Question for the religious: How do you determine which supernatural beliefs to believe?

[ecco]

Anyway, I think the OP question has been answered.

Some choose to believe all the supernatural beliefs promoted by their 'holy book'. Some others pick and choose based on what they like.

By far, most pick and choose. Evidence for this is found in the multitude of sects and sub sects in every religion.

Disagree with doctrine? Pick and choose the parts you like and start you own sect.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

Well, I'm glad to hear that you don't believe the universe was an accident. Neither do I. I'm undecided as to what I believe about various other "supernatural beliefs," but I do feel that God could conceivably begotten a Son without having had sex with His mother. I also believe that the Son of God could conceivably have done things we would consider impossible given our limited knowledge. I actually haven't believed in flying reindeer since I was a small child, though. As to the question you posed in your OP, I my convictions are only in those things that God has confirmed to my heart are true (the most significant of these being that He exists). I simply don't worry about the ones that He hasn't.

This reminds me of something that happened to me many years ago. Mormon children are baptized at the age of eight. Before this event takes place, the child is interviewed by his bishop (the local congregational leader) to ascertain that he understands the purpose of baptism and wants to receive it. I was waiting with my son outside the bishop's office for him to be interviewed when my son (just barely eight) turned to me and said, kind of hesitantly, "Mom, I'm not sure I should be baptized." "Why is that, honey?" I asked. "Well," he said, "you know that story about Jonah living inside of a whale for three days?" "Yes," I answered."Well, I'm not sure I believe it," he confessed. I laughed and told him that was okay, and congratulated myself on having a son who had learned that he didn't need to believe everything anybody ever told him in a religious setting. (My son, now 38, eventually stopped believing most everything else he was taught as a child, even though he still does believe in God. I'm fine with that.)

Wish everyone had your attitude. Sadly, some people disown their children for not believing in magic.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

So if this is your knee-jerk reaction, what reason and logic do you really possess? You reject as you please, when Allah rejects you on the Day of Regrets, what will you say then? And whatever it may be will be of no consequence.

Lol, I'm so scared...NOT. If your "Allah" does exist, I hope he rejects me. Based on how the Qur'an describes him, he's not someone I'd ever wanna hang out with.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

I am merely curious to see if you can justify your beliefs.

He can't. Seems to be an angry proselytizer based on his previous posts...

 

[Subduction Zone]

He can't. Seems to be an angry proselytizer based on his previous posts...

And he may be a hit and run poster. We will see. I have noticed that those that rant in his fashion do not tend to stick around. They think that they have accomplished something by spewing their beliefs and then move on to another forum.

 

[Abdushakur]

So you quote your book again. Have you nothing to say to demonstrate your position other than a book written by men to control men? Can you not show evidence in the real world for what you claim?

If you do not see the direct correlations from the Qur'an to your statements, I can't help you.

Why use my own opinions when the Qur'an has refuted you before you were even a thing worth considering?

The Qur'an [and Sunnah] is here, in the real world. And it is sufficient evidence for me and Allah is sufficient as a Witness.

 

[Abdushakur]

No, I have armored myself against superstition and nonsense. And again, you quote your book. It has no impact on me because it is a book of myths and fairy tales. Look up from your reading and see the real world!

Why do you think the Islamic world was left behind for centuries? When al-Ghazali closed the gates of ijtihad, your world was condemned to ignorance and superstition. If you want to get into the modern world, you need to see your book as one of many and not close to the best.

You can call it as you like.

I made it clear that all I will primarily use is the Qur'an and hadeeth to establish my argument, whether you like it or not is irrelevant to me. What you think about it, or how you feel is likewise, irrelevant to me.

If it has no impact on you, then why are you trying this hard? Why do you continue? What is the purpose, what is the end goal? To make me question my religion? To abandon its doctrine to view the world as you see fit? What is the point? To cast doubts? To make me reconsider? To make me leave Islam? Seriously, what is it that compels you to keep responding? Have you not gotten it yet?

"Look up from your reading and see the real world"...see the "real" world. No, thank you. I was already there, I prefer to stay in my Book, the Qur'an, until I die.

