Salvation in the scriptures, the born again movement

[Riders]

Sounds like brainwash to me Namaste!

 

[Muffled]

Riders,
I do not know where to start with you. Everything you have stated shows me that you have only a nodding acquaintance with the Holy Scriptures.
First, as to the Scripture you quoted at Romans, 10:9,10. The Bible does not put in one place, all things about a particular subject, or doctrine. You must look throughout the Scriptures to get the whole truth about anything written in the Bible. Some things are written in the Hebrew Scriptures, some in the Greek Scriptures.
Some Scriptures are changed by the context, this is called, modify, complement, fortify. Notice that 2Timothy 3:16,17 we are told that All Scripture is Inspired by God and are good for setting things straight, for teaching, reproof, so that the man of God is completely equipped for every good work.
As I have stated many times in posts; in order to understand the Scriptures, First you must pray for God's Holy Soirit, you must be like a child, in that you listen to what is said and not be too quick to dismiss what is said, intellectually honest. You must know that over time, even though the Scriptures are the same, the teaching about them would become
Adulterated, Acts 20:29,30, 2Peter 2:1-3, Matthew 7:15-20, we are at the time Paul was speaking about at, 2Timoth 4:2-5. Over almost 2,000 years many false teachings have been accepted into what was Christianity, so that it has been completely adulterated, so you must look for the one faith that the Bible mentions, Ephesians 4:3-6. Every one of the main Christian religions have allowed false doctrines into their faith that they are unacceptable to God, and they do not even realize it. That is why Jesus said what he did at Matthew 7:21-23. Think about this, people will gat so far from the real truth that they will Kill God's people believing that they are doing a sacred service to God, John 16:1-3.
True Christians will be persecuted, just as Jesus was, John 15:18-21, 2Timothy 3:12. True Christians are hated by all nations, Matthew 10:22, 24:9. The main way to recognize true Christians, is that they are called by God's name, just as the Bible says they will be, and always have been, Acts 15:14-17. True Christians are not what the majority of people think, 1Corinthians 1:26-31. True Christians are not the ones who are well spoken about by all people, Luke 6:22-26.
Agape!!!

I believe this is erroneous. It does not mean called by God's name it means to call upon God's name. You could name yourselves Megatron or anything else you like and it still won't save you but calling upon God will and even more so if the name called upon is Jesus.

 

[Muffled]

Sounds like brainwash to me Namaste!

I believe you are quite correct. JW's parrot the beliefs of the Governing Body.

 

[12jtartar]

I believe you are quite correct. JW's parrot the beliefs of the Governing Body.

Muffled,
From what I have been able to determine the JWs always have Scriptures from the Bible that prove what they say. That is completely different from others whose posts are filled with Ipse dixits or dogma, or opines, but no Bible Scriptures to prove what they say.
My own belief is that man's word is worthless without authority of Bible Scripture to back up what they say, Psalms 146:3,4, Jeremiah 17:5,7, Proverbs 3:5,6. Think about this Proverbs 28:26, Jeremiah 17:9.
Only in God's word, The Bible, can truth about Doctrines be found, not in trying to Dope Out someting, because we always will confront our Egocentric Predicament.

 

[Muffled]

Muffled,
From what I have been able to determine the JWs always have Scriptures from the Bible that prove what they say. That is completely different from others whose posts are filled with Ipse dixits or dogma, or opines, but no Bible Scriptures to prove what they say.
My own belief is that man's word is worthless without authority of Bible Scripture to back up what they say, Psalms 146:3,4, Jeremiah 17:5,7, Proverbs 3:5,6. Think about this Proverbs 28:26, Jeremiah 17:9.
Only in God's word, The Bible, can truth about Doctrines be found, not in trying to Dope Out someting, because we always will confront our Egocentric Predicament.

I believe JW's parrot the the misinterpretation of scriptures that is promulgated by the hierarchy. I believe no denomination misinterprets scripture more than JW's.

