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Questions about Christianity and Mormonism

Firelight

Inactive member
As I’ve said, the Jesus they believe in is not th Jesus if the Trinity.


The Jesus of the Trinity is the Savior, is he not? There is only one Jesus who is Savior. Or do you believe the Jesus of the Trinity is something else? Perhaps it’s you who isn’t a Christian or don’t know what a Christian is.

See post #123 for definitions of “Christian.” Do a search on your own to see how Christians define themselves.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
If Joseph smith was a true prophet, his teachings would not contradict the bible. Unfortunately they do contradict the teachings of the bible. A notable one being the mormon teaching that humans existed as spriits before they became humans.
Where in the Bible does it say that God created our spirits at the moment of our birth rather than prior to our birth? As far as I know, the Bible is silent on the timing of when our spirits were created (although I do know of several places in which the Bible hints at the pre-mortal life of man).

Moses wrote the account in Genesis about the creation of mankind and he said that God took the 'dust from the ground' and formed it into a man. And when Adam sinned, he wrote Gods words "from dust you are and to dust you will return"
I believe this is a reference to the physical body and not to the human spirit.

are Mormons correctly holding by Christian requirements for salvation?
Christians who practice mormonism are just like any other christian, they worship God in the way they are taught to. Thats commendable. Many put forth great effort to uphold their beliefs and faith and that is commendable. One of Gods requirements for salvation is that we maintain our faith in his promises and in the work he will do for mankind. Muslims also do this, as do hindu's and many other religions because humans have been designed to 'follow' and that it why God calls us his 'sheep'. The question we should all ask ourselves as christians is "Is my faith based on truth?" And If its not based on truth, is salvation still possible? Because it is up to us to 'choose' a religion to follow, we want to be absolutely sure it is based on truth.
I agree that God wants all of us to search for truth and once we believe we've found it, to live in accordance with what the Holy Spirit has confirmed to us is true. Having said that, I believe that when we stand before God to be judged, He's going to have no problem at all correcting any of our misunderstandings and misinterpretations of doctrine. Even He, though, isn't going to be able to change the way in which we lived our lives and treated our fellow human beings. That's going to end up being on us.

are Mormons correctly following the teachings of Jesus ; are there negative consequences to someone believing in Mormanism??
they participate in a preaching work and that is commendable. That is what Jesus instructed his followers to do. But do mormons follow the teachings of Joseph Smith or Jesus Christ? That is a question worth asking. Jesus said John 14:6 “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me...."
If mormons are following Joseph's teachings, where do Jesus teachings fit in to their theology?
Well, for starters, the name of our church is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saint. It is not The Church of Joseph Smith. We believe that Jesus Christ is the Only Begotten Son of God and the only means by which mankind may ultimately reconciled to God. Joseph Smith taught, "The fundamental principles of our religion are the testimony of the Apostles and Prophets, concerning Jesus Christ, that He died, was buried, and rose again the third day, and ascended into heaven; and all other things which pertain to our religion are only appendages to it." There are over 3900 references to Jesus Christ in The Book of Mormon. It's central purpose, as stated on the title page is, “to the convincing of Jew and Gentile that Jesus is the Christ, the eternal God.”

are the varous Mormon books/writings, shown below, considered authorative Christian scripture? If not, what makes them not so?
No they are not.
"Scripture" is the sacred writings of a religion. Jews have scripture; Muslims have scripture; Baha'is have scripture and Christians have scripture. Protestants do not accept the Apocrypha as scripture and yet the Catholics do. What is or is not "scripture" is based on the beliefs of the group using the writings.

Christian scripture was completed at the end of the first century of our common era by the last remaining Apostle, John.
Jesus 12 apostles were the only ones who were given authority to record his teachings and establish the Christian faith.
Hmmm. Where does the Bible tell us this? I'm unaware of God having ever put a gag order on Himself. If God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow, it stands to reason that He would love us enough today to continue to keep in touch.

Mormonism is an offshoot of christianity and it is based on the teachings of Joseph Smith. These teachings contradict Jesus and the Apostles on many counts.
I believe they contradict your own interpretation of those teachings.

Any honest person would have to admit that mormonism is not a part of Christianity.
I'll be damned. I guess I'm not very honest then.

its is a new religion based on its own scriptures written by Joseph smith. It is not christianity even if it claims to believe in Jesus. Mohammad claimed to believe in Jesus too....but no one would say that Islam is a christian religion.
Does Islam claim that Jesus Christ is God's Only Begotten Son and that we can be reconciled to God only through Christ's Atonement? I think not.

Note: @Bree, I just noticed that you're a Jehovah's Witness. Now when it comes to someone telling someone else that they're not a real Christian, you have perfectly demonstrated what it means for "the pot to be calling the kettle black." Come to think of it, you guys don't believe anybody but your fellow Jehovah's Witnesses are genuine Christians, do you? Everybody but you is just part of "Christendom." See, I used to stick up for the Jehovah's Witnesses when people started slamming them. That's because I saw a lot of people bad-mouthing them, just like they bad-mouth the Latter-day Saints. I stopped doing that after having spent time on this forum and interacting with a few of them.
 
