Question about sheol and hades having fire to them.

[idea]

The youtube sounds as if speaking about a ' cancel culture '________

???

Here is another site explaining what attribution error is:

In social psychology, fundamental attribution error (FAE), also known as correspondence bias or attribution effect, is the tendency for people to under-emphasize situational and environmental explanations for an individual's observed behavior while over-emphasizing dispositional and personality-based explanations. This effect has been described as "the tendency to believe that what people do reflects who they are",[1] that is, to see a person's given action to be reflective of their personality as a whole rather than being brought on by current and recent circumstances. - link

The concept of hell is unjust because it fails to take into account environmental causes of actions. Belief or unbelief is caused by environment, not by any virtue of the agent. Our actions and beliefs are a reflection of our environment, nothing more. Blame the environment, not any person.

 

[muhammad_isa]

The concept of hell is unjust because it fails to take into account environmental causes of actions. Belief or unbelief is caused by environment, not by any virtue of the agent. Our actions and beliefs are a reflection of our environment, nothing more. Blame the environment, not any person.

No. The concept of hell is the opposite to that of paradise/heaven.
Righteousness leads to paradise, and evil leads to hell.
We are responsible for what we choose. It DOES take into account our environment.

We are quite capable of learning by our mistakes.
Nobody is wronged as in this life. The only people who end up in hell for eternity are the ones that intentionally rebel and wrong their own souls.
Not everybody that goes to hell will be there for eternity. Only those that persist in stubborness .. just like some people who go to prison get worse, rather than better.
We are quite capable of knowing the difference between right & wrong.

 

[idea]

No. The concept of hell is the opposite to that of paradise/heaven.
Righteousness leads to paradise, and evil leads to hell.
We are responsible for what we choose. It DOES take into account our environment.

We are quite capable of learning by our mistakes.
Nobody is wronged as in this life. The only people who end up in hell for eternity are the ones that intentionally rebel and wrong their own souls.
Not everybody that goes to hell will be there for eternity. Only those that persist in stubborness .. just like some people who go to prison get worse, rather than better.
We are quite capable of knowing the difference between right & wrong.

Yin/Yang, no front without a back, no up without down, no enjoyment of health without sickness.... there are some good sci-fi books which walk through utopian "heaven" scenarios which all fail to last. I do not think anyone's environment will ever be perfect, and I do not think that any spirit will ever be perfect either. Contrast is needed for a full experience. No potential to create, grow, learn, explore without incomplete knowledge and unfinished creations. Leave everything incomplete, unknown, imperfect for a fulfilling existence.

Life - something that grows, changes, progresses - impossible to live without the ability to "become better" which a perfect being could not do.

Death - stagnant, unchanging, no growth - a rock that just sits there without any experience, no hope for anything better, no looking forward to anything??

The whole concept of heaven/hell, it does not make sense to me. No one is forever down, no one forever up, any kind of eternal stagnant existence would be death, would be pointless.

 

[muhammad_isa]

YNo one is forever down, no one forever up, any kind of eternal stagnant existence would be death, would be pointless.

I don't think that anybody would consider being happy forever is pointless, particularly if they understand their souls to be eternal.

It certainly seems pointless to be in a state of torment forever more.
However, one would have to argue that with the "tormented soul".
We can only advise .. we can't force people to change.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Here is another site explaining what attribution error is:
In social psychology, fundamental attribution error (FAE), also known as correspondence bias or attribution effect, is the tendency for people to under-emphasize situational and environmental explanations for an individual's observed behavior while over-emphasizing dispositional and personality-based explanations. This effect has been described as "the tendency to believe that what people do reflects who they are",[1] that is, to see a person's given action to be reflective of their personality as a whole rather than being brought on by current and recent circumstances. - link
The concept of hell is unjust because it fails to take into account environmental causes of actions. Belief or unbelief is caused by environment, not by any virtue of the agent. Our actions and beliefs are a reflection of our environment, nothing more. Blame the environment, not any person.

