Questions for Atheists and Agnostics

[Trailblazer]

Belief is a condition of the mind. There are those that understand that the concept of God is beyond the mind's comprehension; that understand such a concept can only be realized through experience and cannot be reconciled in the human mind, but by the (higher) Self or by one's true nature.

I agree. The concept of God is beyond human comprehension. I believe that we can know some of God’s attributes and God’s will through what is revealed in religious scriptures, but that is all we can ever know about God. We can never know the Essence of God.

Why would an atheist or agnostic think this?

Probably because he wants God to show up so that he can believe in God.

 

[Trailblazer]

“Is there any reason to think that God, if God exists, would want 100% of people in the world to believe in Him?”
Are we talking about an omnipotent God here ?
If so, no.

I guess you said no because an omnipotent God would not need everyone to believe in Him?

“If God wanted everyone to believe in Him, what do you think God would do in order to accomplish that?”
Writing messages in the sky in a language that everyone would be able to understand, for example.

How would everyone see those messages and how would anyone know that they came from God? They could be from a space alien.

“Do you think that God can show up on earth? If so, how would God do that?”
Once again, are we talking about an omnipotent being ?
If so, then anything goes. Do you want a suggestion ? How about a rainbow-colored walking and talking flame ?

Yes, I am talking about an omnipotent God. Yes, anything goes, but only if the God wanted to do it.

 

[SalixIncendium]

I believe that we can know some of God’s attributes and God’s will through what is revealed in religious scriptures, but that is all we can ever know about God.

I think much about the concept of God has been lost through translation, embellishment, and misinterpretation with regard to 'God's attributes' in Scripture. Scripture was written by humans, and my experience with humans (the 'telephone game,' aka 'Chinese whispers' being a perfect example) leads me to read with a degree of skepticism. I personally favor experience over what is written.

 

[Trailblazer]

“Is there any reason to think that God, if God exists, would want 100% of people in the world to believe in Him?”
Only if said God express concern, is interventionist, judges and provide guidance for all of humanity.

I fully agree. Those are the only reasons a God would want everyone to believe in Him.

“If God wanted everyone to believe in Him, what do you think God would do in order to accomplish that?”
Actually communicate with individuals rather than representatives centuries removed the present or Billy Graham.

Do you think that God would choose certain individuals or would God communicate with everyone in the world?

“Do you think that God can show up on earth?”
No as "show up" require characteristics which would make God not God as God would be something detectable.

I fully agree. It could not be God since the Essence of God is unknowable.

 

[Willamena]

If God is, God can be believed in or not believed in, because God gives everyone that choice.

I believe in free will, but not in belief as a choice.

 

[Trailblazer]

That's a reason why I don't think there's even a God to begin with. The very fact that people go out of their way to try to convince other people is very telling.

You don't have the same thing going on for proving the existence of the Sun or the Moon, or a breeze blowing on your skin or the falling rain.

Do you meant that if God existed people would not have to go out of their way trying to convince people of that, because it would be as obvious as the Sun or the Moon? Why should God be so obvious to everyone?

Yet to some of us, the existence of God is THAT obvious.

It's noteworthy that a God or Gods, almost always touted as being omnipotent, almighty, magnificent in power and prose, or whatever descriptive term comes to mind, cannot hold up to those simple truths.

What do you think God would have to do in order to hold up to those simple truths?

 

[Trailblazer]

Is there any reason to think that God, if God exists, would want 100% of people in the world to believe in Him?
Yes, because I am often approached by theist who claim that their God WANTS me to know Him and His eternal love.

I do not care what that theist says. I only wanted to know what you think. What do YOU think god would want if god existed?

If God wanted everyone to believe in Him, what do you think God would do in order to accomplish that?
I can't speak for EVERYONE, but I can speak for myself. IF there is a creator god then this god knows that I will require verifiable evidence for its existence.

Yes, that is true, as we discussed before. God knows what you require since God knows everything.

