Religious Affiliation & Side Taken Regarding Israel

[Revoltingest]

I notice a correlation between religious affiliation
& stance taken in the Israel vs Palestinian war.
Christians, Jews, Muslims, & atheists tend to
particular sides.
But there are interesting outliers of opinion.

https://www.npr.org/2023/12/22/1221128897/masha-gessen-essay-israel-gaza-germany-hannah-arendt-prize

Excerpted....
Prominent Russian-American journalist Masha Gessen received a prestigious award for political thought over the weekend, in a ceremony that almost didn't happen due to backlash over their recent writings on Israel-Gaza.

Israel's air-and-ground assault on Gaza has killed more than 20,000 people in the 10 weeks since the Hamas-led attack on Israel killed some 1,200 people and took more than 240 others hostage.

Gessen, who is Jewish and whose family lost loved ones in the Holocaust, has been criticized for a New Yorker essay published earlier this month in which they likened the Gaza Strip to the WWII-era ghettos that Nazis developed to segregate and control Jewish people in occupied Europe.

Gessen argues in the essay that treating the Holocaust as a "singular event," unlike anything that has occurred before or after in history, not only is incorrect but makes it impossible to learn lessons from the Holocaust that are needed to prevent future genocides.

The term "would have given us the language to describe what is happening in Gaza now. The ghetto is being liquidated," they wrote, referring to the process in which Jews were either killed in ghettos or forced out to concentration camps.

Gessen notes there are key differences between the two: The Nazi claim that ghettos were necessary to protect non-Jews from disease "had no basis in reality," while Israel's stance that the isolation of Gaza is necessary to protect against Palestinian terrorist attacks "stems from actual and repeated acts of violence."

"Yet both claims propose that an occupying authority can choose to isolate, immiserate — and now, mortally endanger — an entire population of people in the name of protecting its own," they contend.

 

[Revoltingest]

I'll add that "holocaust" is an ancient word.
"The Holocaust" is one of many, holocausts.
And even the proper noun isn't owned by
any one group.

Holocaust victims - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Excerpted....

Victims	Murdered	Source
Jews	6 million	[1]
Gentiles (non-Jews)
Soviet civilians	4.5 million	[2]
Soviet POWs	3.3 million	[3][1]
Poles	1.8 million	[4][5][1]
Serbs	More than 310,000	[6][7]
Disabled people	270,000	[8]
Romani	250,000–500,000	[1][9]
Freemasons	80,000	[10][11]
Slovenes	20,000–25,000	[12]
Homosexuals	5,000–15,000	[13]
Spanish Republicans	3,500	[14]
Jehovah's Witnesses	1,700	[1][15]
Total	17 million

 

[Bthoth]

I'll add that "holocaust" is an ancient word.
"The Holocaust" is one of many, holocausts.
And even the proper noun isn't owned by
any one group.

Holocaust victims - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Excerpted....

Victims	Murdered	Source
Jews	6 million	[1]
Gentiles (non-Jews)
Soviet civilians	4.5 million	[2]
Soviet POWs	3.3 million	[3][1]
Poles	1.8 million	[4][5][1]
Serbs	More than 310,000	[6][7]
Disabled people	270,000	[8]
Romani	250,000–500,000	[1][9]
Freemasons	80,000	[10][11]
Slovenes	20,000–25,000	[12]
Homosexuals	5,000–15,000	[13]
Spanish Republicans	3,500	[14]
Jehovah's Witnesses	1,700	[1][15]
Total	17 million

That word is greek and its meaning is 'burnt offering'.

5 And they shall burn them upon the altar, for a holocaust, putting fire under the wood: for an oblation of most sweet savour to the Lord.

Bible Gateway passage: Leviticus 3 - Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition

And if his oblation be a sacrifice of peace offerings, and he will offer of the herd, whether male or female, he shall offer them without blemish before the Lord. And he shall lay his hand upon the head of his victim, which shall be slain in the entry of the tabernacle of the testimony, and the...

www.biblegateway.com

The very ritual that is required by the right wing of israel:

""The Temple Institute, known in Hebrew as Machon HaMikdash, is an organization in Israel focusing on establishing the Third Temple. Its long-term aims are to build the third Jewish temple on the Temple Mount, on the site occupied by the Dome of the Rock, and to reinstate animal sacrificial worship. """

Oh the irony:

1..... Israelis use Holocaust as a noun to describe an atrocity of ww2

2..... the very reason israel exists in palestine, is for the location (mount) to restart holocaust offerings.

 

[Revoltingest]

I've known some liberal Christians on RF
for many years. This liberalism is out the
window regarding Israel. They have
humanity for Jews, but none for Muslims.
Jesus the peacemaker can't compete with
tribal bigotry, paranoia, & hatred.