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Firelight

Inactive member
That is correct. Mormons actually believe in the existence of many dieties -- but they only worship one, the Father. They believe that the Father was once a creation which has made it to god status. They believe in theosis, humans and God are essentially the same sort of being and that their men (yes this is sexist) will some day be gods of their own planets, which they will populate with their own spirit-children. Jesus is also an example of someone who was born a man, but made it to god-status. They believe that the father, son , and holy spirit share a commonality of purpose, not of essense as in Trinitarianism--the "Godhead" to Mormons is a council of the three distinct beings, rather than One God, as in Trinitarianism. They believe in the Heavenly Mother -- that the Father has a goddess wife.


This is your understanding, explanation, and word usage to say why Mormons are not Christians? You’ve hardly mentioned Christ.

Accepting Jesus as Savior makes one a Christian. I’ve provided several definitions of Christian in post #123. I already provided the definition of Trinity. It is not the word “Trinity” that’s important, as it is a word decided upon by ancient Catholicism. it’s the acknowledgment of the three persons: God the Father, Jesus Christ, and Holy Spirit that are in the New Testament. Actually, Christian may not even have that because some Christians - some who call themselves “born agains”- that only accept Christ and not the other two.

Being a Christian is about Christ. Mormons believe and accept Jesus as Savior and that makes them Christians. Prove they do not believe Jesus is Savior and I will believe they are not a Christian.
 

Fallen Prophet

Well-Known Member
Oh there are plenty of victims. Many members are subjected to physical, sexual, financial and other abuses but are too brainwashed to recognize this until severe damage has been done.
People all over the world - despite their religion - are abused physically, sexually and financially.

If these abuses were part of being a Mormon - their church would have been buried long ago.

An individual Mormon being abusive doesn't make their entire church a church of victims.

You just hate Mormons.
 

Fallen Prophet

Well-Known Member
Of course you don’t see the bait and switch. You’re in too deep. And it’s not illegal—it’s immoral.
How am I "too deep"? Because I seem to know more about Mormons than you do and lack a chip on my shoulder?

There is nothing illegal or immoral about teaching people the basics of a faith before diving "too deep".

That's literally how all learning and teaching has happened since the beginning of learning and teaching.
 

Firelight

Inactive member
That is correct. Mormons actually believe in the existence of many dieties -- but they only worship one, the Father. They believe that the Father was once a creation which has made it to god status. They believe in theosis, humans and God are essentially the same sort of being and that their men (yes this is sexist) will some day be gods of their own planets, which they will populate with their own spirit-children. Jesus is also an example of someone who was born a man, but made it to god-status. They believe that the father, son , and holy spirit share a commonality of purpose, not of essense as in Trinitarianism--the "Godhead" to Mormons is a council of the three distinct beings, rather than One God, as in Trinitarianism. They believe in the Heavenly Mother -- that the Father has a goddess wife.


Seems you need a reminder of the definition:

Trinity, in Christian doctrine, the unity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as three persons in one Godhead.


Is this not how Mormons define their God?

Is this not how you are saying the Mormon belief is? What is their difference from this definition?

Which one of the three persons does “mainstream Christianity” worship, if it can only be one person as YOU say?
 

Firelight

Inactive member
If
Any honest person would have to admit that mormonism is not a part of Christianity...its is a new religion based on its own scriptures written by Joseph smith. It is not christianity even if it claims to believe in Jesus. Mohammad claimed to believe in Jesus too....but no one would say that Islam is a christian religion.


Mohammad didn’t believe Jesus is Savior.
Islam doesn’t believe Jesus is Savior.

Joseph Smith believed Jesus is Savior, that makes him Christian.
Mormons believe Jesus is Savior, that makes them Christians.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Seems you need a reminder of the definition:

Trinity, in Christian doctrine, the unity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as three persons in one Godhead.
That's a good start. But you really get into trinitarianism when you ask what that means, especially the word Godhead.
 

Firelight

Inactive member
That's a good start. But you really get into trinitarianism when you ask what that means, especially the word Godhead.


I have. Christians have various explanations for what that definition means.

I’ll suggest to you the same thing I suggested to ‘watchmen.’ Go ask 100 different Christians from a variety of Christian churches to explain the trinity and see how many different explanations you get.

Do an Internet search of random Christians explaining what the definition of trinity means. Are their explanations the same? Do they imply the same thing?
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
That's a good start. But you really get into trinitarianism when you ask what that means, especially the word Godhead.
You realize, of course, that nobody prior to 325 AD can be said to be a Trinitarian. As a matter of fact, you of all people should realize that to a first-century Jewish convert to Christianity, the concept of two persons being either "homoousios" or "homoiousios" would have been completely meaningless. Do you have any evidence whatsoever that any of Jesus' Apostles believed He was "of the same essence" as His Father? And why on earth are you so hung up on the idea that one must believe in the God of the 4th- and 5th-century creeds in order to be a Christian? There is absolutely nothing in the New Testament that implies as much. When you get right down to it, the only criterion that Jesus Christ Himself mentioned in explaining how people would be able to recognize His followers was that they were loving towards one another.
 
