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Question about sheol and hades having fire to them.

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
So you believe Jesus is sad?
Well... I haven't seen his face lately so we are dealing with a hypothetical question here.

But, assuming that we have tears, I would have no problem with him having tears also. I remember that he cried twice in the NT - one being when his cousin was beheaded.
 

idea

Question Everything
Well... I haven't seen his face lately so we are dealing with a hypothetical question here.

But, assuming that we have tears, I would have no problem with him having tears also. I remember that he cried twice in the NT - one being when his cousin was beheaded.

Two scenarios to ponder.
a) the atonement only partially used, an ignorantly rejected gift, an incomplete salvation for only a few of of relatives and friends.

b) an infinite and all-encompassing salvation, all ignorance wiped away, all humanity equally united in love and harmony, not a single soul left behind.

Which sounds more like heaven to you?
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Two scenarios to ponder.
a) the atonement only partially used, an ignorantly rejected gift, an incomplete salvation for only a few of of relatives and friends.

b) an infinite and all-encompassing salvation, all ignorance wiped away, all humanity equally united in love and harmony, not a single soul left behind.

Which sounds more like heaven to you?
Why do you think there are only two alternatives?

Who decides if a gift is ignorantly rejected or an incomplete salvation for only a few is correct theology for relationship with God?

What if someone doesn't want it? Can you force someone to live in your house or can you force someone to love you?
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Yes it was a place of rubbish, but before that it has another association with a certain place.


This is that the New International Dictionary of the Bible. J. D. Douglas, Merrill C. Tenney, said about Gehenna.


"Gehena (geenna), a translation of the Aramaic from Hebrew. (ge-ben-hinnom valley of the son of Hinnom). In the OT it was refered to as the Valley of Ben Hinnom (NIV) or the Valley of the sons Hinnom (KJV,RSV, ASV).


A valley west and SW of Jerusalem that formed part of the border between Judah and Benjamin (Joshua 15.8, 18.16), it was still recognized as the border after the Exile (Nehemiah 11.30-31) and is modern Wadi er-Rababi.


Here Ahaz (2Kings 16.3) (2Chronicles 28.3) and Manasseh (2Kings 21.6) (2Chronicles 33.6) sacrificed their sons to Molech (Jeremiah 32.35). For this reason Josiah defiled the place (2Kings 23.10).


After referring to these idolatrous practices (Jeremiah 7.31-32), Jeremiah prophesied a great slaughter of the people there and in Jerusalem (Jeremiah 19.1-13).


After the OT period, Jewish apocalyptic writes began to call the Valley of Hinnom the entrance to Hell, later Hell itself. In Jewish usage of the first century A.D, Gehenna referred to the intermediate state of the godless dead, but there is no trace this sense in the NT. The NT distinguishes sharply between Hades, the intermediate, bodiless state, and Gehenna, the state of final punishment after the resurrection of the body.


Gehenna existed before the judgment (Matthew 25.41). The word occurs 12 times in the NT, always translated "Hell" (ASV, RSV margin "Gehenna").


11 times it is on the lips of Jesus: as the final punishment for calling one's brother a fool (Matthew 5.22); for adultery, when the severest measures have not been taken to prevent commission of this offense (Matthew 5.29-30); in a warning about whom to fear (Matthew 10.28) (Luke 12.5); and (Matthew 18.9) (Mark 9.43, 45,47).

A hypocrite is called a "son of Hell" (Matthew 23.15) who cannot escape "being condemned to Hell" (Matthew 23.33). James 3.6 speaks of the "tongue" as "a fire...set on fire by Hell."


A fire was kept burning in the Valley of Hinnom to consume the garbage deposited there by the residents of Jerusalem. Terms parallel to Gehenna include "fiery furnace" Matthew 13.42,50), "fiery lake (Revelation 19.20; 20.14-15), "lake of burning sulfur" (Revelation 20.10), "eternal fire" Jude 7); "Hell" (2Peter 2.4), where the Greek phrase "sent... to Hell" means "cast down to Tartarus," a Greek name for the place of punishment of the wicked dead.


Its use by our Savior Jesus Christ warns us of the destiny that even the love of GOD does not avert from those who finally refuse His forgiveness.

See also Hades; Hell. ER (in the same Dictionary).

The New International Dictionary of the Bible. J. D. Douglas, Merrill C. Tenney.
Please notice that tartarus is Not for people but the disobedient angels of Noah's day - Jude 1:6
Please notice what is thrown into that symbolic lake of fire according to Revelation 20:13-14
After everyone in biblical hell is ' delivered up' ( resurrected out of biblical hell ) then notice emptied-out hell is cast empty into ' second death' for vacated biblical hell.