 

[InChrist]

I've known some liberal Christians on RF
for many years. This liberalism is out the
window regarding Israel. They have
humanity for Jews, but none for Muslims.
Jesus the peacemaker can't compete with
tribal bigotry, paranoia, & hatred.

I don’t think it’s that anyone doesn’t have humanitarian feelings or concerns for Muslims. Rather, I believe the concern is about the terrorist Muslims whose goal is to annihilate Israel. I don’t think it makes much sense for an atheist to bring up Jesus. Any Christian, liberal or conservative, who has even an elementary understanding of the scriptures knows that Israel holds a special place in God’s historical and eternal plan. Any attempt by anyone, Hamas or otherwise, to destroy Israel and take Jerusalem is a direct attack against the Creator. At least that is my view.
As you can see from the quotes and linked article, Hamas and many Muslim scholars do not care about the humanity of the people in Gaza, but continue to indoctrinate hatred and violence into them and use them as tools to gain financial aid from around the globe, not for humanitarian reasons, but for the purpose of destroying Israel.

“Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh spoke at a conference of the International Union of Muslim Scholars (IUMS) in Doha, Qatar, which was aired on Al-Jazeera Network (Qatar) on January 9, 2024, about the role of Islamic scholars worldwide in the wake of October 7. He said: "We should hold on to the victory that took place on October 7 and build upon it," and he added: "Time is on our side." Haniyeh said that Islamic scholars should advocate for the Palestinians in their respective countries and that donations to Gaza were not humanitarian aid, but "financial Jihad." He stated that "the time has come for the Jihad of the swords."


“Like the scholars have mentioned, there are fatwas to this effect, and there are motivating statements. There is verbal Jihad, which is Jihad by the tongue, but indeed, the time has come for Jihad of the swords. This is the battle for Jerusalem and the Al-Aqsa Mosque, and not the battle of the Palestinian people, or Gaza, or the people in Gaza.”

Hamas Leader Ismail Haniyeh: We Should Hold On To The Moment Of The Victory Of October 7 And Build Upon It; Time Is On Our Side; Donations To Gaza Are Not 'Humanitarian Aid' But 'Financial Jihad'

Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh spoke at a conference of the International Union of Muslim Scholars (IUMS) in Doha, Qatar, which was aired on Al-Jazeera Network (Qatar) on January 9, 2024, about the role of Islamic scholars worldwide in the wake of October 7.

www.memri.org

 

[Bthoth]

I don’t think it’s that anyone doesn’t have humanitarian feelings or concerns for Muslims. Rather, I believe the concern is about the terrorist Muslims whose goal is to annihilate Israel.

That's an irresponsible claim. Complete rubbish built on hate.

I don’t think it makes much sense for an atheist to bring up Jesus. Any Christian, liberal or conservative, who has even an elementary understanding of the scriptures knows that Israel holds a special place in God’s historical and eternal plan.

Correct. What is real is what the unveiling is about.

Any attempt by anyone, Hamas or otherwise, to destroy Israel and take Jerusalem is a direct attack against the Creator. At least that is my view.

Quite the opposite. Idolatry for the location is the attrocity.

As you can see from the quotes and linked article, Hamas and many Muslim scholars do not care about the humanity of the people in Gaza, but continue to indoctrinate into hatred and violence and use them as tools to gain financial aid from around the globe, not for humanitarian reasons, for the purpose of destroying Israel.

Nice narrative.

“Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh spoke at a conference of the International Union of Muslim Scholars (IUMS) in Doha, Qatar, which was aired on Al-Jazeera Network (Qatar) on January 9, 2024, about the role of Islamic scholars worldwide in the wake of October 7. He said: "We should hold on to the victory that took place on October 7 and build upon it," and he added: "Time is on our side." Haniyeh said that Islamic scholars should advocate for the Palestinians in their respective countries and that donations to Gaza were not humanitarian aid, but "financial Jihad." He stated that "the time has come for the Jihad of the swords."

IS that why israel is murdering so many civilians?

“Like the scholars have mentioned, there are fatwas to this effect, and there are motivating statements. There is verbal Jihad, which is Jihad by the tongue, but indeed, the time has come for Jihad of the swords. This is the battle for Jerusalem and the Al-Aqsa Mosque, and not the battle of the Palestinian people, or Gaza, or the people in Gaza.”

I get it, idolatry for the city of blood has been ongoing.

Hamas Leader Ismail Haniyeh: We Should Hold On To The Moment Of The Victory Of October 7 And Build Upon It; Time Is On Our Side; Donations To Gaza Are Not 'Humanitarian Aid' But 'Financial Jihad'

Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh spoke at a conference of the International Union of Muslim Scholars (IUMS) in Doha, Qatar, which was aired on Al-Jazeera Network (Qatar) on January 9, 2024, about the role of Islamic scholars worldwide in the wake of October 7.

www.memri.org

It's beenn written:

Hab 2:8 Because thou hast spoiled many nations, Spoil thee do all the remnant of the peoples, Because of man's blood, and of violence [to] the land, [To] the city, and [to] all dwelling in it.

