One of the main arguments for a theistic world view that I have heard many times is the idea that our reality had to be created by something/one.
I think its less by something and more that something caused it.
It seems logical as the patterns that we see in our reality do point to the idea that it all had a beginning.
Indeed.
From what we observe things that have a start usually have a cause.
Yep.
Unfortunately we cannot know for sure on the subject of the start of our universe.
Indeed. yet we do know the beginning was instant and full. meaning that we know that the entire physical scope of our universe, meaning everything we can observe and sense in our universe was once a singular point of existence.
This is at least the most accepted theory we have today.
Also, sadly, the answer "we don't know" does not sit well with the common person.
I disagree.
Most people I know have no problem admitting not knowing. most people I encounter are common
Thus comes in the Theist to save the day and give us the comfort of believing we are important to the universe.
I Don't think this is the issue.
I think that as an atheist, you think that the theist presume to have the answer you lack.
The fact is that most theist don't claim to know more than you with the exception they believe that something that is far more complex for our mind to understand is what governs our universe.
No theist knows what God is. I have yet to encounter anyone who claims he knows this answer.
All this aside, one must come to the conclusion that this argument by itself is a deistic position strictly speaking.
I Think that here lies the confusion of yourself and most atheists.
You assume the theist don't really know what God is, and you are right, but what theists do know that the atheist POV fails to see, is the affect God have on our existence.
You can think of it as understanding what electricity can do without understand what electricity is (which is the reality for most people on earth
)
So here, the deistic POV is actually the exact opposite of the theistic POV.
The deist claims he has no idea if there is or isn't a God.
The theistic POV has a clear understanding that there is a God, yet we can't really explain what God is. I can tell you how it affects my (and your) life, I can clearly see (literally) this influence on my life and i have no doubt at all that God is what causes this influence.
As I have said before, I have no conflict with the deist.
Obviously. The deist is an atheist in the sense of not believing there is a God.
Now comes the plot of this thread.
Yey
Even if I, as an atheist,
Been there, done that
concede that it is possible maybe even probable that the universe had a "creator" the theist still must provide good sound reasoning as to why his/her's particular faith is correct and all the other wrong.
I can provide such reasoning quite easily actually.
There is a problem though. My reasoning and yours are very different.
I had the same reason as you had (in the sense of not accepting the fact there is a God), I thought the same that the theists' logic is corrupt, something in the theistic thought is wrong.
Today i understand it was the other way around.
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Not all religions tout the idea that their story is true and all others are just stories.
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Its not relevant.
There can be million religions, all talking about the same thing in different words.
Native Americans for example, have stories about spirits and energies, all are part of the same force we call God.
They had a small understanding of the big picture.
Science, today, is in the same state. it's got only a small part of the puzzle figured out.
You'll be amazed to learn that if you analyze the world's religions, they usually all speak of different parts of the same puzzle.
Some religions take it to the next level and build mystical ideas around those pieces of puzzle, causing the religion to be rendered weird or at times abusive.
however, it is easy to point to the monotheistic, Mesionic, Abrahamic faiths as clearly in the category of exclusive claims to truth.
ALL religions, without an exception try to tell the same story. the Abrahamic religion, without a doubt, presents the most elaborated and full image that includes in it every aspect of reality as we know it and beyond.
Of great importance in this discussion is the fact that the common person is 80% likely to take on the faith of the culture they were raised in.
I Agree.
Sad.
This is usually an outcome of lack of education or a "forced religion".
You would be surprised at how many people adamantly reject the idea that they are a product of their community and geography when it comes to faith.
Same reason as the above.
I point out this fact because what I want are answers from those that truly considered their faith position apart from the way they were raised in as much as possible.
I can be counted as such candidate.
I was raised non religious. I still am non religious.
Although i learned some aspect of the Jewish religion, it was in the form of academic pov of the bible and not a religious pov.
So please give me your reasons that you believe that your faith is correct and all others are false.
There is one reason that led me to reconsider my dis-belief in God.
It is the most basic and simple reason that it simply works!
I hope I will not be censored, as I am not really trying to convince anyone to become religious
I am not religious myself!
But I will try and explain why I know it works:
The Jewish religion in its most basic form, simply works.
For me, it took much study and learning to understand how to see it. i was very negative regarding the possibility of a god, let alone the God.
But there is a small saying in the Jewish religion (quoted from the bible of course
), Try it and you'll find it.
It sounds very weird... but this is what i did.
NO! i did not try to be religious person in an instant. I do not pray 24/7, i do not dress differently, I am not religious.
The Jewish teaching explains to you how things work. more importantly, why they work as they do.
So I tried. very little, the main change was to change the way I look at things. change the way I experience things.
Going back to the electricity example, i don't know what it is, yet i have a clear understanding of its affect on my life.
It is so clear to me, that when i encounter someone who cannot see it it makes me wanna scream to him to open his eyes and see it (I of course don't do this
)
But before, I couldn't understand when people told me I am blind. i was irritated by this, Me? Blind? you are the one who believes in BS...
Wow! I was completely blind.
An important thing in the bible that many people don't take notice to, is the claim God give us.
It says that if you follow Gods way (of thought!) you will
KNOW it is true.
This might seem very odd to the atheist, but to me, it is actually knowing!
I Know, for a fact, without a shred of a doubt, that God is here. it is as clear as I know my kids are real.
I have zero knowledge what God is, nor will i ever have, i know that! but i can see its affect on me, my relatives, my friends, my co-workers, i see it all over, not seeing it can only be the result of not understanding how to look.
What do i mean when i say it works? it means that I read a prediction of how doing A will cause B, and BOOOOOM... it simply happens! not miracles, not angels or prayers or all that new edge thoughts, simple, actual things in my life, change drastically because i change the way i looked at things.
Black is not really black, it is much more
If this does not describe you then please tell me how you are able to be inclusive of other faiths.
So far, every ideas and concepts i have red and learned from many religions are all described in detail in the Jewish religion.
I mean that in the sense of explanations how the spiritual world works, not in things a religion asks you to do.
Yin and Yang as an example, is a fraction of the knowledge you can find in the Jewish texts.
Energies, Meditations, Observation, Consciousness, Self empowerment, Karma, Dharma, Balance, Prayer, Sound, Music, Silence, Physical "maintenance"..
Everything!
As one contains all the others and much much more, I have no reason to assume it is not true