Can anyone think of anyone righteous who went to hell ______________
On the day righteous Jesus died dead Jesus went to biblical hell - Acts of the Apostles 2:27.
Jesus went to the Bible's hell and Not to some religious-myth hell of burning in pain.
Jesus and the OT both teach un-conscious 'sleep' (Not pain) in death,
- John 11:11-14; Psalms 6:5; Psalms 13:3 ; Psalms 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5
Romans 6:23,7 tells us the total and complete asking price for one's sins.
It is Not death plus a post-mortem penalty, No double jeopardy. Nothing beyond death.
So, biblical hell is simply mankind's temporary stone-cold grave for the sleeping dead until: Resurrection Day.
( Resurrection Day meaning: Jesus' Millennium-Long Day of governing over Earth for a thousand years )
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Well... I haven't seen his face lately so we are dealing with a hypothetical question here.
But, assuming that we have tears, I would have no problem with him having tears also. I remember that he cried twice in the NT - one being when his cousin was beheaded.

...and once cried when Jesus' friend died as found at John 11:35
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Two scenarios to ponder.
a) the atonement only partially used, an ignorantly rejected gift, an incomplete salvation for only a few of of relatives and friends.
b) an infinite and all-encompassing salvation, all ignorance wiped away, all humanity equally united in love and harmony, not a single soul left behind. Which sounds more like heaven to you?

First of all, I find the Bible teaches the wicked will be 'destroyed forever' - Psalms 92:7; Psalms 104:35; Proverbs 2:21-22.
Once the wicked are gone, then humble meek people will inherit the Earth - Psalms 37:9-11; Matthew 5:5
So, the Bible speaks about both Heaven and Earth, and earthly hope for the majority of mankind.
We either ' repent ' or we will 'perish' (be destroyed) - 2 Peter 3:9
Jesus taught his followers must endure to the end at Matthew 24:13.
So, its either remain faithful til death, or found faithful alive at Jesus coming Glory Time at Matthew 25:31-33,37
 
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URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Actually, we all come back to earth:1 Thessalonians 3:13
  • Jesus never lied, and Jesus said at John 14:19 that he would Not be seen again.
  • So, it is from Jesus glorious heavenly throne where he judges in righteousness at the time of Matthew 25:31-33
  • Those who have that first or earlier resurrection of Revelation 20:6; 2:10; 5:9-10 remain with Jesus in Heaven
  • They are chosen because they are like the people of Luke 22:28-30; Daniel 7:18.
  • They govern with Jesus as kings and priests over people who gain everlasting life on paradisical Earth.
  • The humble meek people who do Not inherit Heaven but inherit Earth - Psalms 37:9-11; Matthew 5:5.
  • We are all present in the sense that Earth stands before God's heavens.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Pharisees and Saducees. Jesus rebuked them both.
..yet mankind continue to preach that they know what happens to them at death.
Will we never learn???
Yes, those hate-filled Pharisees were rebuked and Jesus pronounced many 'woes' for them Matthew 23rd chapter.
Especially when the Jews mixed with non-Jews ( Greeks for example) they began to teach a non-biblical view about after death.

Apparently most will never learn that Jesus and the OT both teach ' sleep ' in death.
If the dead were alive there would be No need for a resurrection.
Because the dead sleep ( John 11:11-14; Psalms 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5 ) and we can't wake up the dead, can't resurrect the dead, we need someone who can do that for us. Jesus can and will - Revelation 1:18
Resurrect us out of death's deep sleep with the opportunity to never have to die again.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Jesus never lied, and Jesus said at John 14:19 that he would Not be seen again.

I think we need to see context;

Certainly when he was taken up, he would not be seen again... but until when:

Reading before that on John 14:3

And then we had the messengers of God...

Acts 1:11

After all, He will come through the Eastern Gate which still stands today.
 

idea

Question Everything
What the Bible teaches and what reality teach are very different.

I see a lot of attribution error, judging, and pride in this thread. Hell = incompetent parents, unjust unloving, incomplete plan... lots of beams and motes...

 

alex2165

Member
I used to go for a while to 7th Day Adventist Church, they do not believe in Hell or in Death, but they interpreted death as "sleep," because in some places of the Bible death metaphorically called as "sleep "So according to them we actually not die as we know it, but simply go to sleep until resurrection comes.