I don't think the Islamic world was "left behind", you do. That was Ghazaali and those people will answer for what they do, I will not be questioned about them or Ghazaali, I will be questioned about myself, so this angle you are trying to come from is pointless.

I don't want to "get into" the "modern world", I have no desire for it, you can have all of it if you like. I will continue to see the Qur'an and Islam as superior over every other religion as per the statement of Allah [Q. 9:33].

 

[Abdushakur]

And he may be a hit and run poster. We will see. I have noticed that those that rant in his fashion do not tend to stick around. They think that they have accomplished something by spewing their beliefs and then move on to another forum.

You claim I was ranting, you are the one who started this discussion and then try to somewhow pin it on me. I wasn't talking to you with my intial post, you decided to butt in, and start going off about Islam, thinking you were going to accomplish something.

And just because you have no argument, at least none that are having any effect, doesn't mean I am a "hit and run" poster, it just means you don't know when to stop.

 

[Abdushakur]

He can't. Seems to be an angry proselytizer based on his previous posts...

You asked the question in the title of the thread and I answered it.
The content of the thread wasn't a question, it was a rant against Christianity, so I decided to answer why I believe in my religion.

I justified why, whether you or the other user believe in it or not is not my concern.

If my posts seem "angry" to you (I know you know that you are feigning), then you have really sensitive skin.

 

[Abdushakur]

That's right. I don't want to. You're not worth my time. I had hoped we could put past posts behind us, and start over again, but it doesn't look like this is going to be possible.

Okay?

If you had hoped to "put past posts behind us", then why did you begin with, "You're not worth my time," and end with, "but it doesn't look like this is going to be possible"?

I mean the look for reconciliation between these two statements doesn't make sense.

Anyway, I would have agreed if you didn't already assume I was a waste of your time and it was not possible to "start over".

Perhaps you are not good at expressing yourself via text, and I am reading what you wrote incorrectly, but this is the first impression I get from you. That you have no interest in "starting over", if anything, it was an attempt at making me look bad by stating that it doesn't seem possible to "start over" with me, making snide implications about my character, based on a forum. If this is the case, then it is impossible to "start over" in any matter with a person that lives their life like this.

 

[stvdv]

If my "guess" is wrong, why did you bother posting the story at all? You made it clear you were impressed with it. That's the whole point of the "salesman's tactic".

I guess you fell for it.

1: I just saw this, and thought that's a nice way to think
2: It was not a "salesman's tactic
3: And I did not fell for

And I think I know better than you, because you can't look in my mind/heart/intellect
And you don't even know the book I read

You just impose your "imagination on me"
And that is okay, but now I tell you that you were wrong here
That's all.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You claim I was ranting, you are the one who started this discussion and then try to somewhow pin it on me. I wasn't talking to you with my intial post, you decided to butt in, and start going off about Islam, thinking you were going to accomplish something.

And just because you have no argument, at least none that are having any effect, doesn't mean I am a "hit and run" poster, it just means you don't know when to stop.

Yes, rude and ranting and now rather oblivious. If you are always this lacking in manners and ability to reason why should anyone listen to anything that you have to say?

 

[Polymath257]

If you do not see the direct correlations from the Qur'an to your statements, I can't help you.

Why use my own opinions when the Qur'an has refuted you before you were even a thing worth considering?

The Qur'an [and Sunnah] is here, in the real world. And it is sufficient evidence for me and Allah is sufficient as a Witness.

The Koran hasn't refuted anything. It has made some claims, yes, but no real refutation. Yes, the Koran is a real book, but the contents are not truthful. Maybe using your own mind rather than basing all your judgements on a book of myths would be helpful to you?

Since I don't believe in Allah, such a being cannot be a witness.

 

[Polymath257]

You can call it as you like.

I made it clear that all I will primarily use is the Qur'an and hadeeth to establish my argument, whether you like it or not is irrelevant to me. What you think about it, or how you feel is likewise, irrelevant to me.

If it has no impact on you, then why are you trying this hard? Why do you continue? What is the purpose, what is the end goal? To make me question my religion? To abandon its doctrine to view the world as you see fit? What is the point? To cast doubts? To make me reconsider? To make me leave Islam? Seriously, what is it that compels you to keep responding? Have you not gotten it yet?

