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Questions about Christianity and Mormonism

Ehav4Ever

Well-Known Member
I have a few questions for non-Mormon Christians about their views of Mormonism.
  1. According to non-Mormon Christianity, was Joseph Smith a prophet?
    • If he was not, why not?
    • What parts of the New Testament disqualifies him?
  2. According to non-Mormon Christianity are Mormons correctly holding by Christian requirements for salvation?
  3. According to non-Mormon Christianity are Mormons correctly following the teachings of Jesus?
  4. According to non-Mormon Christianity are there negative consequences to someone beleiving in Mormanism?
  5. According to non-Mormon Christianity are the varous Mormon books/writings, shown below, considered authorative Christian scripture?
    • If not, what makes them not so?
    • If not, would non-Mormons benefit froom reading and learning from them?
upload_2021-3-29_8-49-58.png
 
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Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
I'm not sure why you're bothering to ask. Of course we don't accept Smith as any sort of prophet or Mormon scripture as canon.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
But why not? What was he lacking? What are the Mormon scriptures lacking to authenticate them for non-Mormon Christians?
You might as well ask why Christians don't accept Mohammad or Baháʼu'lláh as prophets or accept their scriptures. The answers would be much the same. They taught things that are opposed to what orthodox (Nicene) Christianity teaches. They basically made up their own religions that have little to do with historical Christianity, and what's more, flat out deny key Christian doctrines (like the Trinity) and the very validity of the faith.
 
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Batya

Always Forward
I have a few questions for non-Mormon Christians about their views of Mormonism.
  1. According to non-Mormon Christianity, was Joseph Smith a prophet?
    • If he was not, why not?
    • What parts of the New Testament disqualifies him?
  2. According to non-Mormon Christianity are Mormons correctly holding by Christian requirements for salvation?
  3. According to non-Mormon Christianity Mormons correctly following the teachings of Jesus?
  4. According to non-Mormon Christianity are there negative consequences to someone beleiving in Mormanism?
  5. According to non-Mormon Christianity are the varous Mormon books/writings, shown below, considered authorative Christian scripture?
    • If not, what makes them not so?
    • If not, would non-Mormons benefit froom reading and learning from them?
View attachment 48944
Wish I had something for you on this...I read a bit about Mormonism a while back, but honestly haven't delved into this topic a whole lot. I don't really know enough about it to discuss their beliefs in relation to mine or traditional Christianity. I did start reading the Book of Mormon once, but didn't make it very far, it just seemed sort of foreign to me.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
You might as well ask why Christians don't accept Mohammad or Baháʼu'lláh as prophets or accept their scriptures. The answers would be much the same. They taught things that are opposed to what orthodox (Nicene) Christianity teaches. They basically made up their own religions that have little to do with historical Christianity, and what's more, flat out deny key Christian doctrines (like the Trinity) and the very validity of the faith.
Could you be more specific please? You might start with showing us where in the Bible, the Trinity (as defined by the 4th and 5th century creeds) is taught. Mormonism is much closer to ancient Judeo-Christianity than Hellenized Christianity is.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
Could you be more specific please? You might start with showing us where in the Bible, the Trinity (as defined by the 4th and 5th century creeds) is taught. Mormonism is much closer to ancient Judeo-Christianity than Hellenized Christianity is.
I'm not here to debate with you, as that would be a waste of time as neither of us are going to change our minds. This isn't in the Debate area, anyway. I was just answering the OP.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
A simple, reasonable conclusion. ^^
Simple, yes. Reasonable? I don't know how reasonable it is. Somebody talks about how Mormonism isn't "real" Christianity and everybody starts handing out "likes," without really even knowing all that much about the subject.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
I'm not here to debate with you, as that would be a waste of time as neither of us are going to change our minds. This isn't in the Debate area, anyway. I was just answering the OP.
Okay, but you made a claim that the Trinity is a "key Christian doctrine" that Mormons don't support. It didn't become a "key Christian doctrine" until 325 years after Christ's ministry, so I guess Mormons are in pretty good company. Just sayin'.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
Okay, but you made a claim that the Trinity is a "key Christian doctrine" that Mormons don't support. It didn't become a "key Christian doctrine" until 325 years after Christ's ministry, so I guess Mormons are in pretty good company. Just sayin'.
If you're really so curious, here you go: Trinity

This was settled centuries ago. That's just the normative view of Christianity, and your religion doesn't share it. I don't see the point of arguing about it anymore. It will change nothing. You either agree with it or not. :shrug:
 

Rival

se Dex me saut.
Staff member
Premium Member
Could you be more specific please? You might start with showing us where in the Bible, the Trinity (as defined by the 4th and 5th century creeds) is taught. Mormonism is much closer to ancient Judeo-Christianity than Hellenized Christianity is.
The Bible isn't the be all and end all. Holy Tradition and the Scriptures are on the same level in Catholic and Orthodox Christianity. The Bible is a product of the Church, not the other way around; not every single thing must be said word for word in the Scriptures.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
If you're really so curious, here you go: Trinity
Surely you know that I am already familiar with how the doctrine of the Trinity came into being.