 

[CG Didymus]

Muffled,
From what I have been able to determine the JWs always have Scriptures from the Bible that prove what they say. That is completely different from others whose posts are filled with Ipse dixits or dogma, or opines, but no Bible Scriptures to prove what they say.
My own belief is that man's word is worthless without authority of Bible Scripture to back up what they say, Psalms 146:3,4, Jeremiah 17:5,7, Proverbs 3:5,6. Think about this Proverbs 28:26, Jeremiah 17:9.
Only in God's word, The Bible, can truth about Doctrines be found, not in trying to Dope Out someting, because we always will confront our Egocentric Predicament.

Here's some KJV Bible for you from Mark 16:16-18...
"16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover."
So you can't just believe. You must get dunked in water, sprinkled probably doesn't work. Now, those that do believe and get baptized will have these things to show that they are really followers of Jesus. They will cast out devils, speak in new tongues (not old ones apparently), take up serpents, they'll be immune to poisonous drinks, and they'll be able to heal sick people. You know what... I don't know any true Christians, do you? Oh, and by the way, is Mark 16 scripture or did somebody add that in later? Another thing, somewhere Jesus says if you love him, you'll follow his commands? What are these "commands" and do any Christians follow them? And, if they don't follow them, perfectly, can they say they really love Jesus?

 

[Desert Snake]

This is similar to the ceremony of Baptism. Baptism does not inherently save a person, /the church Baptism. The reason is because, the salvation Baptism, is not the church baptism, it is the Baptism, by Jesus. The church ceremony merely is symbolic of that occurrence, and that is why it is performed in the manner of ''in the name of'', . The church baptism, /and no church is needed for baptism, /, is merely a ceremony, and in the time of Jesus ,,the man manifestation, in Yisrael, was for sin cleansing. Later it became the public ceremony of conversions.

 

[CG Didymus]

This is similar to the ceremony of Baptism. Baptism does not inherently save a person, /the church Baptism. The reason is because, the salvation Baptism, is not the church baptism, it is the Baptism, by Jesus. The church ceremony merely is symbolic of that occurrence, and that is why it is performed in the manner of ''in the name of'', . The church baptism, /and no church is needed for baptism, /, is merely a ceremony, and in the time of Jesus ,,the man manifestation, in Yisrael, was for sin cleansing. Later it became the public ceremony of conversions.

Despite any outward symbolic gesture or requirement, the actual commitment to "obeying" Jesus varies a lot. So much so that it looks as if they aren't trying... like they're "luke warm." It's this lack of commitment that bothers me the most. If those that claim to believe don't believe enough to do as Jesus taught, then why should I. They can say they "believe" all they want, and say their sins have been forgiven, and say they're "born-again." But, the Bible says the believer has to repent also. Because too many "Christians" lead lives no different than a non-believer, it's a pathetic "witness" of the power of the Spirit to change lives.

 

[Riders]

Its magical thinking as well. Alot of times people give their testimony at church and tell about how their lives were autimatically magically changed over night when they became Christian. But use to when i was depressed in my late teens early 20s and was messed up, Id say well obviously Jesus can change my life.

Id listen to people on their tv do the sinners prayer, say the sinners prayer and verbally ask Jesus into my heart repent and prayer to accept Jesus and sit back and wait to see how it would change me. Nothing happened and I got frustrated.

I joined Pentecostals later and well not only had to get saved, but being saved to them was like being in church getting the holy ghost and speaking in tongues, it was different so i went with that. But 1 truth the Pentecostalas have is to change yourself, dress code lfiestyle, but still your doing the work and that idea got into me.

 

[Torah4Yah]

I believe this is erroneous. It does not mean called by God's name it means to call upon God's name. You could name yourselves Megatron or anything else you like and it still won't save you but calling upon God will and even more so if the name called upon is Jesus.

J is only 500 years old
Iesus is how it was originally written
Latin
I.e. = that is
Sus = pig,sow,swine
Look it up

So by what name are you saved?
The pig?
Not a fitting name for the messiah

Yahowsha means Yahowah saves so who saves?

When Yahowsha was crucified he said it is finished. He told no one he was sending Paul because he didn't. If he was sending Paul he would have told us. Paul is the ravenous wolf. Study King Saul he had a demon after him so did Paul 2 Corinthians 12:7. A corrective demon? Didn't know we had such a thing.

