Religions are Manmade

[sojourner]

religion, being intangible, cannot be experienced in the same way because it is highly subjected by the multiple perceptions of it which is a collection of ideals that where randomly influenced (through space and time) and are not reconcilable, consistent or have a coherent relationship to each other... hence the various types of sects within the same religion.

I don't see it that way.

 

[waitasec]

I don't see it that way.

i know...

 

[PhAA]

I never claimed religion wasn't of human origin.

then it is man made

 

[nevaya]

Whereas Baha'is have no fear whatever about the Next Life and, indeed, welcome it!

I quote our scriptures:

"O SON OF THE SUPREME!
"I have made death a messenger of joy to thee; wherefore dost thou grieve?
"I have made the light to shine on thee its splendor; why dost thou veil thyself therefrom?"
--The Hidden Words, Part Two, #32

Best!

Bruce

And what if these words were purely fictional, then would you welcome death.

 

[sojourner]

then it is man made

That's what I've contended all along...

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Which merely proves a lot of people are prejudiced ("pre-judging"). So what else is new?

It doesn't merely prove that; it also proves that your point was incorrect.

Just as YOU don't need to "take advantage of every opportunity you can" to promote atheism.

I know; I don't.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I dunno about that. I have a very good friend who was reared religious and ended up an atheist. Even I ended up in a different place than how I was reared. So did my sister.

And I know of a double amputee who does very well at kendo. It still doesn't mean that losing your legs doesn't make it significantly more difficult to do martial arts.

When I was married the first time, it was a Catholic wedding, and there was no fee charged.

Same with my wedding, also in a Catholic church. Apparently, this varies. In this case, I was specifically thinking of the closest Catholic church to me, which I only looked into because my wife goes there occasionally.

Their hard-line stance on sola scriptura, the prohibition of females in ministry, their emotional piety, their movement away from Patristic Xy all point to their not being mainstream. I don't give a rat's how big they are here in the States.

I think your definition of "mainstream" as being necessarily "patristic" is unfounded. Maybe if you used the term "traditional" instead, it would cause less confusion.

No. I was saying that religion seeks for truth and human wholeness. If it doesn't do that, then it's not religion. It's something else. Cults brainwash and coerce. That's neither truth nor wholeness. It's abuse. Therefore, I'd have a real hard time calling them religions, no matter what they couch their abuse in.

Hmm. I personally consider a religion to be a community of shared belief. In that context, I think there's some overlap between "cults" and "religions". Not all religions are cults (most aren't, IMO), but they're not mutually exclusive categories.

What you'd say makes no difference, because you're not in charge of making that distinction.

Neither are you.

The Presiding Bishop's Fund for World Relief (ECUSA)

... which is so "mainstream" that its website is no longer active.

Week of Compassion (D of C)

When I ask him what he sees as the center of his ministry at this point, his response is lengthy and moving. He says that in the post-war context, where the community is slowly returning to the area, it is most important to help people re-engage with the liturgy, and to bring people to Holy Communion. For him, this both symbolically helps the community feel connected to one another and to God, but also literally brings Christ into their community. As a people who were displaced during the war, as were countless others, this focus on the tradition and the liturgy is a key way in which religion can play a vital role in recreating the identity of the faith community.

Week of Compassion - Travelogue

Doesn't exactly sound like "not preaching" to me.

The Carmelites (and other RCC orders)

You're joking, right?

Wal-Mart is the largest, most visible and prominent retailer, too, but I wouldn't call them the "main face of American business."

You wouldn't? Why not?

What do you think is the main face of American business, then?

Go to any strip mall in Smalltown USA and you'll see a Wal-Mart Supercenter, too. So what?

So when you ask someone, "quick! Name a retailer!" the odds are pretty good that they'll say "Wal-Mart". When you ask "quick! Name a religious charity!" most people will say "the Salvation Army" or "World Vision". The first thing in their heads probably won't be "the Presiding Bishop's Fund for World Relief".

Again: So what? Or haven't you ever heard the term, "Size isn't what matters?"

Size does matter when determining whether something is mainstream. A mainstream political party is one that holds a large amount of public support. A fringe political party is one that's only supported by a small minority. Same for religions and denominations.

Well, they've certainly deviated from the "core" Xian beliefs held by the vast majority of Xians...