Do you think that God can show up on earth? If so, how would God do that?
Of course, I have no reason to believe that any god actually does exist. However, I've often been told by those who do that their god is capable of ANYTHING. So according to THEM it would be really easy.

God cannot do ANYTHING. God can only do what it is within His Nature to DO.
So those people who told you that were wrong. An immaterial Spirit God cannot show up on a material earth.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Do you meant that if God existed people would not have to go out of their way trying to convince people of that, because it would be as obvious as the Sun or the Moon? Why should God be so obvious to everyone?

Yet to some of us, the existence of God is THAT obvious.

What do you think God would have to do in order to hold up to those simple truths?

The exact same thing by which those Simple Truths come about.

 

[Trailblazer]

"Why would you think that God would want people to believe in Him because of His ego?
God is not a human so God does not have an ego."

Abrahamic religions portray him as having such.

The religious scriptures do not portray God that way....
What happens is that some Abrahamic religious believers describe God, and then some other people project what they consider egotistical onto God.

For example, God is by nature All-Powerful and All-Knowing and All-Wise but that does not mean God is egotistical. God is just being God. God cannot be anything else.

 

[blü 2]

Is there any reason to think that God, if God exists, would want 100% of people in the world to believe in Him?

Golly, what a strange question to address to unbelievers!

If God wanted everyone to believe in Him, what do you think God would do in order to accomplish that?

If God were (a) real (b) omnipotent and (c) desirous that everyone believe in [him], then it follows that one snap of those almighty fingers and bingo! everyone would believe in God, surely?

Do you think that God can show up on earth? If so, how would God do that?

If God had objective existence, then the difficulties [he]'d need to overcome to show up on Earth would be those of the particular being [he] is. Alas, no one knows how God (being real, not imaginary, having objective existence) in fact functions. Does [he] breathe Terran air? Can [he] withstand Terran gravity? Can [he] live on Terran food? Does [he] have special requirements? What about [his] entourage ─ security, drivers, PAs, advisers, medic, cleaners, can they function in Earth conditions?

 

[Trailblazer]

I think much about the concept of God has been lost through translation, embellishment, and misinterpretation with regard to 'God's attributes' in Scripture. Scripture was written by humans, and my experience with humans (the 'telephone game,' aka 'Chinese whispers' being a perfect example) leads me to read with a degree of skepticism. I personally favor experience over what is written.

I agree that a lot has been lost through translation, embellishment, and misinterpretation with regard to 'God's attributes' in Scripture.

The Bible scriptures were written by fallible humans, but the Baha’i scriptures were written by Baha’u’llah, a Manifestation of God who was a divine human, thus infallible. As such I believe what He wrote about God is the absolute truth, but of course we still have to interpret what it means.

If we are in tune with our higher self and our true nature, we can experience God’s attributes in ourselves and in all of creation. Not everyone can do that, which is why the scriptures are also necessary.

 

[Trailblazer]

“If God is, God can be believed in or not believed in, because God gives everyone that choice.”

I believe in free will, but not in belief as a choice.

I believe that there is a degree of choice, but not everyone can choose to believe because there are so many constraints on human free will.
I also believe God takes those constraints into consideration.
I also believe that is why God does not expect or require 100% belief.

I believe that God guides whomsoever He wills, but I do not believe that everyone else is punished for not believing. That would not be just.

 

[Trailblazer]

The exact same thing by which those Simple Truths come about.

I do not understand what you mean.

 

[Willamena]

I believe that there is a degree of choice, but not everyone can choose to believe because there are so many constraints on human free will.
I also believe God takes those constraints into consideration.
I also believe that is why God does not expect or require 100% belief.

I believe that God guides whomsoever He wills, but I do not believe that everyone else is punished for not believing. That would not be just.

I would agree to a degree of belief, but belief as a choice is nothing more than make-belief.

 

[Father Heathen]

The religious scriptures do not portray God that way....
What happens is that some Abrahamic religious believers describe God, and then some other people project what they consider egotistical onto God.

