Religious Affiliation & Side Taken Regarding Israel

[Shadow Wolf]

I don’t think it’s that anyone doesn’t have humanitarian feelings or concerns for Muslims. Rather, I believe the concern is about the terrorist Muslims whose goal is to annihilate Israel. I don’t think it makes much sense for an atheist to bring up Jesus. Any Christian, liberal or conservative, who has even an elementary understanding of the scriptures knows that Israel holds a special place in God’s historical and eternal plan. Any attempt by anyone, Hamas or otherwise, to destroy Israel and take Jerusalem is a direct attack against the Creator. At least that is my view.
As you can see from the quotes and linked article, Hamas and many Muslim scholars do not care about the humanity of the people in Gaza, but continue to indoctrinate hatred and violence into them and use them as tools to gain financial aid from around the globe, not for humanitarian reasons, but for the purpose of destroying Israel.

“Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh spoke at a conference of the International Union of Muslim Scholars (IUMS) in Doha, Qatar, which was aired on Al-Jazeera Network (Qatar) on January 9, 2024, about the role of Islamic scholars worldwide in the wake of October 7. He said: "We should hold on to the victory that took place on October 7 and build upon it," and he added: "Time is on our side." Haniyeh said that Islamic scholars should advocate for the Palestinians in their respective countries and that donations to Gaza were not humanitarian aid, but "financial Jihad." He stated that "the time has come for the Jihad of the swords."


“Like the scholars have mentioned, there are fatwas to this effect, and there are motivating statements. There is verbal Jihad, which is Jihad by the tongue, but indeed, the time has come for Jihad of the swords. This is the battle for Jerusalem and the Al-Aqsa Mosque, and not the battle of the Palestinian people, or Gaza, or the people in Gaza.”

Hamas Leader Ismail Haniyeh: We Should Hold On To The Moment Of The Victory Of October 7 And Build Upon It; Time Is On Our Side; Donations To Gaza Are Not 'Humanitarian Aid' But 'Financial Jihad'

Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh spoke at a conference of the International Union of Muslim Scholars (IUMS) in Doha, Qatar, which was aired on Al-Jazeera Network (Qatar) on January 9, 2024, about the role of Islamic scholars worldwide in the wake of October 7.

www.memri.org

It's the very real fact that Hamas is not the sum of Palestine. You might as well try to say all Americans are war hawks and fully support America's own campaigns camoaigns of wanton death and destruction. Some do, but some of prefer peace to violence.
Sure, Hamas is bad. But those innicent Palestinian mothers who just lost their innocent Palestinian baby?
Or think of it this way. Hamas sucks. IDF sucks. They blood thirsty monsters who have a reputation for hurting and killing innocent people.

 

[Debater Slayer]

At this point, I certainly don’t think Israel is the hero, nor a nation that always acts righteously or benevolently; on the contrary. But I think the hatred mentality with the goal of Israel’s destruction, promoted by Hamas and indoctrinated into the minds of Palestinian people, from childhood up, is evil. So as the writer of the article says below …

The writer of that editorial/opinion piece is a Canadian political commentator who works for a Canadian tabloid, the Toronto Sun. So far, you have provided no support for your claim that the "hatred mentality" is "indoctrinated into the minds of Palestinian people, from childhood up." To how many Palestinians do you think that description applies, and what percentage of the population are they?

This is exactly what I meant in my previous post: You are quoting an editorial written by a Canadian political commentator in a Canadian tabloid and using it to justify condemnatory generalizations about the Palestinian people. Your other link is to the Times of Israel, which reinforces my impression about picking specific sources that further specific perspectives and not considering the rest.

I will repeat my question from the previous post, since you didn't answer it and instead posted this opinion piece from a tabloid:

How many Palestinians have you talked to or asked about their history and background in relation to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict? How many sources do you read that are not entirely pro-Israeli and explicitly written from a perspective that neither extensively covers nor deeply understands Palestinian perspectives and concerns regarding the issue?

