Revenge of the Reality Based Community

[Revoltingest]

*Gasp!* An administrator was too busy to talk to him at that time? What are they hiding? Fascists!
I enjoy a good whack at academics as much as the next intellectually insecure person. But why do I get the feeling that this film is going to be more concerned about bashing liberalism than about genuine free expression? Why do I get the feeling that Brigham Young or Liberty University won't be listed front-and-center as the most glaring examples of universities which indoctrinate students and are opposed to intellectual freedom?

I'm sure it's a compelling documentary. It has pounding music & lots'o quick sound bites & gotchas.
But I'm familiar enuf with big 'progressive' university academic politics to see the heavy handed
control they exercise over staff & students. And no doubt, right leaning institutions practice the
same thing...just of a different political or religious flavor.

 

[Revoltingest]

I liked the man - people of principle are (now) very rare in politics. His original views were way below undergraduate, but he at least sticks to some sort of sense. I think the difficulty is that most conservatives are simply used as cannon-fodder by the extremely rich, who regard them, really, with contempt. I think that is what is the trouble with conservatism - a natural hanging-on to what your remember as good is exploited by the totally uncaring.

Whether I agree with the fella or not, it is (as you point out) good to go where your
principals lead you, without being stuck in a particular outlook without questioning it.
Although now, it seems he might use the poor instead of conservatives as cannon fodder.

 

[Daemon Sophic]

This sort of equivalency argument is popular, false, and misleading. There may be similar problems on both the Left and the Right, but at this point in time, the Right is far more intellectually insular than the Left. That may change in the future, but it's the case for now. Read The Republican Brain by Chris Mooney. You should educate yourself before you make such equivalency arguments.

:clap: Hear, hear!
The whole 'false equivalence' or 'fair and balanced' BS is far far beneath what real journalists should be required to do.

related articles....
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/16/public-editor/16pubed.html?_r=0

An End to False Equivalency? - Forbes

 

[Revoltingest]

:clap: Hear, hear!
The whole 'false equivalence' or 'fair and balanced' BS is far far beneath what real journalists should be required to do.

related articles....
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/16/public-editor/16pubed.html?_r=0

An End to False Equivalency? - Forbes

It isn't enuf to just trumpet "false equivalency", as though its mere invocation will make the argument. Certainly, there are examples
of genuine false equivalency, such as the drive to teach both evolution & creationism in public schools. So we see that the phenomenon exists.
But the claims in the OP & linked article don't make this case convincingly. (The author's anecdotal evidence is merely one person's perspective.)
Now, it could very well be that there could be measurable intellectual conformism differences between particular organizations of leftish & rightish
bents. Is the right worse than the left, or is it the reverse? We might not even benefit from knowing, since even a minor difference would make
the winning side unbearably smug. (Just look at the thread's title....."reality based community". It bespeaks the presumption of sole possession
of The Truth.)

 

[LuisDantas]

You make it appear a lot more controversial that it seems to be warranted, Revolting.

 

[Revoltingest]

You make it appear a lot more controversial that it seems to be warranted, Revolting.

My excuse is that I have a poor grip on reality.
I'm not aware of how I make it appear, so you could be right.

 

[Falvlun]

I read the whole thing but what struck me most was how full of himself this guy was. And that he can't seem to write any books that people want to buy.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I thought it was an interesting read.

And tbh, my experience with working in a midwest state university has been sometimes good (the people there can be a tight-knit family), but also has its fair share of tenured professors acting as department chairs who have no interest in working with dissidents.

This has been my experience as a grad student, and as a faculty member.

 

[Apex]

*Gasp!* An administrator was too busy to talk to him at that time? What are they hiding? Fascists!

I enjoy a good whack at academics as much as the next intellectually insecure person. But why do I get the feeling that this film is going to be more concerned about bashing liberalism than about genuine free expression? Why do I get the feeling that Brigham Young or Liberty University won't be listed front-and-center as the most glaring examples of universities which indoctrinate students and are opposed to intellectual freedom?

Or you could, I don't know, actually watch the film, allowing you to make a truly informed opinion without relying solely upon your bias?

