Question Gods action

[Spirit of Light]

This is something i dont do as a muslim, i just dont judge Allah, for my own suffering.
Can you explain if or why you judge a God with it's wisdom, when in my understanding humans dont hold Gods wisdom?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

This is something i dont do as a muslim, i just dont judge Allah, for my own suffering.
Can you explain if or why you judge a God with it's wisdom, when in my understanding humans dont hold Gods wisdom?

Mind you -all- my questions aren't for debate just clarification, and what do you mean by judging god with its wisdom?

I notice many people judge because of something they are dealing with in themselves but to those who don't believe in god (and/or doesn't believe god exist) the pattern is more they judge the "idea" of god not being wise (being cruel and all of that) not god himself.

How to say. Many people do have crisis in faith so they judge god knowing he exist but having problems with their practice and devotion. They are in one category. The other is those who don't believe in god are not challenging god's wisdom but the "idea" of god both written and spoken by its followers and that idea of god is not that of love and wisdom.

The problem I see is that when one person says "god is cruel" the believer assumes the other is talking about their actual god when those who don't believe and say this are challenging and judging the "idea" of god written and said by his followers. Believers tend to take it personal but the idea of god one talks about is different than the god itself that people can't talk about given its non-existence (to the eyes of those who don't believe in it).

Maybe the question is geared more to people who believe in god and maybe in a crisis of faith?

Whose your audience?

 

[Quintessence]

It's not something I really do as a Druidic Pagan either.

That said, passing judgement is something all humans do on some level or another. It's a way we understand our relationship to various powers in the world, whether they are higher powers or not. It is a way we cope with the existential realities of life. The stories we tell about our judgements shape who we are as individuals and as a community.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Mind you -all- my questions aren't for debate just clarification, and what do you mean by judging god with its wisdom?

I notice many people judge because of something they are dealing with in themselves but to those who don't believe in god (and/or doesn't believe god exist) the pattern is more they judge the "idea" of god not being wise (being cruel and all of that) not god himself.

How to say. Many people do have crisis in faith so they judge god knowing he exist but having problems with their practice and devotion. They are in one category. The other is those who don't believe in god are not challenging god's wisdom but the "idea" of god both written and spoken by its followers and that idea of god is not that of love and wisdom.

The problem I see is that when one person says "god is cruel" the believer assumes the other is talking about their actual god when those who don't believe and say this are challenging and judging the "idea" of god written and said by his followers. Believers tend to take it personal but the idea of god one talks about is different than the god itself that people can't talk about given its non-existence (to the eyes of those who don't believe in it).

Maybe the question is geared more to people who believe in god and maybe in a crisis of faith?

Whose your audience?

As you say, many judge or get angry at a God if they them self suffer, or see others suffering.

My question is no attack at any person, but a question of why some, not all blame God for the bad in the world, or their own suffering is Gods fault.
Is it?

Maybe it is our one faults we suffering as human beings?
I can not speak of atheists since og they was to blame God, i dont know who they blame, since they dont believe in Gods existance.

 

[Spirit of Light]

It's not something I really do as a Druidic Pagan either.

That said, passing judgement is something all humans do on some level or another. It's a way we understand our relationship to various powers in the world, whether they are higher powers or not. It is a way we cope with the existential realities of life. The stories we tell about our judgements shape who we are as individuals and as a community.

I blame my self for my own faults

 

[Quintessence]

I blame my self for my own faults

Self-accountability is good, but so is recognizing the role of forces external to ourselves. One of the things I learned when studying social sciences as well as life sciences in college is that animals (humans included) are very much a product of the environments they live in. As such, I take a holistic view that recognizes the majority of who and what we are is because of others, not ourselves. There was a book I read back then by a Jain called "You Are Therefore I Am" that brilliantly articulated this point to me. You might really like this one, based on some of your other posts around here.

You Are Therefore I Am: A Declaration of Dependence by Satish Kumar

 

[SigurdReginson]

I don't know about you, but I would prefer people ask me "why?" If I asked them to do something they thought was questionable, or if they had questions for why I was doing what I do. I would tell them, because I know they can't read my mind. It's not fair for me to expect that they accept things when they don't understand the reasoning for my actions. "Just trust me" only goes so far.