Paul said he was set apart in the womb we have 2 others that were Yahowsha and John the Baptist in what way is Paul's early life anything like theirs?

The New Testament has 6 plagerisms from Euripides play Baccus about demons.

He said it is finished everything you need to know was already given.

Torah prophets psalms

Being saved the same way for all time
Moed Miqra, are you going to attend?

 

[Rise]

H
This is not in the bible, it says nothing about accepting Jesus as Lord it says you must believe on him confess him as Lord and the Trinity isn't in there it doesn't say pray to him either or that hes God. ANyways forget I said that, that's another argument. But talking about the born again movement.

That's pretty important. If you have a wrong idea about who Jesus is, how can you have an accurate idea about salvation?

Isaiah 9:6
Isaiah 43:10-11
Matthew 1:23
John 1:1-3
John 8:24
John 10:30-33
John 20:28
1 Timothy 3:16
Titus 2:13
Hebrews 1:8-9
1 Corinthians 8:6
Romans 9:5
2 Peter 1:1
Revelation 1:17-18
Revelation 1:8

Jesus is God.

There is more scripture we could turn to in order to establish that, but that should be sufficient.

My Grandmother Mommie Ingram told me that before the 60s, the way they got saved was believing on Jesus repenting of sins and responding to an alter call to get baptized and join the church, accepting Jesus wasn't a part of it. If you join the church publically your making a public expression of faith on Jesus.

What Peter first preached:

Acts 2:36-38
Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

They also say including my sister who admits she maybe wrong but many wrongly believe United Methodists Catholics Episcapalian, Christian churches and the like wont go to heaven because they don't accept Jesus as lord and offer an Alter Call to accept Jesus.

You don't need to go to the front of an altar to accept Jesus, but you do need to accept Jesus as Lord.

SOme would say that I'm being picky and theres nothing wrong with the idea of using the sinners prayer or accepting Jesus as Lord to express what the bibles talking about that. Ok I agree but theres a problem.

A sinners prayer is not bad in the sense of helping people verbalize the intent of their heart.
Romans 10:9
Luke 6:45

My second problem is this. The born again movement started making people get resaved over and over again and respond to alter calls over and over after they sinned. My Mom quit the Baptist church because she use to respond over and over to alter calls and then go to the beer store on the way home and get drunk( she was a recovering alcoholic) again.

The churches are teaching people to get saved and resaved and its wrong, she said I'm not going back to church and getting resaved which is what they would require me to do I'm already saved.

John 15.
Romans 11
A branch can be broken off from the vine.

We can't say Biblicaly that once someone accepts Jesus that they are guaranteed to always be saved, no matter how their heart changes afterwards.

Nor can we say that anyone who mouths the words is really saved:
Matthew 7:21-23

Having said that, I don't believe you are cut off just because you sinned. The Biblical pattern of God's dealings with Israel does not support that belief. God is longsuffering and patient. Especially if you maintain a repentant heart after God like David did.

If anyone is teaching the need to come to an altar and get resaved after sinning that would be wrong, but I doubt that is what is happening unless this particular church was in great error. However, it would be perfectly acceptable to preach the need for someone to repent of their sin every week, but it is not necessary they go to an altar to repent.

 

[Rise]

The whole business of adults going to church filled Anna with suspicion.
The idea of collective worship went against her sense of private conversations with Mister God.

As for going to church to meet Mister God, that was preposterous.
After all, if Mister God wasn't everywhere, he wasn't anywhere.
For her, churchgoing and "Mister God" talks had no necessary connection.

For her, the whole thing was transparently simple.
You went to church to get the message when you were very little.
Once you had got it, you went out and did something about it.
Keeping on going to church was because you hadn't got the message or didn't understand it or it was "just for swank.”

Hebrews 10:24-25
Acts 2:44
Ephesians 4:11-12

Jesus had a band of followers he taught.
We see the pattern of congregating together in Acts and the letters of Paul.
Jesus addresses churches in Revelation.

We meet for a good reason for meeting together. We stir each other up and we build each other up.