Yes, the popular 'concept of hell ' (burn forever) is just a religious-myth teaching just taught as being Scripture.
Especially when un-faithful Jews began mixing with non-Jews they adopted a non-biblical view of hell/ grave.
The Bible's hell is simply mankind's temporary stone-cold grave for the unconscious sleeping dead.
This is why both Jesus and the OT teach ' sleep in death ' No post-mortem penalty, No double jeopardy in death.
- John 11:11-14; Psalms 6:5; Psalms 13:3; Psalms 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5.
Jesus said his sheep would hear his voice and this is why we find Christians in all nations of Earth.
Scripture urges to put on the new personality and cultivate the fruit of God's spirit - Galatians 5:22-23

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I don't think that anybody would consider being happy forever is pointless, particularly if they understand their souls to be eternal.
It certainly seems pointless to be in a state of torment forever more.However, one would have to argue that with the "tormented soul". We can only advise .. we can't force people to change.

Yes, and Jesus didn't force any to change but Jesus did advise.
A ' tormented soul/person ' is different from a ' tortured soul/person '.
Religious-myth teaching is about being on fire forever, that would be torture and Not torment.
In the Bible a tormentor was simply the jailer and Not a torturer - Matthew 18:34,30.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

No. The concept of hell is the opposite to that of paradise/heaven. Righteousness leads to paradise, and evil leads to hell.
We are responsible for what we choose. It DOES take into account our environment.
We are quite capable of learning by our mistakes.
Nobody is wronged as in this life. The only people who end up in hell for eternity are the ones that intentionally rebel and wrong their own souls.
Not everybody that goes to hell will be there for eternity. Only those that persist in stubborness .. just like some people who go to prison get worse, rather than better.
We are quite capable of knowing the difference between right & wrong.

Right, righteous Jesus was only in biblical hell a short time after Jesus died - Acts of the Apostles 2:27.
Sin sends dead people to the grave - aka the Bible's temporary stone-cold grave for the sleeping dead.
So, while dead Jesus was in biblical hell Jesus was in a sleep-like state as he taught at John 11:11-14.
Jesus was well educated in the OT which also teaches 'sleep' in death- Psalms 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5
Because we can't resurrect oneself or another we need someone who can resurrect us. Jesus can and will.
On Resurrection Day ( meaning Jesus' Millennium-Long Day of governing over Earth for a thousand years )
Both the righteous and unrighteous will be resurrected according to Acts of the Apostles 24:15.
Then, the righteous can choose to remain righteous, and the unrighteous can choose to become righteous.
(As far as the wicked are concerned they will be ' destroyed forever ' - Psalms 92:7; Psalms 104:35; Proverbs 2:21-22)

 

[muhammad_isa]

Yes, and Jesus didn't force any to change but Jesus did advise.
A ' tormented soul/person ' is different from a ' tortured soul/person '.
Religious-myth teaching is about being on fire forever, that would be torture and Not torment..

It is the same thing.
G-d wrongs nobody.
It is mankind that wrong their own souls.

Ignoring what Jesus taught in the Bible about heaven and hell, because you can't understand how "a loving God" would allow somebody to suffer, does not enlighten.

The consequences of evil-doing is very real. It is not that a "God in the sky" tortures souls, it is a result of wronging our own souls.
G-d is not a person. We all have spirits from Him. He is infinite. There is no limit to the amount of souls/spirits that can exist.

A spirit/soul is immortal. It is a"piece" of G-d, if you will.
The "burning in fire" denotes the seriousness of hell. It is not a literal fire.
However, it might as well be. Mental anguish is extremely painful.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Life - something that grows, changes, progresses - impossible to live without the ability to "become better" which a perfect being could not do.
Death - stagnant, unchanging, no growth - a rock that just sits there without any experience, no hope for anything better, no looking forward to anything??
The whole concept of heaven/hell, it does not make sense to me. No one is forever down, no one forever up, any kind of eternal stagnant existence would be death, would be pointless.

