IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
My goodness. Do you not know how to google a definition?
It makes them an entirely different religion.
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Questions about Christianity and Mormonism
- Thread starter Ehav4Ever
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It makes them an entirely different religion.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
No, you are misrepresenting Mormonism, which rejects the trinity. Again, look up henotheism.
No, I’m not. It looks like you are misrepresenting them.
It was a waste of time to look this up because I knew it would not fit the beliefs of Mormons, but here’s the definition:
Henotheism (from Greek ἑνός θεοῦ (henos theou) 'of one god') is the worship of a single, supreme god while not denying the existence or possible existence of other lower deities.
Mormonism has not defined God the father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit in the manner of henotheism. That is your interpretation.
A Christian is someone who accepts Jesus Christ as Savior.
Here are some definitions of Christian:
Definition #1 from Merriam dictionary:
Definition of Christian. 1: one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ.
A college essay: Being a Christian means a person believes Jesus is the only way one may be forgiven of their sins and receive eternal life.
From dictionary.com:
Christian
1adjective
*of, relating to, or derived from Jesus Christ or His teachings: a Christian faith.
*of, pertaining to, believing in, or belonging to the religion based on the teachings of Jesus Christ
*of or relating to Christians
*exhibiting a spirit proper to a follower of Jesus Christ; Christlike:
noun
*a person who believes in Jesus Christ;
*a person who exemplifies in his or her life the teachings of Christ:
The word Christian means, “follower of Christ” or “belonging to the party of Christ.”
Christian
The word Christian comes from the Greek word christianos which is derived from the word christos or Christ, which means “anointed one.” A Christian, then, is someone who is a follower of Christ.
The term “Christian,” as we understand it, refers to anyone, man, woman, or child, who trusts in Jesus Christ as his or her Savior and Lord and who strives to follow Him in every area of life.
Cambridge Dictionary: of or belonging to the religion based on the teachingsof Jesus Christ:
I don’t use Google.
It does not make them an entirely different religion. The religion doesn’t fit the definition.
Apparently, YOU don’t know how to search for the definition of Christian.
Here is why we shouldn't say that LDS aren't or the JW's aren't or that Orthodox aren't etc. First of all love should be held up as more important than doctrines, though usually it isn't. Groups that claim to be more Christian the others are ironically undermining their own claim by doing so.
We learn to be exclusive from groups that make us feel unloved. The protestants break from the Catholics, then some of them found isolationist groups in the USA. Many of us grow up like little Oliver Twist in a dumpy little orphanage, and that's where we learn to be mean and exclusive and frumpy about doctrines. Protestant canon letter of 1 John says "Love is of God, and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God." It seems logically then that wherever there is love, that is a good place and to avoid places where doctrines are held up as more important.
"The spirit goes where it wills..." from John 3. Its natural to think that doctrines and having the right teachers is extremely important, but I think that is relatively unimportant in Christ. What good has it accomplished? Some aren't able to see it, but moral behavior has value no matter where it is practiced or by whom.
Many groups have answered this with action: Quakers, Universalists among them. The answer they give is to risk the talent instead of burying it, to not judge, to let truth shine down from God to the self. Why are there scriptures that say "Let God be true and every man a liar?" Why don't they instead say "Let every man be true lest he be judged by God?"
By risking the talent I do not mean to imply anyone should let themselves be abused. Escape from abuse.
I describe the LDS as Christians, because they are no less Christian to me than, say, Baptists or JW's or Orthodox or Catholics. Let all share in a great forgetting and have one large communion once a year to honor Christ instead of yourselves. I don't know how, but it would be a great thing.
I think it would be better for LDS and other Christians to simply accept wrong doctrines than to be judgy. Its better to wear pink stripes and dance upon your heads than to go naked and starve, given the choice.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
That is correct. Mormons actually believe in the existence of many dieties -- but they only worship one, the Father. They believe that the Father was once a creation which has made it to god status. They believe in theosis, humans and God are essentially the same sort of being and that their men (yes this is sexist) will some day be gods of their own planets, which they will populate with their own spirit-children. Jesus is also an example of someone who was born a man, but made it to god-status. They believe that the father, son , and holy spirit share a commonality of purpose, not of essense as in Trinitarianism--the "Godhead" to Mormons is a council of the three distinct beings, rather than One God, as in Trinitarianism. They believe in the Heavenly Mother -- that the Father has a goddess wife.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
You don't use google to seek out dictionary definitions? Suit yourself.
Amen to this twenty times over!
You can wish that there were official doctrines for Christians, but you cannot actually find a consistent authority to guarantee that. You can only find claimants, but they are undermined by the NT letters and gospels.
An orthodox Jewish person might find this alarming, but in the canonized gospel of John Jesus says that he isn't going to teach his disciples a complete set of teachings. This derives from an embrace of Jeremiah 31 which affects all of the NT. There are allusions in the gospels to Jeremiah 31 (that is where Christian bibles reference the verse). When a gospel quotes "A voice is heard in Ramah of Rachel weeping for her children" it is alluding to Jeremiah 31 and everything in it including the idea that the law will be written on the heart and no longer will one man teach another to know the L-RD. I could write a 20 page document about references to this idea in the NT.