If he is the lord of objectivity, he needs to make that objectivity known if he expects us to follow. Otherwise his reasoning is "because I said so." There are many other gods who's scriptures also demand things because they have supposed ultimate authority, and that's just not good enough.

We are subjective creatures. We only know what we know, and we have to go off of that.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Self-accountability is good, but so is recognizing the role of forces external to ourselves. One of the things I learned when studying social sciences as well as life sciences in college is that animals (humans included) are very much a product of the environments they live in. As such, I take a holistic view that recognizes the majority of who and what we are is because of others, not ourselves. There was a book I read back then by a Jain called "You Are Therefore I Am" that brilliantly articulated this point to me. You might really like this one, based on some of your other posts around here.

You Are Therefore I Am: A Declaration of Dependence by Satish Kumar

I will look in to it

 

[Spirit of Light]

I don't know about you, but I would prefer people ask me "why?" If I asked them to do something they thought was questionable, or if they had questions for why I was doing what I do. I would tell them, because I know they can't read my mind. It's not fair for me to expect that they accept things when they don't understand the reasoning for my actions. "Just trust me" only goes so far.

If he is the lord of objectivity, he needs to make that objectivity known if he expects us to follow. Otherwise his reasoning is "because I said so." There are many other gods who's scriptures also demand things because they have supposed ultimate authority, and that's just not good enough.

We are subjective creatures. We only know what we know, and we have to go off of that.

I can not say what others should do but to me God is far beyond any wisdom i hold, so if God punish me, there is a reason for it.
I might not understand it at the moment, but i try to look at my past action words and thoughts to see if i failed somewhere.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

As you say, many judge or get angry at a God if they them self suffer, or see others suffering.

My question is no attack at any person, but a question of why some, not all blame God for the bad in the world, or their own suffering is Gods fault.
Is it?

Maybe it is our one faults we suffering as human beings?
I can not speak of atheists since og they was to blame God, i dont know who they blame, since they dont believe in Gods existance.

I believe it's natural to be angry at god. Children are often angry at their parents and ideally their parents still know their child loves them and vis versa despite the healthy emotions that child expresses whether he was at fault or influenced by someone else who is at fault. To think of god as "perfect" all the time seems to me to look at only the bright side of things but never take into consideration of things like cancer, seizures, etc that disrupt the "design" of creation into chaos to which I would assume god would be the author of too. Maybe those who blame god can see pass the light and are faced with the truth that god (how I would see it) is both.

Usually, it's a crisis of faith, in my opinion. I understand that. If one is an atheist, I don't believe they'd be too concerned with what god does, why, and how.... whether god murders slaves and children (which is in the bible), and all of that. But I do find it healthy to blame.

Why would it not be right to blame god?

Does god only want believers to have good heightened emotions around him but any other emotion, he discourages?

 

[Spirit of Light]

I believe it's natural to be angry at god. Children are often angry at their parents and ideally their parents still know their child loves them and vis versa despite the healthy emotions that child expresses whether he was at fault or influenced by someone else who is at fault. To think of god as "perfect" all the time seems to me to look at only the bright side of things but never take into consideration of things like cancer, seizures, etc that disrupt the "design" of creation into chaos to which I would assume god would be the author of too. Maybe those who blame god can see pass the light and are faced with the truth that god (how I would see it) is both.

Usually, it's a crisis of faith, in my opinion. I understand that. If one is an atheist, I don't believe they'd be too concerned with what god does, why, and how.... whether god murders slaves and children (which is in the bible), and all of that. But I do find it healthy to blame.

Why would it not be right to blame god?

Does god only want believers to have good heightened emotions around him but any other emotion, he discourages?

In my understanding it would be more natural to blame Satan if one should blame others. Satan create a lot of evil and suffering, God does not

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

This is something i dont do as a muslim, i just dont judge Allah, for my own suffering.
Can you explain if or why you judge a God with it's wisdom, when in my understanding humans dont hold Gods wisdom?