Yes, 'life' ability to become better...
Yes, 'death' stagnant in a sleep-like state according to John 11:11-14; Psalms 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5
The concept of Heaven (God's home and home for the angels ) makes sense for the invisible realm of existence.
The concept of hell ( biblical hell ) is the Bible's hell is the temporary stone-cold grave for the sleeping dead.
The concept of Earth was to be Adam's forever home right here in Earth.
Jesus taught that humble meek people will inherit the Earth in reference to Psalms 37:9-11.
So, it is Not forever down ( grave ) nor forever up ( heaven for all ) but Earth for the majority of people.
The coming resurrection will do away with ' enemy death ' according to 1 Corinthians 15:26; Isaiah 25:8

 

[idea]

I don't think that anybody would consider being happy forever is pointless, particularly if they understand their souls to be eternal.

It certainly seems pointless to be in a state of torment forever more.
However, one would have to argue that with the "tormented soul".
We can only advise .. we can't force people to change.

Anything stagnant without change is pointless - without meaning, without purpose... unchanging = eternally bored, numb, sleeping.... not happy.

Without something incomplete, there is no progression, no growth, no life.

Perfect/complete/unchanging/all-knowing does not sound happy to me...

 

[idea]

Yes, 'life' ability to become better...
Yes, 'death' stagnant in a sleep-like state according to John 11:11-14; Psalms 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5
The concept of Heaven (God's home and home for the angels ) makes sense for the invisible realm of existence.
The concept of hell ( biblical hell ) is the Bible's hell is the temporary stone-cold grave for the sleeping dead.
The concept of Earth was to be Adam's forever home right here in Earth.
Jesus taught that humble meek people will inherit the Earth in reference to Psalms 37:9-11.
So, it is Not forever down ( grave ) nor forever up ( heaven for all ) but Earth for the majority of people.
The coming resurrection will do away with ' enemy death ' according to 1 Corinthians 15:26; Isaiah 25:8

Why would being invisible change anything?

Sorry, just not really understanding "perfect". Become perfect, and then what?

Reaching perfection sounds like another kind of death, an end to progress and purpose.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Why would being invisible change anything?
Sorry, just not really understanding "perfect". Become perfect, and then what?
Reaching perfection sounds like another kind of death, an end to progress and purpose.

How about being ' perfect in purpose ' _______
For example: a wedding ring might Not be 100% perfect but a wedding ring is perfect for a marriage ceremony.
Angels are created with angelic perfection, which serves their purpose for heavenly life.
Adam and Eve were created with human perfection, to serve earthly life free from sickness and death.
Adam's disobedience caused Adam to loose his healthy human perfection.
Since Adam only had children after he broke God's Law, then fallen Adam could only pass on to us imperfection.
Only pass on to us Adam's then acquired sickness and death.
Because we are innocent of what fallen-father Adam did is why God sent Jesus to Earth for us to undo the damage Satan and Adam brought upon humanity.
First, the passing of time was needed for us humans to be born and think who we would like as Sovereign over us.
Then, we need for Jesus' Glory Time to come as described at Matthew 25:31-33,37.
After that there will be ' healing ' for earth's nations as promised at Revelation 22:2; 1 Corinthians 15:24-26.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Anything stagnant without change is pointless - without meaning, without purpose... unchanging = eternally bored, numb, sleeping.... not happy.
Without something incomplete, there is no progression, no growth, no life.
Perfect/complete/unchanging/all-knowing does not sound happy to me...

To me it all depends on what is perfect.
For example: Apples are perfect to use for making an apple pie.
If not completely happy with one recipe, then simply change by trying another apple-pie recipe.
Try until you find the 'perfect' apple-pie recipe for you. One that suits you.

Adam was created with 'perfect human health' void of any sickness or death.
Not meaning Adam was bored or unhappy with excellent health.
When disobedient Adam lost his healthy-human perfection Adam became incomplete in having healthy human life.
To me, enemy ' death' is what is stagnant because without the resurrection hope then life is without real meaning and purpose.
Death is: numb, sleeping, without any progression or growth in death, no happiness in death.
( I say 'sleep' in death because Jesus and the OT teach 'sleep' in death - John 11:11-14; Psalms 115:17; Isaiah 38:18)
Progression, growth and happiness are tied up in a great-big bow for us with the Resurrection HOPE.
The hope of coming back to live life again.
(Resurrection Day meaning: Jesus' coming Millennium-Long Day of governing over Earth for a thousand years)
Not a life with sickness and death in view, but healthy everlasting life, eternal life, forever and ever.
Some people resurrected to Heaven, but the majority of mankind resurrected to live forever on Earth.
A beautiful paradisical Earth as was originally offered to Adam before his downfall.
1 Corinthians 15:26 is why we are all invited to pray the invitation of Rev. 22:20 for Jesus to come !