This was settled centuries ago. That's just the normative view of Christianity, and your religion doesn't share it. I don't see the point of arguing about it anymore. It will change nothing. You either agree with it or not. :shrug:
Yes, it was settled centuries ago at a council convened by a political figure, and not even attended by the Pope. The nature of God was determined by a majority vote and the individuals who voted contrary to the majority were deemed heretics and thrown into exile. You're looking at what has been "normative" since the 4th and 5th centuries. I'm looking at what was "normative" in the 1st century. The language, terminology and concepts of the early creeds by which orthodoxy was defined would have been completely outside of the way a first-century Jewish convert to Christianity understood the relationship between the Almighty God and His Son, Jesus Christ.

We don't need to "argue." You just answered the OP and I just answered you. But if it will make everybody happy, Mormons don't even want to be thought of as being part of "normative," "mainline," "traditional" or "orthodox" Christianity. We just want the the world to recognize that we do worship Jesus Christ. We do believe He is God. We even believe that He and His Father are "one" -- just not "one" in the same way most other Christians believe they are.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
I'm looking at what was "normative" in the 1st century. The language, terminology and concepts of the early creeds by which orthodoxy was defined would have been completely outside of the way a first-century Jewish convert to Christianity understood the relationship between the Almighty God and His Son, Jesus Christ.
What the Early Church Believed: The Trinity

Now do you have proof that the early Christians believed that God was once like humans but then became "exalted" to the level of a deity, that God the Father has a physical form, that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are 3 separate beings and that marriage lasts beyond death?

I already know what the answer to that is, so I wonder what the point of this is.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
I'm sorry, but that still doesn't address the claims made in the early creeds, especially the Athanasian Creed. Many of the statements you provided could just easily be used to support LDS claims as Catholic claims. The Bible speaks of a Father, a Son and a Holy Spirit, but it does not speak of God as a "substance" and it says virtually nothing about the concept of the Father and the Son as either homoousios or homoiousios. This is Greek philosophy, pure and simple. It isn't what Jesus taught and it's not what His apostles taught.

Now do you have proof that the early Christians believed that God was once like humans but then became "exalted" to the level of a deity, that God the Father has a physical form, that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are 3 separate beings and that marriage lasts beyond death?
I don't have proof of anything, and neither do you. I could definitely argue that the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are three separate personages, and I could do so using solely the Bible. As for whether marriage lasts beyond death, I believe it does. You believe it doesn't. Neither of us knows for sure.
 
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dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Simple, yes. Reasonable? I don't know how reasonable it is. Somebody talks about how Mormonism isn't "real" Christianity and everybody starts handing out "likes," without really even knowing all that much about the subject.
It's reasonable in the same way that a Mormon might not accept the Qur'an.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
I'm sorry, but that still doesn't address the claims made in the early creeds, especially the Athanasian Creed. Many of the statements you provided could just easily be used to support LDS claims as Catholic claims. The Bible speaks of a Father, a Son and a Holy Spirit, but it does not speak of God as a "substance" and it says virtually nothing about the concept of the Father and the Son as either homoousios or homoiousios. This is Greek philosophy, pure and simple. It isn't what Jesus taught and it's not what His apostles taught.

I don't have proof of anything, and neither do you. I could definitely argue that the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are three separate personages, and I could do so using solely the Bible. As for whether marriage lasts beyond death, I believe it does. You believe it doesn't. Neither of us knows for sure.
I'm not exactly sure why Mormons (this goes for the JWs, too) care so much about the Bible says, honestly, because the Bible is a product of the Church. It is not like what Muslims believe about the Qur'an, that it was handed down from God directly. It took centuries for the Christian Bible canon to be assembled and standardized, far long after the Mormons and JWs say their fantasy "great apostasy" occured. (The first NT canon wasn't assembled until around 200 AD and it took more centuries for the Bible we have now to appear.)

Now, the JWs use their own faulty, incorrect translation (but still use the same Protestant canon created by "apostates", so they're not off the hook) but Mormons use the KJV.

So maybe you should answer why Mormons are using a book created by "apostates"? How does that make sense?
 

McBell

Admiral Obvious
I'm not exactly sure why Mormons (this goes for the JWs, too) care so much about the Bible says, honestly, because the Bible is a product of the Church. It is not like what Muslims believe about the Qur'an, that it was handed down from God directly. It took centuries for the Christian Bible canon to be assembled and standardized, far long after the Mormons and JWs say their fantasy "great apostasy" occured. (The first NT canon wasn't assembled until around 200 AD and it took more centuries for the Bible we have now to appear.)

Now, the JWs use their own faulty, incorrect translation (but still use the same Protestant canon created by "apostates", so they're not off the hook) but Mormons use the KJV.

So maybe you should answer why Mormons are using a book created by "apostates"? How does that make sense?
Gotta love all that Christian© judgment going on in this here post.

One wonders which Apostate version of the Bible you like best.

BTW, How is the weather way up there on top that horse?
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
Gotta love all that Christian© judgment going on in this here post.

One wonders which Apostate version of the Bible you like best.

BTW, How is the weather way up there on top that horse?
It's an honest question. I have no idea what you're talking about? "Judgement"? It's a theological discussion. Do you know anything about Mormon theology? They're the ones who call all other Christians apostates. So do the JWs. That was what that was referring to.
 
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