School shooting today. At least 3 kids dead.

[Sand Dancer]

Only when you admit that the USA is no different than many other nations, and if the USA learnt from these then the deaths might go down, given the policy of widespread gun ownership is a blatantly failed one. And don't point out the current situation as inevitably being the issue - given that getting from a place where gun ownership is quite normal to another where it isn't so will take a long time no doubt, and with problems along the way. But all the other solutions proffered by those keen on keeping the current situation are mainly just optimistic as to their effects rather than being problem solvers.

Unfortunately the USA is different from all of the other developed nations. We value individuality and freedom instead of community and compassion. We have not quite shaken off the shackles of authoritarian religion yet. Therefore, we can't have nice things that the other countries have. Not yet anyway. Perhaps we will get there in the future.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Unfortunately the USA is different from all of the other developed nations. We value individuality and freedom instead of community and compassion. We have not quite shaken off the shackles of authoritarian religion yet. Therefore, we can't have nice things that the other countries have. Not yet anyway. Perhaps we will get there in the future.

Yes, that is probably true unfortunately as to attitudes. Not sure what might change this.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Yes, that is probably true unfortunately as to attitudes. Not sure what might change this.

Time maybe? As the majority becomes more accepting of helping people instead of judging them, I think it will get better. The last gasps of the theocratic and legalistic are happening right now and we just have to work through that.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Time maybe? As the majority becomes more accepting of helping people instead of judging them, I think it will get better. The last gasps of the theocratic and legalistic are happening right now and we just have to work through that.

We can but hope, but I fear that a civil war might be more likely - as to what many might risk - given the passion that so many have for their weapons. Even given the information in the Pew article (I think posted in this thread) as to nearly half of gun owners having their guns simply for protection - which is perhaps rather a circular argument. Like blaming cyclists for traffic holdups when it is mainly other car drivers. But where to start as to change?

Edited

 

[Sand Dancer]

We can but hope, but I fear that a civil war might be more likely - as to what many might risk - given the passion that so many have for their weapons. Even given the information in the Pew article (I think posted in this thread) as to nearly half of gun owners having their guns simply for protection - which is perhaps rather a circular argument. Like blaming cyclists for traffic holdups when it is mainly other car drivers. But where to start as to change?

Edited

I have no doubt that it will get worse as they get more desperate to keep any control they currently have. First the Capitol, who knows what could be next? In their eyes, they are fully justified in taking back the government in any way they can. To them, that is why the 2nd Amendment exists.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Why not just hand a five year old his own .22 and let him fend for himself? Start them out early on that road to independence. "merica! What could possibly go wrong?

Every warm blooded American knows you give your young uns a cowboy hat and a double holster with two fine six shooters with a liberal supply of caps.

 

[Father Heathen]

I have no doubt that it will get worse as they get more desperate to keep any control they currently have. First the Capitol, who knows what could be next? In their eyes, they are fully justified in taking back the government in any way they can. To them, that is why the 2nd Amendment exists.

I've no doubt that we're instore for some zany Yeehawdist antics.

 

[Shaul]

I read that one of the officers that stopped the shooter was a Marine Corps veteran.
Cop who helped take down Nashville shooter served as Marine grunt

 

[Father Heathen]

Unfortunately the USA is different from all of the other developed nations. We value individuality and freedom instead of community and compassion. We have not quite shaken off the shackles of authoritarian religion yet. Therefore, we can't have nice things that the other countries have. Not yet anyway. Perhaps we will get there in the future.

Individuality and freedom are important, but the problem is that people don't practice responsibility and exercise it recklessly. Liberty is precious, but as a society it's important that we're able to be trust each other with it.

 

[Jose Fly]

This, times 100. (warning, there are swear words)

 

[Subduction Zone]

I am all for the sort of gyn ownership that they have in Great Britain and Germany. You can own your own guns. You can even go hunting You just can't keep them in your house.

 

[Father Heathen]

This, times 100. (warning, there are swear words)

Sad thing is, I doubt those here who need to watch this the most won't.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

A 14 minute response time is pretty good. I seriously doubt there would be any response time that would prevent at least a few deaths or serious injury once someone gets a firearm into a school. Prevention is key.

I agree the response time was good. However, 6 people died, If there was someone at the school with a gun maybe they could have prevented some deaths.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

A lot of folks who died by firearm suicide would likely still be alive if the guns had been unavailable to them at the time. Someone opting a firearm chooses it over a rope or razor for a very good reason: It's quick, needs less planning, and they are less likely to survive then other methods.

Not restricting rope because people use it for suicide and restricting guns because people use the for suicide is inconsistent. Is suicide the reason you want guns more restricted? Guns are not the cause of suicide just like rope isn't. Women use guns for suicide at a vast less rate then men. Women's top suicide choice is poisoning of some kind, among the last is guns.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I agree the response time was good. However, 6 people died, If there was someone at the school with a gun maybe they could have prevented some deaths.

There was someone at the school with a gun. That's why there were any deaths at all.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Why not?? Like it or not the problem exists largely due to "law abiding people". But it is obvious that you realize that your attempt to claim that suicide would not go down massively is false.

I never said this.

This problem is due to people like you. I know that you do not break the law, but most gun crimes are done with stolen guns. If a thief had enough money to waste on a gun he would not have to break the law in the first place.

Not my fault is someone steals my gun. It is the fault of the criminal.

How would you solve the problem? One thing that you should realize is that if your group does not solve its own problem the government will solve it for you. And you probably won't like that.

The government cannot solve it for me. The constitution needs to be amended if you want further gun restrictions or bans. This is a process that involves the states and the citizens.

I don't have the answers but here are some suggestions:

Prosecute criminals that break gun laws now. There are many examples of this not happening.
Better mental health care.
Background check for all gun transactions.
Stop defunding police.
Gun safety classes in schools.

I am open to others.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Okay, do you have any actual knowledge of what is involved in active shooter situations? If no, do you want to learn that? And are you prepared to maybe change your mind, once you learn that is maybe not that simple as you apparently assume?

I don't assume it is simple. Why would a trained officer in a school be a bad thing?

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

To avoid the unnecessary deaths that occur on a daily basis in the US with one gun related tragedy after the other, you don't need to get rid of all of them.

You just need to get rid of most of them and keep a tight grip / eye on those that legally remain.

That's it.

Do that, and your average confused 16-year old kids will no longer be able to get their hands on guns to shoot up their schools.
Toddlers will no longer accidentally shoot their siblings or parents after finding daddy's guns.
Arguments will no longer escalate into shoot-outs only because guns are present.

When weapons are hard to come by, they won't be used often.
It's not exactly rocket science.

So what is your plan?

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

The one time in my life that I had to perform CPR for real, I had to wait about 15 minutes for paramedics to arrive. There weren't any gunmen that needed to be subdued or anything; the first available ambulance was just kinda far from our office when the call came in.

Was that delay the reason my coworker died? Hard to say, but there was that delay and she was never resuscitated.

If your objective really were to keep kids - or anyone - as safe as possible and the top idea on your list is "arm the teachers," then your perspective on reality is so warped that your judgment is completely unreliable.

I am not saying armed teachers. I am asking for trained armed officers in the schools. How is a police officer in the school worse than one 14 minutes away?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I don't assume it is simple. Why would a trained officer in a school be a bad thing?

Because one maybe is not enough for one school.
So to be trained as a single individual to run towards gunfire without knowing the actual tactical situation requires a lot of training and that requires continuous training even when you have the job.
So how long do you think you need to be trained to do that and what does it involve?
So how often do you think you require refresher training and what does it involve?

Bonus question: How come the military developed the buddy system?