For example, God is by nature All-Powerful and All-Knowing and All-Wise but that does not mean God is egotistical. God is just being God. God cannot be anything else.

How is the desire to be worshiped and the desire to punish for not being worshiped not ego driven?

 

[Twilight Hue]

I do not understand what you mean.

Let's put it this way, do people need to argue or attempt to convince and persuade people regarding the existence of the rain or sun?

You asked what would God have to do?

Well the rain and the sun I don't need any convincing. I'm sure all of us knows how that comes about.

God would have to need to do that. In order for us to acknowledge and determine there is in fact a God. Would require an actual God.

 

[Trailblazer]

“Is there any reason to think that God, if God exists, would want 100% of people in the world to believe in Him?”

Golly, what a strange question to address to unbelievers!

It is strange isn’t it? I guess I can come clean now. What precipitated the OP is my atheist friend on another forum. He absolutely insists that if god exists god would want 100% of people in the world to believe in Him. There is more that he insists upon, but I am keeping that under my hat for now.

“If God wanted everyone to believe in Him, what do you think God would do in order to accomplish that?”
If God were (a) real (b) omnipotent and (c) desirous that everyone believe in [him], then it follows that one snap of those almighty fingers and bingo! everyone would believe in God, surely?

That is true. Baha’u’llah quoted the Qur’an as saying that God could have made all men one people. In the context of the passage, it means that God could have made all people believers. I assume that means God could prove to everyone that He exists in some fashion.

“He Who is the Day Spring of Truth is, no doubt, fully capable of rescuing from such remoteness wayward souls and of causing them to draw nigh unto His court and attain His Presence. “If God had pleased He had surely made all men one people.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 71

So my question to atheists and agnostics is HOW they think God could make everyone believe in Him. What specifically would God do?

“Do you think that God can show up on earth? If so, how would God do that?”
If God had objective existence, then the difficulties [he]'d need to overcome to show up on Earth would be those of the particular being [he] is. Alas, no one knows how God (being real, not imaginary, having objective existence) in fact functions. Does [he] breathe Terran air? Can [he] withstand Terran gravity? Can [he] live on Terran food? Does [he] have special requirements? What about [his] entourage ─ security, drivers, PAs, advisers, medic, cleaners, can they function in Earth conditions?

Abrahamic religious believers believe that God is an immaterial Spirit (whatever that means). So we believe that God is not a material being with objective existence. So from that we deduce that God is not “subject” to anything that you noted above. Actually, God is not subject to anything but Himself, since God is fully self-subsisting and fully self-sufficient.

 

[Sir Doom]

Is there any reason to think that God, if God exists, would want 100% of people in the world to believe in Him?

There are reasons to believe it, but nothing I consider compelling. God seems keen to stay in mystery as far as I can tell.

If God wanted everyone to believe in Him, what do you think God would do in order to accomplish that?

Buy an advertising slot during the Superbowl and make a hilarious video. Plenty of things would work assuming the being is, in fact, God.

Do you think that God can show up on earth? If so, how would God do that?

He could arrive riding a flying spaghetti monster. That would be pretty memorable not to mention hilarious.

 

[SalixIncendium]

I agree that a lot has been lost through translation, embellishment, and misinterpretation with regard to 'God's attributes' in Scripture.

The Bible scriptures were written by fallible humans, but the Baha’i scriptures were written by Baha’u’llah, a Manifestation of God who was a divine human, thus infallible. As such I believe what He wrote about God is the absolute truth, but of course we still have to interpret what it means.

Can you please provide a link to these Baha'u'llah scriptures? I'd like to familiarize myself with them before I comment further.

 

[Trailblazer]

I would agree to a degree of belief, but belief as a choice is nothing more than make-belief.

Sorry, I stated that clumsily... I meant that to a certain degree belief is a choice, but it is not something people are always able to choose.
In other words, there is an element of choice, but only God knows how much "freedom" anyone has to choose, since God is All-Knowing. That is why no believer has the right to judge any nonbeliever's choices.