12 Wo [to] him who is building a city by blood, And establishing a city by iniquity.

Its easy to see the problem, the pursuit of the city (mount/temple).


it's not gonna work, just stop it!

 

[Samael_Khan]

I notice a correlation between religious affiliation
& stance taken in the Israel vs Palestinian war.
Christians, Jews, Muslims, & atheists tend to
particular sides.
But there are interesting outliers of opinion.

https://www.npr.org/2023/12/22/1221128897/masha-gessen-essay-israel-gaza-germany-hannah-arendt-prize

Excerpted....
Prominent Russian-American journalist Masha Gessen received a prestigious award for political thought over the weekend, in a ceremony that almost didn't happen due to backlash over their recent writings on Israel-Gaza.

Israel's air-and-ground assault on Gaza has killed more than 20,000 people in the 10 weeks since the Hamas-led attack on Israel killed some 1,200 people and took more than 240 others hostage.

Gessen, who is Jewish and whose family lost loved ones in the Holocaust, has been criticized for a New Yorker essay published earlier this month in which they likened the Gaza Strip to the WWII-era ghettos that Nazis developed to segregate and control Jewish people in occupied Europe.

Gessen argues in the essay that treating the Holocaust as a "singular event," unlike anything that has occurred before or after in history, not only is incorrect but makes it impossible to learn lessons from the Holocaust that are needed to prevent future genocides.

The term "would have given us the language to describe what is happening in Gaza now. The ghetto is being liquidated," they wrote, referring to the process in which Jews were either killed in ghettos or forced out to concentration camps.

Gessen notes there are key differences between the two: The Nazi claim that ghettos were necessary to protect non-Jews from disease "had no basis in reality," while Israel's stance that the isolation of Gaza is necessary to protect against Palestinian terrorist attacks "stems from actual and repeated acts of violence."

"Yet both claims propose that an occupying authority can choose to isolate, immiserate — and now, mortally endanger — an entire population of people in the name of protecting its own," they contend.

I have noticed this as well. I think religion is the tool used to manufacture consent. Those who are controlling the narrative have more materialistic goals.

 

[Revoltingest]

I don’t think it’s that anyone doesn’t have humanitarian feelings or concerns for Muslims. Rather, I believe the concern is about the terrorist Muslims whose goal is to annihilate Israel.

Those 2 sentences show what's happening. "Concern" is
quickly replaced by "terrorist Muslims". Further note that
it's not merely "terrorists", but "terrorists Muslims". This
makes it easier to kill & maim innocent Muslims, & justify
evicting them all from Gaza.

I don’t think it makes much sense for an atheist to bring up Jesus.

It does in a forum where religious folk, primarily Christians
regularly invoke Jesus to criticize other Christians who
exhibit immorality & a lack of humanity. Then these same
Christians justify mass murder of Palestinians by decrying
peacemaking as feckless. They show no concern for the
tens of thousands of dead & maimed Palestinians, including
children & babies. But oh....do they ever care about a
hundred or so remaining hostages.

In short....
Those who trumpet Christianity as a moral exemplar,
can expect criticism when it fails utterly.

Any Christian, liberal or conservative, who has even an elementary understanding of the scriptures knows that Israel holds a special place in God’s historical and eternal plan. Any attempt by anyone, Hamas or otherwise, to destroy Israel and take Jerusalem is a direct attack against the Creator. At least that is my view.

This is indeed a source of bigotry against Muslims,
& dismissal of the value of their lives relative to
"God's Chosen", the Jews.

As you can see from the quotes and linked article, Hamas and many Muslim scholars do not care about the humanity of the people in Gaza, but continue to indoctrinate hatred and violence into them and use them as tools to gain financial aid from around the globe, not for humanitarian reasons, but for the purpose of destroying Israel.

Your post continues with justification for killing
innocents....if "many Muslim scholars" don't care,
then Jews & Christians needn't care about Muslims.

“Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh spoke at a conference of the International Union of Muslim Scholars (IUMS) in Doha, Qatar, which was aired on Al-Jazeera Network (Qatar) on January 9, 2024, about the role of Islamic scholars worldwide in the wake of October 7. He said: "We should hold on to the victory that took place on October 7 and build upon it," and he added: "Time is on our side." Haniyeh said that Islamic scholars should advocate for the Palestinians in their respective countries and that donations to Gaza were not humanitarian aid, but "financial Jihad." He stated that "the time has come for the Jihad of the swords."