In fact, the great commission itself carries with it an implication of believers being united in groups of some sort when we are commanded to make disciples of all the nations and teaching people.
Matthew 28:18-20
You can't really disciple people if you don't have relationship with them.
There's a reason Jesus discipled people the way He did.

 

[Muffled]

Here's some KJV Bible for you from Mark 16:16-18...
"16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover."
So you can't just believe. You must get dunked in water, sprinkled probably doesn't work. Now, those that do believe and get baptized will have these things to show that they are really followers of Jesus. They will cast out devils, speak in new tongues (not old ones apparently), take up serpents, they'll be immune to poisonous drinks, and they'll be able to heal sick people. You know what... I don't know any true Christians, do you? Oh, and by the way, is Mark 16 scripture or did somebody add that in later? Another thing, somewhere Jesus says if you love him, you'll follow his commands? What are these "commands" and do any Christians follow them? And, if they don't follow them, perfectly, can they say they really love Jesus?

I believe Mark 16 falls within a questionable section of scripture. The foot notes say that it is not safe to found doctrine upon it.

 

[Muffled]

J is only 500 years old
Iesus is how it was originally written
Latin
I.e. = that is
Sus = pig,sow,swine
Look it up

So by what name are you saved?
The pig?
Not a fitting name for the messiah

Yahowsha means Yahowah saves so who saves?

When Yahowsha was crucified he said it is finished. He told no one he was sending Paul because he didn't. If he was sending Paul he would have told us. Paul is the ravenous wolf. Study King Saul he had a demon after him so did Paul 2 Corinthians 12:7. A corrective demon? Didn't know we had such a thing.

Paul said he was set apart in the womb we have 2 others that were Yahowsha and John the Baptist in what way is Paul's early life anything like theirs?

The New Testament has 6 plagerisms from Euripides play Baccus about demons.

He said it is finished everything you need to know was already given.

Torah prophets psalms

Being saved the same way for all time
Moed Miqra, are you going to attend?

I believe there is an expression that covers what you wrote: In a pigs eye.

 

[Torah4Yah]

King James other book for you

The Book of Demonology.

The number one book used in witch craft think Amazon has it for less than $10. Add that to your King James collection.

While talking about names

Strongs 1167
Lord = Baal

Isaiah 30:8-9 tells you what will be scripture for all time.

 

[Brickjectivity]

If I believe in Christianity in any way shape or form its metaphysical Christianity like Unity teaches.

Just curious how they derive metaphysical Christianity. Is there a resource with lots of Bible discussion about it?

 

[BilliardsBall]

Heres a scripture that describes salvation in the bible.

Romans 10:9-10 - That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. (Read More...)


The born again movement started in the 60s according to my grandmother who was born and raised up in the Baptist church. My Mom was too.

The Baptist and Community churches, nondenominational and many bible churches teach that responding to an alter all and accepting Jesus as Lord into your heart is how you get saved and you must respond to an alter call to do it. If you do it at home you must express it as and use the accepting Jesus as Lord into your heart.

This is not in the bible, it says nothing about accepting Jesus as Lord it says you must believe on him confess him as Lord and the Trinity isn't in there it doesn't say pray to him either or that hes God. ANyways forget I said that, that's another argument. But talking about the born again movement.

My Grandmother Mommie Ingram told me that before the 60s, the way they got saved was believing on Jesus repenting of sins and responding to an alter call to get baptized and join the church, accepting Jesus wasn't a part of it. If you join the church publically your making a public expression of faith on Jesus.

SOme would say that I'm being picky and theres nothing wrong with the idea of using the sinners prayer or accepting Jesus as Lord to express what the bibles talking about that. Ok I agree but theres a problem.

A lot of Baptists and many I know believe not so much that you have to belong to the Baptist church but that you have to express yourself at an alter call and use the expression accept Jesus and respond to an alter call to be saved.

They also say including my sister who admits she maybe wrong but many wrongly believe United Methodists Catholics Episcapalian, Christian churches and the like wont go to heaven because they don't accept Jesus as lord and offer an Alter Call to accept Jesus.

SO my problem isn't so much the actual act of using that alter call as much as it is that its just not required by the bible, Faith in Jesus and God saves you.Repentance also.