The vast majority of Christians have deviated from the vast majority of Christians? How does that make sense?

What is "core" can change. For example, the Amish lifestyle was once mainstream, but now it's fringe.

 

[BruceDLimber]

And what if these words were purely fictional, then would you welcome death.

Since my experience indicates they're not, I reject your premise (as well as ending my inquiries with a question mark).

Bruce

 

[Hawkins]

I suggest that all religions are manmade.

That this itself is faith statement and an assertion at the same time. God gives references, instead of using a single man like you as a standard. God uses the church as a reference/standard, which His sheep will be able to recognise.

 

[waitasec]

That this itself is faith statement and an assertion at the same time. God gives references, instead of using a single man like you as a standard. God uses the church as a reference/standard, which His sheep will be able to recognise.

not a good standard if you look at history...
and looking at the sheep's track record, you get a sense of insecurity...the need for control.

 

[PhAA]

The fact that some points of religion change or wrap around the new discoveries of humans makes it clear that religion is just man made. Before, the religious had several beliefs on on why the sun is absent at night, they believed that the Earth is the center, not the Sun; that the Earth is flat; that there are witches & demons that needs to be eliminated and so on and on.

 

[Hawkins]

not a good standard if you look at history...
and looking at the sheep's track record, you get a sense of insecurity...the need for control.

It is a good standard as long as all those whose names being written in the Book of Life are saved.

Your "not a good standard" remains your own speculation.

 

[waitasec]

It is a good standard as long as all those whose names being written in the Book of Life are saved.

Your "not a good standard" remains your own speculation.

oh i see,
so the amount of suffering religion has caused was worth it...really? and which book of life are you referring to? is your name in allah's book?

btw, history is not speculation...

 

[Hawkins]

oh i see,
so the amount of suffering religion has caused was worth it...really? and which book of life are you referring to? is your name in allah's book?

btw, history is not speculation...

The amount of suffering religion has caused is by the sinners. They had nothing to do with the purpose of salvation. How many time you have to misunderstand?

 

[waitasec]

The amount of suffering religion has caused is by the sinners. They had nothing to do with the purpose of salvation. How many time you have to misunderstand?

After Christianity gained dominance in the Roman Empire, it became clear that they regarded their God as very authoritarian in nature - and as a result, they proceeded to imitate their God and become exceptionally authoritarian themselves. Controlling society, they ruthlessly exterminated other religious beliefs, with only Judaism being permitted to co-exist with their own One True Faith. The exclusivist ideology which fostered such attitudes has continued on through today, with little alteration.

Pagan religion was first prohibited wholesale in 392 by emperor Theodosius. Heavy financial penalities were enacted, but it was not initially very effective. In Theodosius' code it was written:

We command that those persons who follow this rule shall embrace the name of Catholic Christians. The rest, however, whom We adjudge demented and insane, shall sustain the infamy of heretical dogmas, their meeting places shall not receive the name of churches, and they shall be smitten first by divine vengeance and secondly by the retributions of Our own initiative, which We shall assume in accordance with the divine judgment.

And later, with regards to Pagan buildings:

We command that all their fanes, temples, and shrines, if even now any remain entire, shall be destroyed by the command of the magistrates, and shall be purified by the erection of th sign of the venerable Christian religion.


This resulted in further legislation, culminating in the death penalty for non-Christians in 435. All citizens had to belong to the official "Catholic" Christianity - the only other permitted religion was Judaism, and Jews were isolated as much as possible from the rest of the population. As the geopolitical and military position of the failing Roman Empire gradually deteriorated, people readily turned towards the activity of trying to appease God - a reaction which is not unknown in contemporary society. Between 429 and 439 about 150 different laws were passed defining and defending the "Catholic faith." Church lands became exempt from taxation and bishops became immune to any sort of secular oversight or punishment.



Christianity and Violence: Early History

 

[Hawkins]

After Christianity gained dominance in the Roman Empire, it became clear that they regarded their God as very authoritarian in nature - and as a result, they proceeded to imitate their God and become exceptionally authoritarian themselves. Controlling society, they ruthlessly exterminated other religious beliefs, with only Judaism being permitted to co-exist with their own One True Faith. The exclusivist ideology which fostered such attitudes has continued on through today, with little alteration.