Yes of course we can twist and bend the meaning of every single word of the Bible, every single statement, and every single passage or saying, we can also rename literal words into other words and explain each and every verse according to our own point of view, desire, tradition, or a doctrine of denominational church.


I visited and experienced at least dozen different Christian denominations and each and everyone of them has their own dogmas, doctrines, and traditions that they follow and guard religiously.


Fantasies and Christian theological mythologies are very common place in all churches I ever visited, and in one particular instance when I was in "Trinity Church" a pastor once declared that Bible is one big aphorism in its context and nothing in it should be taken literally for its Word.


I see the same trend on Christian Forums as well, and I believe that this is result of false teachings of the church, and because of such false teachings the people do not take anymore Bible literally and everything for them became in axioms and a figure of speech, and "life is good."


I quit going to the church a while ago and never missed, I study Bible on my own and I can clearly see how different the teachings of the church and the Truth of the Bible.


I understand Bible literally as it written, and I understand death as it written about it in the Holy Book, and I understand resurrection and life as the Holy Scripture describes it, and I am very happy that I stop listening to all that nonsense of the church, and my perspective on life and death became much more clear and much better understood than ever before.


The Judgment Day will come to all of us, and the goats will be separated from the sheep, and someone will inherit the Kingdom of GOD, and someone will be thrown into Hell, and by this action of Christ the truth about Life and Hell, literal and figurative of the Bible, will be revealed in full.


Matthew 25.31-46
31."But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne.


32.And all the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them from one another as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats,


33.and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left. (Zechariah 10.3)


34.Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come you, who are blessed of My Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.


35.I was hungry and you gave Me to eat, I was thirsty and you gave Me drink, I was a stranger and you invited Me in,

36.naked and you clothed Me, I was sick and you visited Me, I was in prison and you came to Me.'


37.Then the righteous will answer saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink?

38.And when did we see You a stranger and invite You in, or naked and clothe You?

39.And when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?'

40.And the King will answer and say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.'


41.Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me accursed ones into the Eternal Fire, which has been prepared for the Devil and his angels. (Matthew 13.49-50)


42.I was hungry and you gave Me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave Me nothing to drink,

43.I was a stranger and you did not invite Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison, and you did not visit Me.'


44.Then they themselves also will answer saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?'

45.Then He will answer them saying, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.'


46.And these will go away into Eternal punishment, but the righteous into Eternal Life."
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Frank, @Lain is right regarding Song of Solomon 8:6…
What’s the subject being discussed? It’s love, not the Grave.
Love is the fire.

And Luke 16 is just a parable.

And Sheol and Hades are the same.

I believe Hades was a Greek concept of the grave just as Hel is a Norse concept of the grave. Those concepts differ a great deal.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
The Judgment Day will come to all of us, and the goats will be separated from the sheep, and someone will inherit the Kingdom of GOD, and someone will be thrown into Hell, and by this action of Christ the truth about Life and Hell, literal and figurative of the Bible, will be revealed in full.
41.Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me accursed ones into the Eternal Fire, which has been prepared for the Devil and his angels. (Matthew 13.49-50)
46.And these will go away into Eternal punishment, but the righteous into Eternal Life."
...and I find 'eternal punishment' is: destruction, destruction as found at 2 Thessalonians 1:9.
The wicked to be ' destroyed forever ' - Psalms 92:7; Psalms 104:35; Psalms 37:10-11; 2 Peter 3:9

I notice the Eternal fire of Matthew 25:46 does Not mention us people, but for sinners Satan and his demonic angels.

The figurative humble 'sheep' inherit the Kingdom (Daniel 2:44) at the coming judgement day for the living.

No one is thrown into biblical hell because biblical hell is just the temporary stone-cold grave for the sleeping dead.
( 'sleep' as Jesus and the OT both teach = John 11:11-14; Psalms 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5 )
Biblical hell ends up empty, then the Bible's hell/grave is cast vacant into that symbolic 'second death' for vacated biblical hell/grave as per Revelation 20:13-14.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Sheol is a OT concept and Hades is NT, influenced by Greeks.
Yes, I can agree because once un-faithful Jews began mixing with non-Jews (Greeks) they adopted the non-biblical view of the religious-myth hades; just teaching that as being Scripture when Not Scripture.
This blossomed into 'Christendom' ( so-called Christian but mostly in name only - Matthew 7:21-23 )
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
What the Bible teaches and what reality teach are very different.
I see a lot of attribution error, judging, and pride in this thread. Hell = incompetent parents, unjust unloving, incomplete plan... lots of beams and motes...

The youtube sounds as if speaking about a ' cancel culture '________
 
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