Religious Borrowing and then Theft

[sooda]

I believe the messianic age will include the third temple.
As a Christian, I used to wonder why there was so much description of a future temple in the scriptures when Jesus was said to be the ultimate sacrifice and the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. So what reason would there be for another temple? Now my understanding is that the OT sacrifices pointed forward toward Jesus Christ and His sacrifice on the cross and that the future temple sacrifices during His millennial reign on the earth from Jerusalem, will point back as reminders of His great sacrifice of love and salvation.

The book of Revelation says there is no Temple.

 

[sooda]

King James Bible
And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

Revelation 21:22

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I believe Judaism did the same thing with Sumerian, Babylonian, Canaanite, Ugarit texts.

You would be wrong.

 

[sooda]

You would be wrong.

There's plenty of evidence that they did borrow their mythos from much older surrounding cultures.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

There's plenty of evidence that they did borrow their mythos from much older surrounding cultures.

You really need to pay more attention. Let's review.

In response to ...

It's one thing for a religion to borrow concepts from other faiths, that happens all the time; but what about those faiths that take directly from others and what looks like to many, just a dress up game? ...

... we have:

I believe Judaism did the same thing with Sumerian, Babylonian, Canaanite, Ugarit texts.

You would be wrong.

Your understanding of this interchange is, apparently, every bit as shallow and thoughtless as is your understanding of the Hebrew text. To be completely honest with you, it's more than a little pathetic.

 

[sooda]

You really need to pay more attention. Let's review.

In response to ...

​

... we have:

​

Your understanding of this interchange is, apparently, every bit as shallow and thoughtless as is your understanding of the Hebrew text. To be completely honest with you, it's more than a little pathetic.

Even the 4,000 clay tablets found in Bahrain are older than Judaism.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Even the 4,000 clay tablets found in Bahrain are older than Judaism.

Source? ...

Therefore? ...​

 

[shunyadragon]

Your understanding of this interchange is, apparently, every bit as shallow and thoughtless as is your understanding of the Hebrew text. To be completely honest with you, it's more than a little pathetic.

Not a meaningful coherent response. Try again and do not be so pathetic this time.

 

[shunyadragon]

Source? ...

Therefore? ...​

Therefore, the Hebrew texts are very recent without older provenance, and the evidence of sources indicate that the Hebrews used Babylonian, Canaanite, and Ugait sources in their compiling the Pentateuch. The oldest source are Sumerian texts.

 

[sooda]

Source? ...

Therefore? ...​

Here's a good source.

The history of Bahrain dates back to ancient history. Bahrain was the central location of the ancient Dilmun civilization. Bahrain's strategic location in the Persian Gulf has brought rule and influence from mostly the Persians, Sumerians, Assyrians, Babylonians, Portuguese, the Arabs, and the British.

History of Bahrain - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Bahrain

Are you familiar with the work of Noah Samuel Kramer? He spent 50 years translating tablets from Mesopotamia that are much older than Genesis or Judaism

The Ugaritic tablets discovered in Ras Shamra, Syria are also older.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Therefore, the Hebrew texts are very recent without older provenance, ...

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Here's a good source.

Indeed.

 

[sooda]

Indeed.

If the tablets at Sumer and Babylon and the tablets at Dilmun and Ugarit had not been found, we may never have known.

All these cuneiform tablets confirm the ancient myths and trade relations that predate Judaism.

Ugaritic Texts Show Possible Influences on Abraham
Guide to the Beliefs and Religions of the Worldugaritic-texts-show-possible-influences-abraham-117888
Ugaritic Texts and Abraham The patriarch Abraham is known as the father of the world's three great monotheistic religions: Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. For centuries his faithfulness to one god at a time when people worshiped many deities has been regarded as a …

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

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[sooda]

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LOLOL..

Arab trade before Islam.

 

[shunyadragon]

 

[shunyadragon]

Indeed.

Stone walling, and Duck, Bob and Weave big time.

 

[shunyadragon]

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[Terry Sampson]

It is natural for faith communities to adapt and align themselves as closely as possible with the culture of the communities they reside without compromising their core beliefs.

Random, speculative thoughts:

• There's a "then", a "now", and the transition from the former to the latter.
  • A pre-crucifixion "Then" , IMO, involved
    1. Jesus, and
       
    2. and his core group of selected disciples,
    3. possibly a very small group of Jesus' "devotees"/followers who actually took advantage of every opportunity to spend time with Jesus and/or his disciples,
    4. a much larger group of people who were NOT as transient as Jesus and who continued to maintain their individual, separate ties to their local communities while being/becoming "committed" to giving Jesus and/or his disciples an audience as often as practically possible; and
    5. an even larger, much more fluid group of "Jesus-is-in-town" folks.who also would have maintained their individual separate ties to their local communities, but not increasing
  • An immediate post-crucifixion "Then",
    • which would have had a huge effect on Group 5, diminishing it substantially, and
      
    • which would have had some effect on Group 4, diminishing it somewhat, and
      
    • which would have had some effect on Group 3, leaving it vulnerable, at least initially, to doubts, hopes, speculations, and reports of sightings of Jesus, and
    • which left the surviving disciples [Note: Judas Iscariot committed suicide prior to Jesus' resurrection], increasingly emboldened, especially after personal encounters with the resurrected Jesus.
  • So what?
    • The core beliefs of the surviving disciples, the small group of transient followers, and the dedicated non-transient followers, IMO, should have fizzled out after Jesus' crucifixion if the resurrection never happened.
      
    • The amalgamation of the pre-crucifixion Jewish culture and the post-christian core beliefs generated conflict, as evangelization increased. Cf.:
      • Paul consulting the early Christian elders in Jerusalem [Acts 15] and
      • Paul confronting Peter and the Judaizers [Galations 2].
  • "Now", almost 2,000 years after Jesus' crucifixion, entombment, and resurrection, innovation and "restoration" movements abound.
    • As I understand it, a Jew can be
      • a Jew and an atheist/agnostic (e.g. a Humanist Jew),
      • a theistic, non-Jew Jew [ ], or
      • a traditional/Judaic Jew; or
      • a Gentile convert to Judaism, or
        
      • an oddball.

 

[shunyadragon]

Abraham seen G-d as Reality.

Possibly, but that is not the point, and even if true it does not reflect the reality of the origin of the Pentateuch in real history. In reality this a religious claim and not rooted in objective fact.