“Like the scholars have mentioned, there are fatwas to this effect, and there are motivating statements. There is verbal Jihad, which is Jihad by the tongue, but indeed, the time has come for Jihad of the swords. This is the battle for Jerusalem and the Al-Aqsa Mosque, and not the battle of the Palestinian people, or Gaza, or the people in Gaza.”

Hamas Leader Ismail Haniyeh: We Should Hold On To The Moment Of The Victory Of October 7 And Build Upon It; Time Is On Our Side; Donations To Gaza Are Not 'Humanitarian Aid' But 'Financial Jihad'

Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh spoke at a conference of the International Union of Muslim Scholars (IUMS) in Doha, Qatar, which was aired on Al-Jazeera Network (Qatar) on January 9, 2024, about the role of Islamic scholars worldwide in the wake of October 7.

www.memri.org

Dang, man.....you're supporting my view that
Christians & Jews have so much hatred or
disregard for Muslims that war crimes &
genocide have become acceptable...nay,
even righteous.

 

[Revoltingest]

I have noticed this as well. I think religion is the tool used to manufacture consent. Those who are controlling the narrative have more materialistic goals.

I see religion as fundamental, not a mere tool.
How it appears to me....
Christians value only Christians & Jews.
Jews value only Jews.
And both devalue Muslims.
This drives USA's & Israel's predation, conquest,
murder, oppression, & theft in the Middle East.

 

[Estro Felino]

I see religion as fundamental, not a mere tool.
How it appears to me....
Christians value only Christians & Jews.
Jews value only Jews.
And both devalue Muslims.
This drives USA's & Israel's predation, conquest,
murder, oppression, & theft in the Middle East.

Christians are the only ones who don't see religions as monoliths.

I believe there are two categories: the wicked and the just.
The just can be any religion: Christians, non-Christians, atheists, etc...

But yes, other religions who think: we are all saints, the others are are all bad.
The Us vs Them mentality.

 

[Revoltingest]

Christians are the only ones who don't see religions as monoliths.

You say "monoliths".
(Perhaps to avoid very real tendencies.)
I don't see you extending this attitude of
tolerance & charity towards Muslims who
are being killed, maimed, robbed, & evicted
by Christians & Jews.

 

[LuisDantas]

Christians are the only ones who don't see religions as monoliths.

Oh boy. Is that ever not remotely true.

 

[Estro Felino]

You say "monoliths".
(Perhaps to avoid very real tendencies.)
I don't see you extending this attitude of
tolerance & charity towards Muslims who
are being killed, maimed, robbed, & evicted
by Christians & Jews.

I apply one single standard to all situation. The United States and Americans apply two standards at least.
Doublestandardism.

 

[LuisDantas]

Even leaving aside for a moment whether religion or politics is the most proper lens to analyse the situation through, the fact remains that it is not possible to establish meaningful talks without the sincere willingness to do so from both sides.

I can hardly defend Israel's current actions, but I find a dearth of evidence that the Palestinians are any better - or have ever been since 1948 or so.

Would dearly love to be solidly convinced otherwise.

 

[Revoltingest]

I apply one single standard to all situation. The United States and Americans apply two standards at least.
Doublestandardism.

You've gotten that reversed.

 

[Estro Felino]

You've gotten that reversed.

Then explain me why the US side with the invaders (Saudi Arabia) in the Middle East, against Yemen,
whereas they side with the invaded (Ukraine) in Europe.

US' choices have nothing to do with religious affiliation, trust me.

 

[Revoltingest]

Then explain me why the US side with the invaders (Saudi Arabia) in the Middle East, against Yemen,
whereas they side with the invaded (Ukraine) in Europe.

US' choices have nothing to do with religious affiliation, trust me.

I ignore your attempt at whataboutism.
You Christians should instead explain why
you now support genocide, war crimes,
apartheid, collective punishment, & torture.

 

[Estro Felino]

I ignore your attempt at whataboutism.
You Christians should instead explain why
you now support genocide, war crimes,
apartheid, collective punishment, & torture.

I don't support any of these things.
I just want those two nations to coexist in peace. Period.

 

[Revoltingest]

I don't support any of these things.
I just want those two nations to coexist in peace. Period.

But there is a how to getting to peace.
To favor the one engaging in over-kill, be
they Israel or Russia, is to not favor peace
at all....just easy victory over the vanquished.
You might even admit that Hamas wants
peace too...just not on your terms.

 

[Estro Felino]

You might even admit that Hamas wants
peace too...just not on your terms.

Are you defending Hamas? Hamas is fundamentalism, it's terrorism.
They are not civilians.
Fundamentalism doesn't want the peace with infidels (us).
They just want us Europeans to commit a mass suicide, to eliminate ourselves, so they can islamize Europe in peace.