It may be confusing that Christians still do have teachers, but these teachers operate differently. They don't have authority (or shouldn't). They are not official.
Instead disciples of Jesus will be given guidance divinely. From the very beginning Jesus opposes and sets aside the idea of teacher-student. He makes a mockery of the disciple selection process. He doesn't teach his disciples everything, and instead of speaking clearly he says things that confound the crowds. He tells his disciples that its on purpose to keep the crowd from understanding him -- yes to keep himself from being audibly understood.
Mormons don’t believe in the most basic tenets of the Trinity. The “Jesus” they believe in is not the Jesus of the Trinity. It’s as simple as that.
I have no idea what anti-Mormon website you’re talking about.
As I’ve said, the Jesus they believe in is not th Jesus if the Trinity.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Yes, we are definitely a separate religion. We are restoration Christianity and they are mainstream Christianity.
Now you're arguing semantics. Mormons worship one God (aka Godhead) that is made up of a Father, a Son, and a Holy Ghost. These three are physically distinct from each other, but each of them has the right to be known as "God." They are absolutely and perfectly "one" in will, purpose, mind, and heart. We worship them as "one God."
Sand Dancer
Crazy Cat Lady
How? Denominations have different views about many things. Are churches that change their names to a generic name so they can get new people in, but preach the same old stuff deceitful? There were so many different kinds of Christianity early on, yet the powers that be decided what was canon and made sure the opposition was snuffed out, sometimes literally. To me, that is deceitful.
Sand Dancer
Crazy Cat Lady
The trinity concept didn't exist when Jesus was around. It was hundreds of years later. Jesus was a Jew.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
If I thought you were actually looking for accurate information on LDS teachings, I'd take the time to explain the many ways in which you have misrepresented what we really believe and have created a caricature of the truth. I honestly don't think you want to get your facts straight, though. If you didn't get some kind of payback out of believing disinformation, you'd choose to stop doing it. Unfortunately, my time is too valuable for me to waste it trying to fight your confirmation biases.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Yes, there is a lot of variety among Christians. But there are stilll some hard core doctrines that don't change, and monotheism is one of them.
Look, I don't understand what is so bad about being a religion different than Christianity. I'm Jewish, and it doesn't bother me at all to say "I'm not a Christian."
You know very well that what Mormons mean by "Godhead" isn't a single individual. For you, the father, son, and hs, are three separate gods. PLUS who knows how many other gods there are out there that are unknonw, given that you guys believe that humans and God are essentially made up of the same stuff and that mormon dudes become gods of their own worlds some day. So yeah, you guys believe in many gods (though you worship only one) and Mainstream Chrsitans believe in one God (though they muck it up with trinitarianism). Two different religions.
At first Christianity appears not to like Judaism. I'm having difficulty interpreting some of the NT material about Israel and Judaism. The book Revelation says the Earth will be destroyed by fervent heat, and Earth seems possibly to be a reference to Israel. There are different possibilities of what that all means. Part of the gospel of John reads (on its surface) like an accusation against the Jews. Modern Christian passion plays notoriously represent Jews and Pharisees as backward people. I consider all of this very unhealthy for Christians and possibly spells our eventual doom. But assuming we are not doomed...
Why I talk this way is that Christian texts are in a strange mirror world. When we accuse people of things we are bringing judgment upon ourselves. That includes accusations against erroneous doctrine. I can support that with NT passages and lots of them. Lets say that Christianity survives all of this judging and figures out tolerance and humility. I don't think the NT actually condemns Jews or Judaism nor other religions nor you nor Mormons nor anybody, so there is hope for Christians. If we act in complete accord with the writings left in the NT then God will straighten out all misunderstandings, and its our love which prevails not our knowledge.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
That's good to know, because you know what? I'm a Christian, and it doesn't bother me at all to say, "I'm not a Jew."
I have a feeling, though, that if I were to tell you you're not a real Jew and then proceed to tell you what you actually believe and how your beliefs don't qualify you to call yourself a Jew, you might see thins just a bit differently.For crying out loud, do you just see that I've posted something and then respond without even reading my comments? I just got through saying that the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are "physically distinct from each other," so yeah, the Godhead isn't a single individual. The word "God" can be used in the singular to refer to any of the three personages in the Godhead. It can also be used collectively to refer to all three of them.
Watchmen would undoubtedly agree with you. The Book of Mormon, however, does not. It is very specific is saying that they are "one God." Maybe Christians do believe that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are the same individual. If they do, they have a lot of explaining to do. I've never heard of a father who is his own son, or visa versa. I've never known of someone who claims that he is greater than himself. I've never known of someone who asked for favors of himself. The complete lack of logic in the concept of the Trinity is enough, in and of itself, to keep me from believing in it. And yet, I will never be so audacious as to tell a Trinitarian Christian that he's not a real Christian. That's above my paygrade.
The Bible says that the God of Abraham is a "God of gods" and that He is "a great God." If no other deities even existed, why on earth did God believe He had to tell your people that they should have no other gods before Him"?