 

[Sunstone]

You fall prey to the popular false false equivalency argument. It is quite common for people of a particular persuasion (either left or right...or other)
to believe that they have "The Truth" & that their way is "The Way". And of course when one has The Truth, those who would disagree are obviously
wrong, out of touch with reality, & sometimes just plain evil. A world of such black & white issues is devoid of nuance, similarities & shades of gray.
To bring up common traits shared by all humans is to breach this chasm between the good folk (us) & the backsliding evildoers (them), & cannot be
tolerated. The cry of "False equivalency!" is wielded to smite those who threaten to dislodge the planks from the eyes of the righteous.

The very insular traits you see on the right, I also see on the left. Their universities, media, news outlets, think tanks etc will march in lock step just
as do right wing outfits. You will believe that you are correct, & that I'm wrong, but until the day arrives when we have a reliable intellectual insularity
meter quantify the differences, alls we gots is our opinions.

You sure seem in a hurry to demonize anyone who points out that equivalency arguments are false. Nice going.

 

[Revoltingest]

You sure seem in a hurry to demonize anyone who points out that equivalency arguments are false. Nice going.

Tsk, tsk...your response to me was the first to make about the person instead of the issue.
(Remember your advice about how I needed to educate myself?)
No hurrying or demonization....just leisurely & mirthful disagreement.

 

[Sunstone]

Now, now...re-read your post to me, & you'll see that you were the first to make about the person instead of the issue. (Remember your advice about how I needed to educate myself?) And no, I'm not in a hurry. I'm disagreeing at a leisurely pace.

It is hardly demonizing to suggest that someone read a book.

 

[Revoltingest]

It is hardly demonizing to suggest that someone read a book.

This would be true, were it not for your earlier language....

You should educate yourself before you make such equivalency arguments.

This statement suggests a presumption that unlike you, I lack the education to judge the issue.
Note that I don't address your education. Let's just stick to the issues, which is the goal of RF.

 

[Sunstone]

This statement suggests a presumption that unlike you, I lack the education to judge the issue.

Anyone who indulges in false equivalencies is in my opinion very much in need of an education on that issue. And I would say the same for myself if I myself indulged in them. Why don't you just read the book I recommended?

 

[Revoltingest]

Anyone who indulges in false equivalencies is in my opinion very much in need of an education on that issue. And I would say the same for myself if I myself indulged in them. Why don't you just read the book I recommended?

Meh....my false equivalency is prettier than your false dichotomy.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

We will have to agree to disagree. The university setting appears every bit as stifling as think tanks to me.

Well I've been in the university setting for years and I would be shocked if a professor was fired for switching from praise to criticism of the president. But it comes as no surprise the two guys mentioned in the OP were fired by think tanks for precisely that. Promoting an ideology, not academic freedom, is what think tanks are designed to do.

But even more appropriate,
I'll wager your left pinky that leftish think tanks are exactly as controlling as rightish think tanks. My evidence? Tis just human nature to
behave that way when a group with a shared agenda fights the good fight against disbelievers. Let's look at MSNBC & Fox News....what
are the differences? There is only one, ie, that they're political opposites. Other than that, they both brilliantly exhibit the many faults
of human nature & thought.

For the third time: I agree. You are right. I would only add that in the past few years, right-wing think tanks became so insular that it became self-destructive. I have no reason to doubt that in the future, they will learn their lesson and it will be the left-wing think tanks that take a turn towards being insular (moreso than usual, I mean).

Or you could, I don't know, actually watch the film, allowing you to make a truly informed opinion without relying solely upon your bias?

I watched the clip you posted. I can't be sure that it's a representative sample of the entire film, but then again, I won't be able to get those precious minutes of my life back, either. So I'm in a bit of a pickle.

 

[Copernicus]

I watched the clip you posted. I can't be sure that it's a representative sample of the entire film, but then again, I won't be able to get those precious minutes of my life back, either. So I'm in a bit of a pickle.

LOL! I can't give more frubals to you yet, but this so deserves them. :bow:

 

[LuisDantas]

Meh....my false equivalency is prettier than your false dichotomy.

Interesting that you say so, because it is a reducionist dichomoty that makes your equivalency even possible.

 

[Shuddhasattva]

Bored me titless. I exited after a third of that godawful song and dance. Disillusionment and infighting, whoopie.

 

[Revoltingest]

Interesting that you say so, because it is a reducionist dichomoty that makes your equivalency even possible.

I'm glad I don't understand that.
(Because if I respond, I run the risk of creating more tension. I really don't want to
make other posters cross. I try not to be an unpleasant thorn in Sunstone's side.)