It is a grave error to refuse to believe that people could slaughter whole populations – especially populations that are by any objective evaluation not threatening – out of conviction. Why persist in the belief that ‘ordinary’ people could not possibly sanction, let alone partake in wholesale human slaughter? The historical record, from ancient times to the present, amply testifies to the ease with which people can extinguish the lives of others, and even take joy in their deaths.”

Ordinary Germans did.
Ordinary Palestinians, too.”

—————
“A few weeks ago, this writer was invited to the Israeli consulate in Toronto to see 42 minutes of raw video footage. It was mostly taken from video recorders dead (and uniformed) Hamas terrorists brought with them on the morning of Oct. 7, 2023.”

“In the Hamas footage, a Palestinian in civilian clothes uses an oversized green garden hoe to decapitate a foreign agricultural worker who is still alive. There are videos of Palestinian civilians beating hostages – some elderly – with sticks and their fists. And there is footage of corpses of Israelis being desecrated by Palestinians, on the back of a truck.

The Hamas video footage – some now online – also shows non-Hamas Palestinians looting and vandalizing the homes and bodies of Jews.
Multiple videos document Palestinian citizens flooding into Israeli, following Hamas. At Kibbutz Be’eri, near the border with Gaza, video footage – mainly taken from home security cameras – shows dozens of Palestinian citizens following ten truckloads of Hamas killers into the kibbutz.

Some Palestinians came by car, and some on foot and on bicycles. Some are armed. Some are children. They can then be seen stealing agricultural equipment, televisions, motorbikes and more.
Not every Palestinian is Hamas. That’s true. But it’s also true that – on that terrible day – many, many Palestinians were supporting Hamas.”

One of the reasons why Hamas mass murder on Oct. 7 was so effective and efficient was because Palestinian civilians – Palestinians who had been working alongside Israelis in those kibbutzim farms – had told Hamas how to disable the Israeli security and communications systems. They had told them who to kill first, and where victims could be found.

Palestinian civilians did that.”

KINSELLA: Ordinary Palestinian citizens aided and abetted Hamas on Oct. 7

Hamas did not act alone Oct. 7. It did not act alone before or after that date. Palestinians – ordinary citizens – aided and abetted Hamas.

torontosun.com

I am concerned and pray for the Palestinian people and the Jewish people because I believe God cares about every person.

The negative and demonizing generalizations you have posted about Palestinian civilians—while the IDF has killed and injured tens of thousands of them so far—don't indicate concern for them; it seems to me that doing so indicates that you have already decided they are guilty in one way or another and are merely reading opinion pieces and highly partisan sources that agree with this perspective. That was why I asked you the above question in the first place.

Below a quote by:
Mosab Hassan Yousef, the disowned eldest son of the co-founder of Hamas

“ I am the legitimate representative of the Palestinian children. The child within me speaks: I don’t want somebody coming from London or somebody coming from the other side of the world to tell me what is the struggle of the Palestinian children. The Palestinian society has been hijacked by criminals and anybody who takes their side is participating in their crime,” he said.”

‘Son of Hamas’ in interview: Terrorists brought wrath of God with October 7 attack

In passionate conversation with UK TV journalist Piers Morgan, Mosab Hassan Yousef, the disowned son of Hamas co-founder, advocates for war to topple bloody regime

www.timesofisrael.com

So, you have read the above quote that agrees with your views. How familiar are you with the perspectives of other Palestinians, especially civilians? This goes back to my question above, so I'm looking forward to reading your answer to it.

 

[Revoltingest]

She could see the hatred in their eyes as they raped, brutalized and mutilated people. She could not explain or understand the intensity or even pleasure she saw mixed with the hate.

Speaking of hatred.
We see a glimpse of Israeli culture that explains its ready adoption of genocide....

 

[InChrist]

The writer of that editorial/opinion piece is a Canadian political commentator who works for a Canadian tabloid, the Toronto Sun. So far, you have provided no support for your claim that the "hatred mentality" is "indoctrinated into the minds of Palestinian people, from childhood up." To how many Palestinians do you think that description applies, and what percentage of the population are they?