SO my issue is that they teach it as something that is required to get saved.

My second problem is this. The born again movement started making people get resaved over and over again and respond to alter calls over and over after they sinned. My Mom quit the Baptist church because she use to respond over and over to alter calls and then go to the beer store on the way home and get drunk( she was a recovering alcoholic) again.

And she also wouldn't go back because after she got clean and sober at AA,she accepted the fact that she got saved at the age of 8 and has been saved her whole life, once saved always saved.

The churches are teaching people to get saved and resaved and its wrong, she said I'm not going back to church and getting resaved which is what they would require me to do I'm already saved.

Hi Riders,

I believe Romans 10 is not offering a salvation formula, rather, it is saying "If you are being persecuted for your faith, but confess Jesus, having already trusted Him, you will be fine."

The actual formula for salvation in both testaments is to trust God for salvation. Anyone trusting in Jesus Christ is saved. Your mom need not get "resaved" if she sincerely trusted Christ when she was 8 years old, but she should be in fellowship with a local church if she is saved.

 

[First Baseman]

Heres a scripture that describes salvation in the bible.

Romans 10:9-10 - That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. (Read More...)


The born again movement started in the 60s according to my grandmother who was born and raised up in the Baptist church. My Mom was too.

The Baptist and Community churches, nondenominational and many bible churches teach that responding to an alter all and accepting Jesus as Lord into your heart is how you get saved and you must respond to an alter call to do it. If you do it at home you must express it as and use the accepting Jesus as Lord into your heart.

This is not in the bible, it says nothing about accepting Jesus as Lord it says you must believe on him confess him as Lord and the Trinity isn't in there it doesn't say pray to him either or that hes God. ANyways forget I said that, that's another argument. But talking about the born again movement.

My Grandmother Mommie Ingram told me that before the 60s, the way they got saved was believing on Jesus repenting of sins and responding to an alter call to get baptized and join the church, accepting Jesus wasn't a part of it. If you join the church publically your making a public expression of faith on Jesus.

SOme would say that I'm being picky and theres nothing wrong with the idea of using the sinners prayer or accepting Jesus as Lord to express what the bibles talking about that. Ok I agree but theres a problem.

A lot of Baptists and many I know believe not so much that you have to belong to the Baptist church but that you have to express yourself at an alter call and use the expression accept Jesus and respond to an alter call to be saved.

They also say including my sister who admits she maybe wrong but many wrongly believe United Methodists Catholics Episcapalian, Christian churches and the like wont go to heaven because they don't accept Jesus as lord and offer an Alter Call to accept Jesus.

SO my problem isn't so much the actual act of using that alter call as much as it is that its just not required by the bible, Faith in Jesus and God saves you.Repentance also.

SO my issue is that they teach it as something that is required to get saved.

My second problem is this. The born again movement started making people get resaved over and over again and respond to alter calls over and over after they sinned. My Mom quit the Baptist church because she use to respond over and over to alter calls and then go to the beer store on the way home and get drunk( she was a recovering alcoholic) again.

And she also wouldn't go back because after she got clean and sober at AA,she accepted the fact that she got saved at the age of 8 and has been saved her whole life, once saved always saved.

The churches are teaching people to get saved and resaved and its wrong, she said I'm not going back to church and getting resaved which is what they would require me to do I'm already saved.

If you are a Unitarian Universalism,Pagan,Zen, why do you even care about this?

 

[CG Didymus]

If you are a Unitarian Universalism,Pagan,Zen, why do you even care about this?

Hey First Baseman, You are in a pretty important position for this discussion. How is salvation presented in the RCC? Is it moving toward adopting a more Protestant view of saved by grace and being born-again? Or, is it more centered around the Sacraments? Thanks.

 

[Muffled]

Just curious how they derive metaphysical Christianity. Is there a resource with lots of Bible discussion about it?

I believe I looked it up on Wikipedia and it provides resource information.

I believe I disagree with this major tenet of that group:

1. "We are spiritual beings, created in God’s image. The spirit of God lives within each person; therefore, all people are inherently good."