Rape victim punished in UAE

[Revoltingest]

Why people blame religion for the weakness, wickedness, and ignorance of man? Religion is nothing but a vehicle. You can drive safely to your home everyday or you can make all kinds of accidents and hit people by it all day.

Tis because (right or wrong) there appears to be a correlation between a country
being Islamic, & that country's poor treatment of women views as sexually 'impure'.

 

[Bismillah]

There also is a correlation between education levels and economic prosperity along with women's rights.

 

[Revoltingest]

There also is a correlation between education levels and economic prosperity along with women's rights.

I don't dispute that....I also don't blame Islam.

 

[Bismillah]

Then I think we can all agree that the fundamental root is poverty and lack of education and that meaningful reform will only be found after we see an improvement in those two fields.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Then I think we can all agree that the fundamental root is poverty and lack of education and that meaningful reform will only be found after we see an improvement in those two fields.

It's not just about poverty or lack of education, though. That's too simplistic. Not every impoverished and uneducated place in the world stones women. And the government officials of Iran, Saudi Arabia, and other countries, who implement stoning as part of the legal system in these countries, are not impoverished or uneducated people. They simply believe in a view of women, and an "honor" system, in which it is sometimes okay to stone a person to death for certain crimes.

Now, is this the Islamic view? No. I'm not saying that. But there is a belief, and an ideology, about women, and about crime and punishment, that needs to be changed in many parts of the world. What is needed is not just education but also persuasion to a different point of view. I do not mean to equate Nazi Germany to any modern country, but consider Nazi Germany for a moment: we would never say that the Nazis were uneducated, or illiterate. Fighting Nazism was a matter of persuasion as much as education, and the same is true in the case of ideologies today which deny women's rights.

 

[beenie]

It's not just about poverty or lack of education, though. That's too simplistic. Not every impoverished and uneducated place in the world stones women. And the government officials of Iran, Saudi Arabia, and other countries, who implement stoning as part of the legal system in these countries, are not impoverished or uneducated people. They simply believe in a view of women, and an "honor" system, in which it is sometimes okay to stone a person to death for certain crimes.

Now, is this the Islamic view? No. I'm not saying that. But there is a belief, and an ideology, about women, and about crime and punishment, that needs to be changed in many parts of the world. What is needed is not just education but also persuasion to a different point of view. I do not mean to equate Nazi Germany to any modern country, but consider Nazi Germany for a moment: we would never say that the Nazis were uneducated, or illiterate. Fighting Nazism was a matter of persuasion as much as education, and the same is true in the case of ideologies today which deny women's rights.

Exactly. It's going to take more than a traditional education to get these people to change their ways. Some of the most "educated" people are the biggest offenders. They have to SEE and ACCEPT that their treatment of women needs revamping.

I'm not, however, discounting education. It's definitely a huge foundation and starting point, and will hopefully lead to persuasion as Mr. Spinkles suggested.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

That she was raped is bad but iam sorry it was kinda her own fault. At least now she knows how different countries around the world are.

Was it the fault of the African Americans who would be beaten and killed, for many generations, because they wanted to stay in America after slavery was abolished rather than go back to Africa? Was it Dr. Martin Luther King's fault for being assassinated because he spoke up for equality among all races? Is it the fault of the GLBT community when someone faces discrimination because they came out of the closet?

 

[Bismillah]

It's not just about poverty or lack of education, though.

I think it is. There is no obvious realization of fiqh given this particular case.

That's too simplistic.

Depends on the scenario.

Not every impoverished and uneducated place in the world stones women. And the government officials of Iran, Saudi Arabia, and other countries, who implement stoning as part of the legal system in these countries, are not impoverished or uneducated people.

Rather they are all autocratic governments that rely on brutal suppression as a means to an end. That they do these things in the name of Islam is a clever facade and appeal to the people to quell unrest.

They simply believe in a view of women, and an "honor" system, in which it is sometimes okay to stone a person to death for certain crimes.

Wahabism in its own is a fundamental lack of reasoning and the movement which has been described as "puritanical" and a return to "roots" is actually a rejection of thousands of years of Islamic theological science and universally accepted consensus.

There are many problems in today's world, almost all of them can be attributed to a lack of education.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Bismillah do you think every harmful ideology in history is a result of "lack of education"? British imperialism? German Nazism? Chinese Maoism? American racism?

What sets Islamic radicalism apart from these? If lack of good education and poverty explain it, why aren't women stoned in rural China for example? I think it's the opposite. I think you need education to cause people to behave in such a way -- but you need an education at a madrassah, instead of a liberal education.

Simple peasant farmers and poor and illiterate people in general do NOT stone women, simply because they are illiterate and/or poor, just as peasant farmers or factory workers do not believe in sophisticated ideologies about exterminating Jews or how the white man must ultimately conquer the Earth, or how Marxism must ultimately stamp out religion. You need to put people through an indoctrination system in order to get them to believe in such sophisticated absurdities. And when they come out of such indoctrination, it's misleading to say they are "uneducated". Such people are highly literate, eloquent, and very knowledgeable. To think Nazis were uneducated or that they were only "using" Nazism to control people is way off base, they were true believers and they were not uneducated. And I think the same is true of some of the Islamic radicals.