This is exactly what I meant in my previous post: You are quoting an editorial written by a Canadian political commentator in a Canadian tabloid and using it to justify condemnatory generalizations about the Palestinian people. Your other link is to the Times of Israel, which reinforces my impression about picking specific sources that further specific perspectives and not considering the rest.

I will repeat my question from the previous post, since you didn't answer it and instead posted this opinion piece from a tabloid:





The negative and demonizing generalizations you have posted about Palestinian civilians—while the IDF has killed and injured tens of thousands of them so far—don't indicate concern for them; it seems to me that doing so indicates that you have already decided they are guilty in one way or another and are merely reading opinion pieces and highly partisan sources that agree with this perspective. That was why I asked you the above question in the first place.



So, you have read the above quote that agrees with your views. How familiar are you with the perspectives of other Palestinians, especially civilians? This goes back to my question above, so I'm looking forward to reading your answer to it.

Certainly, I don’t think all civilians
hate Jews or Israel. Yet, I think it’s a well-known and established reality that such hatred is perpetuated.
Although, the writer of the first article attempts to distinguish hatred for Israel, from hating Jews, I don’t think there’s any difference.
“Palestinian parents do not teach their children to hate Jews; they teach their children to hate the Jewish state – for their own survival.”

Yes, Palestinians Teach Their Children to Hate the Jewish State - Palestine Chronicle

Palestinian parents do not teach their children to hate Jews; they teach their children to hate the Jewish state – for their own survival.

www.palestinechronicle.com

—————

“Yousef also addressed the broader implications of Hamas’ actions on future generations.

“Hamas’ first crime against children in the Palestinian societies is not arming them or encouraging them to carry suicide bombing attacks — it’s the religious ideological indoctrination that I had to go through with one intention in mind: to annihilate the State of Israel. This is Hamas' primary goal,” Yousef said.

He emphasized that blaming Israel does not address the root of the problem, which lies in Hamas’ indoctrination and criminal activities against children and society.”

Hamas co-founder’s son warns of terrorist group's indoctrination of children in Gaza

Mosab Hassan Yousef, the son of Hamas co-founder Sheikh Hassan Yousef, delivered a powerful address at the United Nations this week, condemning the actions and ideologies of Hamas His speech focused ...

www.christianpost.com

 

[InChrist]

Speaking of hatred.
We see a glimpse of Israeli culture that explains its ready adoption of genocide....

Clearly, that’s a very wrong video, especially using children. But there’s no comparison to the hatred unleashed and demonstrated by the violent militants which occurred on October 7th.

 

[Revoltingest]

Clearly, that’s a very wrong video, especially using children. But there’s no comparison to the hatred unleashed and demonstrated by the violent militants which occurred on October 7th.

There's no comparison, because the Hamas attack
was by a few, & killed under 2,000. Israel's attack
was by the entire country, & killed over 26,000.
And now Israel openly talks of its plans to evict
the survivors, & send them to Africa. This is
vengeance & paranoid fueled genocide.

Israel exhibits great hatred for Muslims, with that
song showing they teach their children to fear &
hate. Israelis are not better than Muslims.

 

[Colt]

There's no comparison, because the Hamas attack
was by a few, & killed under 2,000. Israel's attack
was by the entire country, & killed over 26,000.
And now Israel openly talks of its plans to evict
the survivors, & send them to Africa. This is
vengeance & paranoid fueled genocide.

Israel exhibits great hatred for Muslims, with that
song showing they teach their children to fear &
hate. Israelis are not better than Muslims.

Hamas, one of a long list of groups attacking Jews for ages, picked a fight with a superior force. Hamas are Palestinians dressed up in their outfits for photo ops BUT then blend back into the population, like rats bringing poison back to the family. They all suffer when the IDF sniffs them out and strikes their command centers and hideouts. It's a horrible reality that they brought on themselves! It could all stop if they surrendered to the inevitable.