Regarding the idea that Mormons believe they'll become gods when they die, I'll start by quoting C.S. Lewis, whose understanding of the doctrine of deification very closely resembles that of the Latter-day Saints'. He said, "The command 'Be ye perfect' is not idealistic gas. Nor is it a command to do the impossible. He is going to make us into creatures that can obey that command. He said (in the Bible) that we were gods and He is going to make good His words. If we let Him, for we can prevent Him, if we choose. He will make the feeblest and filthiest of us into a god or goddess, dazzling, radiant, immortal creature, pulsating all through with such energy and joy and wisdom and love as we cannot now imagine, a bright stainless mirror which reflects back to God perfectly (though, of course, on a smaller scale) His own boundless power and delight and goodness. The process will be long and in parts very painful; but that is what we are in for. Nothing less. He meant what He said."
To the best of my knowledge, nobody has ever accused C.S. Lewis of claiming that men can become gods of their own planet someday. Nor has anybody ever accused any of the early Church fathers of making such a claim either.
In the second century, Saint Irenaeus said, “If the Word became a man, it was so men may become gods.” He also posed this question: “Do we cast blame on Him (God) because we were not made gods from the beginning, but were at first created merely as men, and then later as gods?” At about the same period of time, Saint Clement made this statement: “The Word of God became a man so that you might learn from a man how to become a god.” And Saint Justin Martyr agreed, saying that men are “deemed worthy of becoming gods and of having power to become sons of the highest.” Some two centuries later, Athanasius explained that “the Word was made flesh in order that we might be enabled to be made gods. He became man that we might be made divine.” And, finally, Augustine, said, “But He that justifies also deifies, for by justifying he makes sons of God. For he has given them power to become the sons of God. If then we have been made sons of God, we have also been made gods.”
Becoming "gods" does not mean the same thing to us as it apparently means to those who are critical of our theology. First of all, we do not believe that any of us will ever be equal to God, our Eternal Father in Heaven. He will always be our God and we will always worship Him. Secondly, nothing we could possibly do on our own could exalt us to the level of deity. It is only through the will and grace of God that man is given this potential. And "with God, nothing is impossible."
When Adam and Eve were cast out of the Garden, God made the following statement (as recorded in Genesis 3:22), "Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil..." Clearly, becoming as God is requires a knowledge of both good and evil. When Adam and Eve ate from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, the result was that they did in fact, gain this knowledge and thus, took the first step towards becoming like their Father in Heaven. By the way, who do you believe God was referring to when He used the pronoun, "us"?
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I don't think you can quote Bart Ehman - an appeal to authority fallacy.
Although there might not be a single cannon accepted world wide... you would find it to be a very small minority and then, in those which are accepted, may have no argument whatsoever. In other words, if you subtract the Apocrypha, there just might not be any disagreement whatsoever.
Let scriptures are just that... lost. And those that did not make it, there were reasons behind it.
Bree
Active Member
If Joseph smith was a true prophet, his teachings would not contradict the bible. Unfortunately they do contradict the teachings of the bible. A notable one being the mormon teaching that humans existed as spriits before they became humans.
Moses wrote the account in Genesis about the creation of mankind and he said that God took the 'dust from the ground' and formed it into a man. And when Adam sinned, he wrote Gods words "from dust you are and to dust you will return"
are Mormons correctly holding by Christian requirements for salvation?
Christians who practice mormonism are just like any other christian, they worship God in the way they are taught to. Thats commendable. Many put forth great effort to uphold their beliefs and faith and that is commendable. One of Gods requirements for salvation is that we maintain our faith in his promises and in the work he will do for mankind. Muslims also do this, as do hindu's and many other religions because humans have been designed to 'follow' and that it why God calls us his 'sheep'. The question we should all ask ourselves as christians is "Is my faith based on truth?" And If its not based on truth, is salvation still possible? Because it is up to us to 'choose' a religion to follow, we want to be absolutely sure it is based on truth.
are Mormons correctly following the teachings of Jesus ; are there negative consequences to someone believing in Mormanism??
they participate in a preaching work and that is commendable. That is what Jesus instructed his followers to do. But do mormons follow the teachings of Joseph Smith or Jesus Christ? That is a question worth asking. Jesus said John 14:6 “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me...."
If mormons are following Joseph's teachings, where do Jesus teachings fit in to their theology?
are the varous Mormon books/writings, shown below, considered authorative Christian scripture? If not, what makes them not so?
No they are not.
Christian scripture was completed at the end of the first century of our common era by the last remaining Apostle, John.
Jesus 12 apostles were the only ones who were given authority to record his teachings and establish the Christian faith. Mormonism is an offshoot of christianity and it is based on the teachings of Joseph Smith. These teachings contradict Jesus and the Apostles on many counts.
Any honest person would have to admit that mormonism is not a part of Christianity...its is a new religion based on its own scriptures written by Joseph smith. It is not christianity even if it claims to believe in Jesus. Mohammad claimed to believe in Jesus too....but no one would say that Islam is a christian religion.