 

[URAVIP2ME]

A spirit/soul is immortal. It is a"piece" of G-d, if you will.The "burning in fire" denotes the seriousness of hell. It is not a literal fire. However, it might as well be. Mental anguish is extremely painful.

In the Bible I find Adam was Not immortal.
At Genesis 2:7 Adam was formed or fashioned out of the dust of the ground.
At death Adam 'returned' back to the dust of the ground - Genesis 3:19
A person can Not 'return' to a place he never was before.
Adam went from non-life, to life, and returned back to where he started 'non-life' ( non-existence )
So, No mental anguish, No post-mortem penalty, No double jeopardy for Adam or anyone else.

Agree, in biblical hell there is No literal fire.
No fire at all because the Bible's hell is just mankind's temporary stone-cold grave for the 'sleeping' dead.
Being 'dead as a door knob ' meaning No feeling in death just an unconscious sleep-like state.
'Sleep in death' as both Jesus and the OT teach - Psalms 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5; John 11:11-14.

 

[muhammad_isa]

In the Bible I find Adam was Not immortal.
At Genesis 2:7 Adam was formed or fashioned out of the dust of the ground.
At death Adam 'returned' back to the dust of the ground - Genesis 3:19
A person can Not 'return' to a place he never was before.
Adam went from non-life, to life, and returned back to where he started 'non-life' ( non-existence )
So, No mental anguish, No post-mortem penalty, No double jeopardy for Adam or anyone else..

No, sorry. That is not what Jesus taught in the Gospels.
Above, you just show us that Adam was formed from dust on the ground
[and G-d "blew" the spirit into him],
and he returned to the dust [where did the spirit go?]

Being 'dead as a door knob ' meaning No feeling in death just an unconscious sleep-like state.

That is a feature of disbelief.
All souls/spirits will be raised on the day of judgement.
What happens between death and the day of judgement, G-d only knows.
..as does what happens after.

 

[2ndpillar]

In the Bible I find Adam was Not immortal.
At Genesis 2:7 Adam was formed or fashioned out of the dust of the ground.
At death Adam 'returned' back to the dust of the ground - Genesis 3:19
A person can Not 'return' to a place he never was before.
Adam went from non-life, to life, and returned back to where he started 'non-life' ( non-existence )
So, No mental anguish, No post-mortem penalty, No double jeopardy for Adam or anyone else.

Agree, in biblical hell there is No literal fire.
No fire at all because the Bible's hell is just mankind's temporary stone-cold grave for the 'sleeping' dead.
Being 'dead as a door knob ' meaning No feeling in death just an unconscious sleep-like state.
'Sleep in death' as both Jesus and the OT teach - Psalms 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5; John 11:11-14.

You have different types of fire. You have the trash dump outside of Jerusalem, whereas dead bodies are burnt (Gehenna). You have lake of fire, whence the dead are raised from the grave and judged, and you have the furnace of fire, which is a description of the "great tribulation" whereas there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth (Matthew 13), which occurs prior to the millennium. One sleeps in the grave, but at the end, those in the grave will be raised and judged according to their deeds (Revelation 20:12). As for the "great tribulation", people will seek death, and it will allude them (Revelation 9:6).

 

[2ndpillar]

To me it all depends on what is perfect.
For example: Apples are perfect to use for making an apple pie.
If not completely happy with one recipe, then simply change by trying another apple-pie recipe.
Try until you find the 'perfect' apple-pie recipe for you. One that suits you.