If God exists, and He created me, then I was created with the capacity to assess various situations and come to some judgment about them. We literally do this all the time - not necessarily in judging our fellow man's actions, etc. but in judging what to eat, which water to drink, making a judgment on the best use of our time. We are given the capacity to judge things for ourselves based on our opinions, intuition, evidence presented, etc. And so, with respect to God, why would I not use this same faculty when it serves me so well in other parts of my life? What is so terribly "insulting" to God that I use the sense he gave me, and the capacity to judge to come to negative conclusions about Him? Is He hurt by this? Does it anger Him? Does what I think of Him matter to Him that much that He must try to prohibit my thinking negatively about Him, perhaps by working through you and your words to try to convince me that it "isn't right" to judge Him? Honestly - that all seems entirely ridiculous.

It doesn't matter if I am as "wise" as God. Doesn't matter in the least. I can still make judgments and use those to what I perceive as my benefit (for instance, not wasting my time on what may as well be a figment of other people's imaginations for all it presents itself in the reality I experience). I WILL continue to make such judgments. Do you honestly believe I care AT ALL what you have to say on the matter? Seriously? Don't kid yourself. I couldn't be further from caring, in any way, what you think about my judgment of God. Feel free to keep your opinions coming... and I'll continue to laugh heartily. Just know that that's how this will go. Maybe you need to stop and make a judgment, and realize that you are wasting your time.

 

[Spirit of Light]

If God exists, and He created me, then I was created with the capacity to assess various situations and come to some judgment about them. We literally do this all the time - not necessarily in judging our fellow man's actions, etc. but in judging what to eat, which water to drink, making a judgment on the best use of our time. We are given the capacity to judge things for ourselves based on our opinions, intuition, evidence presented, etc. And so, with respect to God, why would I not use this same faculty when it serves me so well in other parts of my life? What is so terribly "insulting" to God that I use the sense he gave me, and the capacity to judge to come to negative conclusions about Him? Is He hurt by this? Does it anger Him? Does what I think of Him matter to Him that much that He must try to prohibit my thinking negatively about Him, perhaps by working through you and your words to try to convince me that it "isn't right" to judge Him? Honestly - that all seems entirely ridiculous.

It doesn't matter if I am as "wise" as God. Doesn't matter in the least. I can still make judgments and use those to what I perceive as my benefit (for instance, not wasting my time on what may as well be a figment of other people's imaginations for all it presents itself in the reality I experience). I WILL continue to make such judgments. Do you honestly believe I care AT ALL what you have to say on the matter? Seriously? Don't kid yourself. I couldn't be further from caring, in any way, what you think about my judgment of God. Feel free to keep your opinions coming... and I'll continue to laugh heartily. Just know that that's how this will go. Maybe you need to stop and make a judgment, and realize that you are wasting your time.

No i do not think my words in this matter is important to others, not do i my self think my words is better then your, or others.

 

[Audie]

This is something i dont do as a muslim, i just dont judge Allah, for my own suffering.
Can you explain if or why you judge a God with it's wisdom, when in my understanding humans dont hold Gods wisdom?

Are you talking about Believers, or atheists?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

In my understanding it would be more natural to blame Satan if one should blame others. Satan create a lot of evil and suffering, God does not

I forgot about him. Wouldn't that be like a mother telling her child she can't be angry at her but blame it on someone else instead?

Displacing a believers feelings to use satan as a punching bag?

 

[Spirit of Light]

Are you talking about Believers, or atheists?

Belivers, cant blame atheists of this since you dont believe in a God

 

[Spirit of Light]

I forgot about him. Wouldn't that be like a mother telling her child she can't be angry at her but blame it on someone else instead?

Displacing a believers feelings to use satan as a punching bag?

I dont blame either of them, but i cant answer for others

 

[Audie]

Belivers, cant blame atheists of this since you dont believe in a God

Point of agreement. Lots of theists do though.

 

[ppp]

This is something i dont do as a muslim, i just dont judge Allah, for my own suffering.
Can you explain if or why you judge a God with it's wisdom, when in my understanding humans dont hold Gods wisdom?

When you claim that God is wise, you are making a judgement.

 

[Spirit of Light]

When you claim that God is wise, you are making a judgement.

How?
It's my understanding, no judgment