Salvation in the scriptures, the born again movement

[katiemygirl]

="Riders, post: 4685567, member: 58299"]
The born again movement started in the 60s according to my grandmother who was born and raised up in the Baptist church. My Mom was too.

Hi Rider,

It was actually Jesus who started the "born again" movement about 30 A.D.

Other than that, you are absolutely correct in everything you wrote about alter calls, and getting saved and resaved. We see none of that in the Bible.

Jesus said we must be born again of water and the Spirit to enter the kingdom of heaven. He never said one word about alter calls or accepting Him as your personal Savior to be saved.

He did say we must believe He is the Son of God. He said we must repent. He commanded us to be baptized, not to "join" the Baptist church or any other man made church, but to be ADDED to HIS church by HIM (Acts 2:42, 47).

We know from 1 John chapter 1 that if we walk in the light as Jesus is in the light, His blood continues to cleanse us of our sins, so we don't need to be saved over and over again.

It's good to see you are thinking for yourself. So many just accept what they've been taught, never searching the Scriptures for themselves.

God bless you!

 

[kerndog]

Hi Rider,

It was actually Jesus who started the "born again" movement about 30 A.D.

Other than that, you are absolutely correct in everything you wrote about alter calls, and getting saved and resaved. We see none of that in the Bible.

Jesus said we must be born again of water and the Spirit to enter the kingdom of heaven. He never said one word about alter calls or accepting Him as your personal Savior to be saved.

He did say we must believe He is the Son of God. He said we must repent. He commanded us to be baptized, not to "join" the Baptist church or any other man made church, but to be ADDED to HIS church by HIM (Acts 2:42, 47).

We know from 1 John chapter 1 that if we walk in the light as Jesus is in the light, His blood continues to cleanse us of our sins, so we don't need to be saved over and over again.

It's good to see you are thinking for yourself. So many just accept what they've been taught, never searching the Scriptures for themselves.

God bless you!

Couple questions, What is your definition of what it means to be born again, and who decides if you are born again, you, or God ?...thankyou.

 

[Riders]

Well I don't agree with traditional Christianity anyways, If I believe in Christianity in any way shape or form its metaphysical Christianity like Unity teaches.

However I'm just saying when I was Christian in the UPC church which didn't teach that ;

( they were very legalistic you had to speak in tongues and be baptized in the words to be saved in their church but still some of what they said made sense) I didn't believe in all that.

But one thing I did and Ive never spoke about this before, but when I was in m y early 20s I heard a lot from my sister how Jesus could change my life instantly if Id come to him.

She was a member of Church On The Rock nondenominational church they were legalistic too, kind of insisted on all of us speaking in tongues too.

But seeing stuff on tv about those who had cleaned up their life through Christian broadcasting too, I was messed up then.

I had gotten out of psycho wards was drifting a lot dropped out of high school. Id sit and repeat the sinners prayer to God and accept Jesus and repent for my sins for several hours, and Id wonder I thought accepting Jesus verbally would magically transform kind of like a spell.

You say a spell and incantation and magic things happen I thought Id feel instantly better, but that's the idea I got from churches who teach the sinners prayer and the alter call, repent respond and things start happening.

But the truth is I have to make things happen, I have to do the work to change things and get up and change things. Turning to Jesus or any religion isn't a magic answer.

I need to change things for myself.This is another thing I don't like about the mentality, it gives a false idea of reality like Jesus and God are magic jeanies who can grant wishes.

 

[katiemygirl]

Couple questions, What is your definition of what it means to be born again, and who decides if you are born again, you, or God ?...thankyou.

The Bible definition of born again is made new.

It is the Lord who makes us new. It's not from man.

 

[katiemygirl]

Well I don't agree with traditional Christianity anyways, If I believe in Christianity in any way shape or form its metaphysical Christianity like Unity teaches.

However I'm just saying when I was Christian in the UPC church which didn't teach that ;

( they were very legalistic you had to speak in tongues and be baptized in the words to be saved in their church but still some of what they said made sense) I didn't believe in all that.

But one thing I did and Ive never spoke about this before, but when I was in m y early 20s I heard a lot from my sister how Jesus could change my life instantly if Id come to him.

She was a member of Church On The Rock nondenominational church they were legalistic too, kind of insisted on all of us speaking in tongues too.

But seeing stuff on tv about those who had cleaned up their life through Christian broadcasting too, I was messed up then.

I had gotten out of psycho wards was drifting a lot dropped out of high school. Id sit and repeat the sinners prayer to God and accept Jesus and repent for my sins for several hours, and Id wonder I thought accepting Jesus verbally would magically transform kind of like a spell.

You say a spell and incantation and magic things happen I thought Id feel instantly better, but that's the idea I got from churches who teach the sinners prayer and the alter call, repent respond and things start happening.

But the truth is I have to make things happen, I have to do the work to change things and get up and change things. Turning to Jesus or any religion isn't a magic answer.