Adam was created with 'perfect human health' void of any sickness or death.
Not meaning Adam was bored or unhappy with excellent health.
When disobedient Adam lost his healthy-human perfection Adam became incomplete in having healthy human life.
To me, enemy ' death' is what is stagnant because without the resurrection hope then life is without real meaning and purpose.
Death is: numb, sleeping, without any progression or growth in death, no happiness in death.
( I say 'sleep' in death because Jesus and the OT teach 'sleep' in death - John 11:11-14; Psalms 115:17; Isaiah 38:18)
Progression, growth and happiness are tied up in a great-big bow for us with the Resurrection HOPE.
The hope of coming back to live life again.
(Resurrection Day meaning: Jesus' coming Millennium-Long Day of governing over Earth for a thousand years)
Not a life with sickness and death in view, but healthy everlasting life, eternal life, forever and ever.
Some people resurrected to Heaven, but the majority of mankind resurrected to live forever on Earth.
A beautiful paradisical Earth as was originally offered to Adam before his downfall.
1 Corinthians 15:26 is why we are all invited to pray the invitation of Rev. 22:20 for Jesus to come !

"He that testifies of these things", the angel of the Lord, is the same angel who will come for the tares at the end of the age. (Revelation 22:20 & Matthew 13:39-42). The "tares", the lawless (Matthew 13:41), will be thrown into the furnace of fire, which is the "great tribulation". If they survive the great tribulation, they will worship/bow to the king (Zechariah 14:16), and be ruled by a iron rod (Revelation 19:15). The tares saying "Jesus come", don't realize what is coming. The prayer Yeshua taught was "thy kingdom come", "thy will be done", which would be the kingdom will come per the will of God, on his timetable. Prior to the coming of the son of man (Matthew 24:29), is the "great tribulation". There will be no "rapture". "First" the "tares" will be gathered and burned, and then the wheat will be gathered into the barn (Matthew 13:30), to be led by David on the land given to Jacob (Ezekiel 37). The "tares", led by the false prophets (Matthew 7:13), apparently will not know what hit them (Matthew 24:43).

 

[Muffled]

Sheol is a OT concept and Hades is NT, influenced by Greeks.

I believe it was not a matter of influence but rather a matter of what language it is written in. In English Hell does not mean grave since grave is the word we use but translators have translated grave as Hell in many instances.

 

[Muffled]

Even the word 'cemetery' means : sleeping place.

I believe people are not sleeping at this time because they are being reincarnated at a fast pace or they are going to Heaven.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

No, sorry. That is not what Jesus taught in the Gospels.
Above, you just show us that Adam was formed from dust on the ground
[and G-d "blew" the spirit into him],
and he returned to the dust [where did the spirit go?]
That is a feature of disbelief. All souls/spirits will be raised on the day of judgement.
What happens between death and the day of judgement, G-d only knows...as does what happens after.

An inquiring mind wants to know.
I find Jesus believed about Adam - Matthew 19:5; Mark 10:7-8.
I read at Genesis 2:7 that God ' blew the 'breath' of life ' into life-less Adam.
As to where Adam's spirit went: IT went back to the dust with the rest of Adam
Since we are innocent of what Adam did our ' spirit ' of life goes back to God as per Ecclesiastes 12:7 B.
As Adam's spirit was a neuter "it", so is our spirit a neuter "it" according to Ecclesiastes 12:7 B.
So, our impersonal "it" goes back to God in the sense that a foreclosed house is returned to the owner.
In other words, any future life prospect now lies in God's safe hands.

No, those who are classed as wicked (see Matthew 12:32) will Not be raised on the Day of Judgement.
'Day' as in meaning Jesus' Millennium-Long day of governing over Earth for a thousand years.

Jesus and the OT writers believed they knew what happens between death and the Day of Judgement.
Jesus and the OT both teach ' sleep ' in death.
Please see: John 11:11-14; Psalms 6:5; Psalms 13:3; Psalms 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5

In our day or time frame we are nearing a time of separation for the living, a judgement for living people.
Please see Matthew 25:31-33,37.
The figurative humble ' sheep ' alive on Earth at Jesus coming Glory Time can remain alive on Earth and be here to see calendar Day One of Jesus' 1,000 year reign over Earth.
The figurative haughty ' goats ' are thus classed as wicked who are: ' destroyed forever '.
This is why at 2 Peter 3:9 we are to ' repent ' if we don't want to ' perish ' ( be destroyed )
- Psalms 92:7; Psalms 104:35; Proverbs 2:21-22.
Even sinner Satan will end up being destroyed by Jesus according to Hebrews 2:14 B.