 

[Revoltingest]

Hamas, one of a long list of groups attacking Jews for ages, picked a fight with a superior force. Hamas are Palestinians dressed up in their outfits for photo ops BUT then blend back into the population, like rats bringing poison back to the family. They all suffer when the IDF sniffs them out and strikes their command centers and hideouts. It's a horrible reality that they brought on themselves! It could all stop if they surrendered to the inevitable.

Surrendering to Israel's brutal oppression & apartheid
isn't going to happen. The last 70+ years show this.
Israel hopes that if they just kill enuf Muslims, & keep
the survivors under brutal authoritarian control, this
will win them peace. It hasn't worked yet. It's a delusion
brought on by paranoia, hatred, & religious tribalism.
The only path to peace is to give Palestinians justice.

 

[Colt]

Surrendering to Israel's brutal oppression & apartheid
isn't going to happen. The last 70+ years show this.
Israel hopes that if they just kill enuf Muslims, & keep
the survivors under brutal authoritarian control, this
will win them peace. It hasn't worked yet. It's a delusion
brought on by paranoia, hatred, & religious tribalism.
The only path to peace is to give Palestinians justice.

Arab Jews, Arab Muslims, Christians, Druze and other groups that are Israeli citizens all live together and have a good quality of life. You mischaracterize the situation. Antisemitic religious fanatics that have been attacking the Jews indiscriminately for years have segregated themselves. If they are oppressed it's a consequence of their own past behavior and sworn determination to kill all the Jews. I side with the Jews!

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I see religion as fundamental, not a mere tool.
How it appears to me....
Christians value only Christians & Jews.
Jews value only Jews.
And both devalue Muslims.
This drives USA's & Israel's predation, conquest,
murder, oppression, & theft in the Middle East.

"Jews value only Jews."

It reads like hate speech perfectly suited for a KKK or Proud Boys banner.

And, being increasingly normalized, few dare call it antisemitic.​

 

[Revoltingest]

Arab Jews, Arab Muslims, Christians, Druze and other groups that are Israeli citizens all live together and have a good quality of life. You mischaracterize the situation. Antisemitic religious fanatics that have been attacking the Jews indiscriminately for years have segregated themselves. If they are oppressed it's a consequence of their own past behavior and sworn determination to kill all the Jews. I side with the Jews!

Blaming the oppressed for their oppression, eh.

 

[Revoltingest]

"Jews value only Jews."

It is what I observe in Israel's press releases,
Israeli official statements, interviews with Israelis,
posts on RF, discussions IRL.

It seems that you want to take a general claim
about a group (Jews), & twist it into a claim
about every one. Don't do that.
It's analogous to claims about conservatives,
liberals, Democrats, Republicans, ie, they have
group tendencies, despite individual variation.

It reads like hate speech perfectly suited for a KKK or Proud Boys banner.

And, being increasingly normalized, few dare call it antisemitic.​

More semitic slurs & demonization by association
betray your lack of cogent argument to defend
Israel's committing genocide.
Posts from you & your ilk read like paranoid Nazi
propaganda, differing only by substituting the
word "Palestinian" for the word "Jew".

You defend death, destruction, & genocide.
You do not have the moral high ground to
allow such vehement self righteousness.

 

[Colt]

Blaming the oppressed for their oppression, eh.

In this case yes! Thousands of terrorist attacks against Jews every year has sort of lead them to not like Palestinian terrorist!

I can see you in your armchair during WWII complaining about the Jews oppressing the Germans!

 

[Revoltingest]

In this case yes! Thousands of terrorist attacks against Jews every year has sort of lead them to not like Palestinian terrorist!

How about the thousands of state terrorist
attacks on Palestinians over 70+ years?
Surely you can see that oppressed people
will violently retaliate, eh.

And yes, I called you "surely".

I can see you in your armchair during WWII complaining about the Jews oppressing the Germans!