"Look up from your reading and see the real world"...see the "real" world. No, thank you. I was already there, I prefer to stay in my Book, the Qur'an, until I die.

I don't think the Islamic world was "left behind", you do. That was Ghazaali and those people will answer for what they do, I will not be questioned about them or Ghazaali, I will be questioned about myself, so this angle you are trying to come from is pointless.

I don't want to "get into" the "modern world", I have no desire for it, you can have all of it if you like. I will continue to see the Qur'an and Islam as superior over every other religion as per the statement of Allah [Q. 9:33].

OK, then why use modern technology to convey your viewpoints? Why even be on a forum posting in a thread under 'Science and Religion'? You have made up your mind and are willing to believe in nonsense if it is in your holy book. So, what is *your* goal here? To convert others? if so, then maybe you should learn some logic and science to be better informed than those around you.

Yes, I think the Islamic world was left behind. The scientific revolution never happened there, even though it was ready for it at one point. The great deal of learning we have achieved over the last 400 years has no Islamic contribution. Why? Because it has legislated that any real thought has to be consistent with a book of myths.

 

[Polymath257]

You claim I was ranting, you are the one who started this discussion and then try to somewhow pin it on me. I wasn't talking to you with my intial post, you decided to butt in, and start going off about Islam, thinking you were going to accomplish something.

And just because you have no argument, at least none that are having any effect, doesn't mean I am a "hit and run" poster, it just means you don't know when to stop.

It is an open forum for anyone to comment as they see fit. You are the one that interjected your beliefs an showed just how much people are willing to give up science and logic for faith in a supernatural. By only quoting from an outdated book, you have shown you have no real arguments, only statements of faith.

 

[Subduction Zone]

OK, then why use modern technology to convey your viewpoints? Why even be on a forum posting in a thread under 'Science and Religion'? You have made up your mind and are willing to believe in nonsense if it is in your holy book. So, what is *your* goal here? To convert others? if so, then maybe you should learn some logic and science to be better informed than those around you.

Yes, I think the Islamic world was left behind. The scientific revolution never happened there, even though it was ready for it at one point. The great deal of learning we have achieved over the last 400 years has no Islamic contribution. Why? Because it has legislated that any real thought has to be consistent with a book of myths.

A cautionary event that the U.S. would do well to heed. At one time the Arabic world led in the sciences and thought. in the same way we used to be looked to as the leader in new developments, but that is no longer the case. Our education has turned too much to religious viewpoints rather than being based upon rational thought.

EDIT: And to underscore my claim I just heard about this story:

In the Trump Administration, Science Is Unwelcome. So Is Advice.

If I was religious that article would have invoked a "Lord help us!"

 

[ecco]

1: I just saw this, and thought that's a nice way to think

You just saw this?

That's not what you originally posted. However, at this point I'm not going to waste my time to find your original post.

 

[ecco]

A cautionary event that the U.S. would do well to heed. At one time the Arabic world led in the sciences and thought. in the same way we used to be looked to as the leader in new developments, but that is no longer the case. Our education has turned too much to religious viewpoints rather than being based upon rational thought.

Yep. We keep falling further behind the rest of the world. You and I know this will be very detrimental to the USA.

However, the fundies who keep pushing their anti-science agenda don't care about the long range effects. Armageddon is just around the corner, don't ya know.

 

[stvdv]

You just saw this?
That's not what you originally posted. However, at this point I'm not going to waste my time to find your original post.

That's what I mean. You don't know me, you don't know what I think. And you just read more into it than was ever there.

What I said was "I was very happy to read this positive quote in the first pages of the book".
BUT: The above had nothing to do with my final decision about the book.
That's what I meant with "I just saw this" [for what it was]

 

[Subduction Zone]

Yep. We keep falling further behind the rest of the world. You and I know this will be very detrimental to the USA.

However, the fundies who keep pushing their anti-science agenda don't care about the long range effects. Armageddon is just around the corner, don't ya know.

And I don't know if you saw my edit, I added a news article about how Trump is the first president since 1941 not to have a science adviser. From bad to worse.