Pagan religion was first prohibited wholesale in 392 by emperor Theodosius. Heavy financial penalities were enacted, but it was not initially very effective. In Theodosius' code it was written:

We command that those persons who follow this rule shall embrace the name of Catholic Christians. The rest, however, whom We adjudge demented and insane, shall sustain the infamy of heretical dogmas, their meeting places shall not receive the name of churches, and they shall be smitten first by divine vengeance and secondly by the retributions of Our own initiative, which We shall assume in accordance with the divine judgment.

And later, with regards to Pagan buildings:

We command that all their fanes, temples, and shrines, if even now any remain entire, shall be destroyed by the command of the magistrates, and shall be purified by the erection of th sign of the venerable Christian religion.


This resulted in further legislation, culminating in the death penalty for non-Christians in 435. All citizens had to belong to the official "Catholic" Christianity - the only other permitted religion was Judaism, and Jews were isolated as much as possible from the rest of the population. As the geopolitical and military position of the failing Roman Empire gradually deteriorated, people readily turned towards the activity of trying to appease God - a reaction which is not unknown in contemporary society. Between 429 and 439 about 150 different laws were passed defining and defending the "Catholic faith." Church lands became exempt from taxation and bishops became immune to any sort of secular oversight or punishment.



Christianity and Violence: Early History

So your argument here is that "because those people behaved so such that God must not exist"?

That's a fallacious argument, hope you notice that.

The truth of God is independent of how human behaves, including those sinners claimed to Christians or authority. Actually, God doesn't promote self-claimed authority other than His own prophets (while His prophets' claim is not a self claim theologically speaking).

 

[blackout]

I Create my Own religion/Way.

also,

I Am God.

 

[waitasec]

So your argument here is that "because those people behaved so such that God must not exist"?

That's a fallacious argument, hope you notice that.

The truth of God is independent of how human behaves, including those sinners claimed to Christians or authority. Actually, God doesn't promote self-claimed authority other than His own prophets (while His prophets' claim is not a self claim theologically speaking).

did i say that? no i don't think so. you came up with that all by yourself captain...
this is what i quoted.

After Christianity gained dominance in the Roman Empire, it became clear that they regarded their God as very authoritarian in nature - and as a result, they proceeded to imitate their God and become exceptionally authoritarian themselves. Controlling society, they ruthlessly exterminated other religious beliefs, with only Judaism being permitted to co-exist with their own One True Faith. The exclusivist ideology which fostered such attitudes has continued on through today, with little alteration.

Pagan religion was first prohibited wholesale in 392 by emperor Theodosius. Heavy financial penalities were enacted, but it was not initially very effective. In Theodosius' code it was written:

We command that those persons who follow this rule shall embrace the name of Catholic Christians. The rest, however, whom We adjudge demented and insane, shall sustain the infamy of heretical dogmas, their meeting places shall not receive the name of churches, and they shall be smitten first by divine vengeance and secondly by the retributions of Our own initiative, which We shall assume in accordance with the divine judgment.

And later, with regards to Pagan buildings:

We command that all their fanes, temples, and shrines, if even now any remain entire, shall be destroyed by the command of the magistrates, and shall be purified by the erection of th sign of the venerable Christian religion.


This resulted in further legislation, culminating in the death penalty for non-Christians in 435. All citizens had to belong to the official "Catholic" Christianity - the only other permitted religion was Judaism, and Jews were isolated as much as possible from the rest of the population. As the geopolitical and military position of the failing Roman Empire gradually deteriorated, people readily turned towards the activity of trying to appease God - a reaction which is not unknown in contemporary society. Between 429 and 439 about 150 different laws were passed defining and defending the "Catholic faith." Church lands became exempt from taxation and bishops became immune to any sort of secular oversight or punishment.

i find it very interesting that YOU were the one who brought up gods existence...
maybe you like to argue with yourself...by setting up fallacious statements...
most impressive...

 

[Orias]

I Create my Own religion/Way.

also,

I Am God.

It saddens me to see so many people hold these views with an awkward grasp.

Most people are only interested in what they see :slap:

 

[PhAA]

It saddens me to see so many people hold these views with an awkward grasp.

Most people are only interested in what they see :slap:

Isn't that what religion is? Of course what you will believe in is what you see and what you truly believe is true. It doesn't have to be like the mainstream religions.