I need to change things for myself.This is another thing I don't like about the mentality, it gives a false idea of reality like Jesus and God are magic jeanies who can grant wishes.

You were right to leave those who insisted you speak in tongues.

But you are wrong to say you can lean upon yourself. Yes, it takes effort on your part, but it is the Lord who will lead you through the change.

I wish you the best Rider.

 

[Riders]

Well my Mom was a Christian who went to her AA meetings instead of church, she had 34 years of sobriety.She always said you had to be willing to let God change you so even though she believed God was saving us and doing the changing she also said you had to get and do the work and be willing to change it too.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Well my Mom was a Christian who went to her AA meetings instead of church, she had 34 years of sobriety.She always said you had to be willing to let God change you so even though she believed God was saving us and doing the changing she also said you had to get and do the work and be willing to change it too.

'do the work and be willing to change it ' sounds like the counsel given at Ephesians 4:23-25; Ephesians 4:26-28 to put on the new personality. 1 Corinthians 5:7 <- do the work

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The Bible definition of born again is made new.
It is the Lord who makes us new. It's not from man.

Yes, Jesus did Not teach that it is up to man to choose to experience the new birth or not, because the Greek expression translated into English as born again can also be rendered as ' should be born from above '. Thus the new birth originates from above (heaven) or from the Father. So, from ' above ' shows the understanding one can Not cause his own new birth.
Just as we did Not cause or choose our physical birth, a person can only experience a new birth if God (our Heavenly Father) causes a new birth - John 1:13; 1 Peter 1:3

Jesus was Not giving a command (or a new commandment as John 13:34-35 is) but Jesus was stating a fact. Stating a fact as a requirement is.
Sometimes we hear that in order to attend a school one must be a resident or he can Not attend.
So, by Jesus stating what he said, then that is the requirement for one to enter into the kingdom of God.
So, then what is the purpose of the new birth ?

 

[kerndog]

Yes, Jesus did Not teach that it is up to man to choose to experience the new birth or not, because the Greek expression translated into English as born again can also be rendered as ' should be born from above '. Thus the new birth originates from above (heaven) or from the Father. So, from ' above ' shows the understanding one can Not cause his own new birth.
Just as we did Not cause or choose our physical birth, a person can only experience a new birth if God (our Heavenly Father) causes a new birth - John 1:13; 1 Peter 1:3

Jesus was Not giving a command (or a new commandment as John 13:34-35 is) but Jesus was stating a fact. Stating a fact as a requirement is.
Sometimes we hear that in order to attend a school one must be a resident or he can Not attend.
So, by Jesus stating what he said, then that is the requirement for one to enter into the kingdom of God.
So, then what is the purpose of the new birth ?

Well done !

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Well done !

Thank you kerndog for your ' well done! '
I wonder if any will have any comments as to the purpose, or even the process, of the new birth or being born again ?

 

[kerndog]

Thank you kerndog for your ' well done! '
I wonder if any will have any comments as to the purpose, or even the process, of the new birth or being born again ?

Your welcome indeed, this is a very interesting topic, that many dont fully understand what is involved, and what the purpose of it is !

 

[Muffled]

Seems you are not familiar with "once saved, always saved" theology.

I believe I am familiar with it but I am not totally convinced that is has merit. I think it is always plausible to say that those who have become apostate never were saved. For instance people in the UCC who have accepted homosexuality are apostate but it is also unlikely that they accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior and that rather they think a baby baptism causes repentance from sin and automatically gives salvation.

 

[Muffled]

Well, lets look at this "THEORY" , Lets look at what the bible state on this "THEORY" Assuming the bible is the basis for your beliefs. I have had a number of pastors try to use the book of Romans and some of Pauls words there. So, let me ask you , why do you think this is a mere theory ?

I go by the words of Jesus but I am sure Paul says the same thing a little differently.

Joh 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same beareth much fruit: for apart from me ye can do nothing.

 

[McBell]

I believe I am familiar with it but I am not totally convinced that is has merit. I think it is always plausible to say that those who have become apostate never were saved. For instance people in the UCC who have accepted homosexuality are apostate but it is also unlikely that they accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior and that rather they think a baby baptism causes repentance from sin and automatically gives salvation.

Your ego knows no bounds.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Heres a scripture that describes salvation in the bible.

Romans 10:9-10 - That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. (Read More...)

Therefore? I see little reason to accept some line by Paul as holy writ. This thread may be more appropriate to the Christianity DIR where your audience shares your basic assumptions.

 

[Muffled]

Well my original post wasn't saying repentance isn't required. Repentence and belief and baptism although I'm not Christian.

But if your going by the bible that's it and its also say faith without works is dead. But the alter call to accept Jesus and the sinners prayer is no where in the bible.

I believe there is not much written about the inner working of a church service but that is the null hypothesis. Just because it wasn't mentioned doesn't mean it didn't exist. I do believe it is a phenomenon coming out of the Reforrnation recognizing that those attending church are not all saved. A call to faith is quite common in scripture but usually outside the church and maybe an unsaved person wouldn't have been caught dead in a church in the beginning. Even so Paul recognizes that there can be wolves among the sheep.