I can see you in your SS uniform claiming
the concentration camps were "self defense".
Your sunglasses would really make the
outfit "schneidig".

What vivid imaginations we both have!

 

[InChrist]

There's no comparison, because the Hamas attack
was by a few, & killed under 2,000. Israel's attack
was by the entire country, & killed over 26,000.
And now Israel openly talks of its plans to evict
the survivors, & send them to Africa. This is
vengeance & paranoid fueled genocide.

Israel exhibits great hatred for Muslims, with that
song showing they teach their children to fear &
hate. Israelis are not better than Muslims.

While it may happen sporadically, I don’t think songs like that or children being taught to hate Muslims is widespread or the norm in Israel. Children learning fear likely has more to do with the continuous terrorist attacks they’ve experienced.
If Israel has such great hatred for Muslims, why do they let any Muslims live in Israel and have Israeli citizenship?

 

[Revoltingest]

While it may happen sporadically, I don’t think songs like that or children being taught to hate Muslims is widespread or the norm in Israel. Children learning fear likely has more to do with the continuous terrorist attacks they’ve experienced.
If Israel has such great hatred for Muslims, why do they let any Muslims live in Israel and have Israeli citizenship?

The majority of Israelis supporting what their
military & settlers do is the real evidence of
what that children's song exemplifies.

 

[Bthoth]

While it may happen sporadically, I don’t think songs like that or children being taught to hate Muslims is widespread or the norm in Israel. Children learning fear likely has more to do with the continuous terrorist attacks they’ve experienced.

And the children of gaza? Do you consider the bombings? The removal from jerusalem? Living under gun towers and fencing?

If Israel has such great hatred for Muslims, why do they let any Muslims live in Israel and have Israeli citizenship?

No choice. jerusalem is a neutral city per the UN, which created israel. The mount is held by muslims, per the last 1400 yrs and israel exists within palestine.

 

[libre]

I see religion as fundamental, not a mere tool.
How it appears to me....
Christians value only Christians & Jews.
Jews value only Jews.
And both devalue Muslims.
This drives USA's & Israel's predation, conquest,
murder, oppression, & theft in the Middle East.

It would be a mistake to view America's fanatic support of Israel as an indication of how much they value Jewish people.

Further, your comment about Jews is in exceptionally poor taste.

 

[Bthoth]

It would be a mistake to view America's fanatic support of Israel as an indication of how much they value Jewish people.

The jewish people are US. Not israel. American's defend US, the land of the free, before all others. the support is because 'we the people' care about a democratic society growing before any religious belief.

Further, your comment about Jews is in exceptionally poor taste.

Anyone that knows Jews personally will love them outright. Not because of their namesake but because of the adherence to the commandments (personal responsibility).

Did you forget that the focal scope of judaism is keeping the commandments and why christianity evolved from the OT?

Human beings comprehend that the commandments (rules of personal responsibility) enable civil society.

Them rules are taught to American's about naturally and a part of our culture. The corruption of judaism is because of israel, not Jews.

When you learn judaism via torah, then you will understand that the rules accepted (commandments) are as good NOW as back in the old days.

what has damaged the integrity of judaism is using israel as a measure of what is jewish.

 

[Revoltingest]

It would be a mistake to view America's fanatic support of Israel as an indication of how much they value Jewish people.

I disagree, & base this on many many discussions over
decades with Christians (the overwhelming power here).
Religious tribalism is the foundation of this conflict.
We may freely criticize beliefs of Nazis, Stalinists, Maoists,
capitalists, socialists, Islamists, Christian Dominionists,
Scientologists, etc, etc. But when Judaism exhibits
wrongs, to criticize its malefactors is taboo. **** that.

Further, your comment about Jews is in exceptionally poor taste.

Blunt is my specialty.
Poor taste is inevitable.
I stand by the general traits I observe in various groups.
Why mince words, eh. I'll leave diplomacy to my betters.

I like your post. Not that I agree,
but it inspired some thought.