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Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
You just hate Mormons.
That pretty much sums it up. But don't assume Watchmen knows nothing about Mormonism. He used to be LDS himself. He knows LDS doctrine. He just likes to present it in such a way that non-Mormons find it distasteful. You know, a little tweaking here and there can make a world of difference in how teachings are likely to be perceived. Once upon a time (long before he developed shoulder problems), he was actually a pretty nice guy.
 

Watchmen

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
The Jesus of the Trinity is the Savior, is he not? There is only one Jesus who is Savior. Or do you believe the Jesus of the Trinity is something else? Perhaps it’s you who isn’t a Christian or don’t know what a Christian is.

See post #123 for definitions of “Christian.” Do a search on your own to see how Christians define themselves.
I’m not Mormon or Christian. But I know the Jesus that Mormons believe in is not the Jesus of the Trinity. Mormons expressway REJECT the Trinity. Were you aware of that?
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
I have. Christians have various explanations for what that definition means.

I’ll suggest to you the same thing I suggested to ‘watchmen.’ Go ask 100 different Christians from a variety of Christian churches to explain the trinity and see how many different explanations you get.

Do an Internet search of random Christians explaining what the definition of trinity means. Are their explanations the same? Do they imply the same thing?
I base my understanding on Trinitariarnism on what the church councils determined. In my experience, the average Christian has a very poor understandinng of the doctrine, exactly for the opposite reason -- they have not studied it in a scholarly fasion (I'm a nerd, but mosty people are not) and have a simplistic understanding.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
You realize, of course, that nobody prior to 325 AD can be said to be a Trinitarian.
I agree that Trinitarianism slowly became the doctrine of the church, and that 325 was a critical year, although you are oversimplifying it. For example, you had Tertullian campaigning against Modalism and in favor of a primitive version of Trinitarianism in the 2nd Century. But as a sweeping generalization, I suppose I can accept what you said.

I don't think anyone in the early church believed that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit were three separate gods untied in purpose the way Mormonism does.
 

Firelight

Inactive member
I’m not Mormon or Christian. But I know the Jesus that Mormons believe in is not the Jesus of the Trinity. Mormons expressway REJECT the Trinity. Were you aware of that?

The Jesus in the definition of the Trinity is the Son. Mormons believe Jesus is the Son, do they not?

Tell me, which explanation or explanations of the Trinity do Mormons reject? Do you know? I would guess that it is any explanation of the persons of the Godhead that differs from their own. That would be true of just about any Christian.

There are so many explanations of the Trinity that there is no wrong in rejecting the explanations you don’t believe in. I, myself, reject any explanation of the Trinity that isn’t similar to my own.
 

Firelight

Inactive member
I base my understanding on Trinitariarnism on what the church councils determined. In my experience, the average Christian has a very poor understandinng of the doctrine, exactly for the opposite reason -- they have not studied it in a scholarly fasion (I'm a nerd, but mosty people are not) and have a simplistic understanding.


Why would the original “Trinitarianism” doctrine remain the same throughout the past 1600+ years? It’s not even the same amongst all the Catholics, let alone all Christians.

Anyone who studied the development of the original doctrine, would learn of the many different beliefs and explanations by the early Christians of the father, son, and holy spirit, that were rejected by the council. Perhaps, a Christian agrees more with one of the rejected ideas.

I would say it’s more of a rejection of the original doctrine throughout the years, than it is a lack of study and scholar that has lead to variance amongst the Christians.

Each Christian Church may write their own doctrine, and each individual Christian may decide for themselves what they believe. If they disagree greatly, they can switch churches, or establish their own church. They may explain the members of the trinity however they desire, and in fact, do so. If there were varying ideas about the trinity 1600-1700+ years ago, that variance would continue, especially after bibles finally became available to far more people.

Have you ever researched how many different Christian churches there are in existence today? Probably not, since you seem to believe there is only one way for things to be.
 

Watchmen

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
The Jesus in the definition of the Trinity is the Son. Mormons believe Jesus is the Son, do they not?

Tell me, which explanation or explanations of the Trinity do Mormons reject? Do you know? I would guess that it is any explanation of the persons of the Godhead that differs from their own. That would be true of just about any Christian.

There are so many explanations of the Trinity that there is no wrong in rejecting the explanations you don’t believe in. I, myself, reject any explanation of the Trinity that isn’t similar to my own.
Here’s an official Mormon source. The second sentence literally says they don’t believe in the Trinity.
Do Latter-day Saints Believe in the Trinity? | ComeUntoChrist
 
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