I believe there is plenty of Biblical basis for the sinners prayer. I believe one does not have to have the exact words written in the Bible for it to be valid.

 

[Muffled]

Your ego knows no bounds.

I believe my ego knows its place but you evidently do not.

 

[McBell]

I believe my ego knows its place but you evidently do not.

Interesting that you cannot see what you yourself post.
No worries.
I only wanted to point it out.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can not make it drink.

 

[Muffled]

Interesting that you cannot see what you yourself post.
No worries.
I only wanted to point it out.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can not make it drink.

Are you trying to be inscrutable on purpose?

 

[12jtartar]

Heres a scripture that describes salvation in the bible.

Romans 10:9-10 - That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. (Read More...)


The born again movement started in the 60s according to my grandmother who was born and raised up in the Baptist church. My Mom was too.

The Baptist and Community churches, nondenominational and many bible churches teach that responding to an alter all and accepting Jesus as Lord into your heart is how you get saved and you must respond to an alter call to do it. If you do it at home you must express it as and use the accepting Jesus as Lord into your heart.

This is not in the bible, it says nothing about accepting Jesus as Lord it says you must believe on him confess him as Lord and the Trinity isn't in there it doesn't say pray to him either or that hes God. ANyways forget I said that, that's another argument. But talking about the born again movement.

My Grandmother Mommie Ingram told me that before the 60s, the way they got saved was believing on Jesus repenting of sins and responding to an alter call to get baptized and join the church, accepting Jesus wasn't a part of it. If you join the church publically your making a public expression of faith on Jesus.

SOme would say that I'm being picky and theres nothing wrong with the idea of using the sinners prayer or accepting Jesus as Lord to express what the bibles talking about that. Ok I agree but theres a problem.

A lot of Baptists and many I know believe not so much that you have to belong to the Baptist church but that you have to express yourself at an alter call and use the expression accept Jesus and respond to an alter call to be saved.

They also say including my sister who admits she maybe wrong but many wrongly believe United Methodists Catholics Episcapalian, Christian churches and the like wont go to heaven because they don't accept Jesus as lord and offer an Alter Call to accept Jesus.

SO my problem isn't so much the actual act of using that alter call as much as it is that its just not required by the bible, Faith in Jesus and God saves you.Repentance also.

SO my issue is that they teach it as something that is required to get saved.

My second problem is this. The born again movement started making people get resaved over and over again and respond to alter calls over and over after they sinned. My Mom quit the Baptist church because she use to respond over and over to alter calls and then go to the beer store on the way home and get drunk( she was a recovering alcoholic) again.

And she also wouldn't go back because after she got clean and sober at AA,she accepted the fact that she got saved at the age of 8 and has been saved her whole life, once saved always saved.

The churches are teaching people to get saved and resaved and its wrong, she said I'm not going back to church and getting resaved which is what they would require me to do I'm already saved.

Riders,
I do not know where to start with you. Everything you have stated shows me that you have only a nodding acquaintance with the Holy Scriptures.
First, as to the Scripture you quoted at Romans, 10:9,10. The Bible does not put in one place, all things about a particular subject, or doctrine. You must look throughout the Scriptures to get the whole truth about anything written in the Bible. Some things are written in the Hebrew Scriptures, some in the Greek Scriptures.
Some Scriptures are changed by the context, this is called, modify, complement, fortify. Notice that 2Timothy 3:16,17 we are told that All Scripture is Inspired by God and are good for setting things straight, for teaching, reproof, so that the man of God is completely equipped for every good work.
As I have stated many times in posts; in order to understand the Scriptures, First you must pray for God's Holy Soirit, you must be like a child, in that you listen to what is said and not be too quick to dismiss what is said, intellectually honest. You must know that over time, even though the Scriptures are the same, the teaching about them would become
Adulterated, Acts 20:29,30, 2Peter 2:1-3, Matthew 7:15-20, we are at the time Paul was speaking about at, 2Timoth 4:2-5. Over almost 2,000 years many false teachings have been accepted into what was Christianity, so that it has been completely adulterated, so you must look for the one faith that the Bible mentions, Ephesians 4:3-6. Every one of the main Christian religions have allowed false doctrines into their faith that they are unacceptable to God, and they do not even realize it. That is why Jesus said what he did at Matthew 7:21-23. Think about this, people will gat so far from the real truth that they will Kill God's people believing that they are doing a sacred service to God, John 16:1-3.
True Christians will be persecuted, just as Jesus was, John 15:18-21, 2Timothy 3:12. True Christians are hated by all nations, Matthew 10:22, 24:9. The main way to recognize true Christians, is that they are called by God's name, just as the Bible says they will be, and always have been, Acts 15:14-17. True Christians are not what the majority of people think, 1Corinthians 1:26-31. True Christians are not the ones who are well spoken about by all people, Luke 6:22-26.
Agape!!!