Quebec bans religious instruction in government-sponsored daycare

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Quebec is a bit unique in North America in that they provide government subsidized daycare to all residents. The provincial government provides funding and oversight to a range of public and private daycare providers, and then charges parents $7 a day per child (yes, that figure is correct) for daycare.

Yesterday, the Quebec government announced a change in policy for these subsidized daycare providers:

Que. moves to ban religious instruction in daycares

QUEBEC — The Quebec government made a sudden about-turn on Wednesday when it announced it will ban religious instruction in provincially funded daycare centres.

Family Minister Tony Tomassi's decision came just a day after he said he saw no problem in allowing Jewish or Islamic groups to teach their religious beliefs.
His position on Tuesday was that the religious education offered young children was merely an extension of values learned at home.

But Tomassi backtracked on Wednesday, saying there might be problems in about 20 daycare centres and that "we haven't finished our investigation."

"From now on, religious instruction will no longer be accepted in the daycare network subsidized by the Family Department," he said in Quebec City.

Tomassi refused to commit to withdrawing the permits of centres that do not comply.

linkie

Thoughts?

 

[enchanted_one1975]

Sounds good to me. I wouldn't want my children influenced at a young age by religions that I believe to be false. If they are to learn about any religion it should be the one that I believe to be true.

 

[Willamena]

Quebec is a bit unique in North America in that they provide government subsidized daycare to all residents. The provincial government provides funding and oversight to a range of public and private daycare providers, and then charges parents $7 a day per child (yes, that figure is correct) for daycare.

That's very French of them. (Good on them.)

Thoughts?

Sounds like he got a lot of letters for his prior comments and position. Regardless that it's not illegal, it's unpopularity influenced the outcome.

I think it's unfortunate.

 

[dust1n]

Quebec is a bit unique in North America in that they provide government subsidized daycare to all residents. The provincial government provides funding and oversight to a range of public and private daycare providers, and then charges parents $7 a day per child (yes, that figure is correct) for daycare.

Yesterday, the Quebec government announced a change in policy for these subsidized daycare providers:



linkie

Thoughts?

Sounds like some centers were doing something they weren't supposed to do.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Sounds good to me. I wouldn't want my children influenced at a young age by religions that I believe to be false. If they are to learn about any religion it should be the one that I believe to be true.

That might be a problem in small towns where there's only one daycare and it's run by a church, but does it factor into your opinion that in a large city where there's plenty of choice, most likely the people who would be sending their kids to Muslim, Jewish or Christian daycares would be people who wanted them to be exposed to those religions?



To weigh in on this issue myself, I don't think it does. I see this program as an extension of the secular, public school system, only with the school facilities and staff provided by contractors. The fact that not all of the program occurs in buildings that are owned by the state is a matter of financial efficiency; it's not intended as an opportunity for religious groups to adjust the program based on their beliefs.

 

[MSizer]

It makes me smile a little bit.

 

[YmirGF]

It makes me smile a little bit.

No doubt their next stop will be to curb daycare's that offer English only instruction.

 

[Storm]

Quebec is a bit unique in North America in that they provide government subsidized daycare to all residents. The provincial government provides funding and oversight to a range of public and private daycare providers, and then charges parents $7 a day per child (yes, that figure is correct) for daycare.

Yesterday, the Quebec government announced a change in policy for these subsidized daycare providers:



linkie

Thoughts?

Well, looks like I'm the lone voice of dissent.

I find it sad that they're cutting back on education.

Now, before anyone bites my head off:
1) I'm assuming that the instruction provided is exactly that: instruction as opposed to indoctrination.
2) The article specified that they had no problem with minority religions being represented, which takes care of the secularity concern.

 

[MSizer]

I disagree. What's to stop me from opening a daycare, asking for gov't money, and demanding equal respect for teaching kids that my god preaches that the best way to get what you want in life is to kill other people and take it?

 

[Storm]

I disagree. What's to stop me from opening a daycare, asking for gov't money, and demanding equal respect for teaching kids that my god preaches that the best way to get what you want in life is to kill other people and take it?

That would be indoctrination, not education.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Sounds like they're being responsible investigating potential problems.

 

[Storm]

Sounds like they're being responsible investigating potential problems.

Oh, agreed. I just find it depressing that their solution to said problems is eliminating the field from the curriculum. Ignorance never helps.

 

[MSizer]

the women in quebec are sooo hot. mmmmm. oh, uh, daycare, yes, subsidized good, religious bad. (psst, gentlemen, if your wife says she'd like to visit montreal, do yourself, err, I mean her a favour and go, the scenery is fantastic wink wink)

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

2) The article specified that they had no problem with minority religions being represented, which takes care of the secularity concern.

In a big city, perhaps. In a small town, it'd be entirely possible for there to be only one or two daycare providers, and there'd be a high likelihood that the provider would be some sort of church.

I think how a person feels about the conflict depends greatly on how they view this funding arrangement.

- is it a case where the government has endeavoured to provide a service to residents, and has contracted with private groups to deliver it?
- is it a case where private groups have endeavoured to provide a service, and the government has decided to support it?

In the first case, I think it should be purely secular. As an analogy, here in Ontario, many driver and vehicle licencing offices are run by private businesses under contract to the provincial government; if a Christian business were to use this opportunity to proselytize to people standing in line waiting to renew their driver's licences, then this would be an abuse of their position.

In the second case, I think there's more room for religious expression on the part of the daycare providers, though the government would have an interest in ensuring that their support provided value to the community and was carried out equitably.

That's the question in my mind. If child care is a government service that is being delivered through private groups, then it should be secular, just as the government is supposed to be secular. And I think that's what's happening here. This child care program was created by the Quebec government as a commitment to the people of the province that every child would have the opportunity for daycare, just as every school-aged child has the opportunity for education. Because of this, I think it's right to keep religion out of it.

If a church wants to incorporate religious instruction into a daycare program, then fine... as long as it's outside the government-funded system.

 

[Magic Man]

Man, every day I find myself more and more tempted to move to Canada. Hell, I'm already half-Canadian: I love hockey.

I don't think religious education is appropriate for programs like this. I'd be all for religion class in schools, as long as its purpose was to teach about all religions, but not in a daycare program.

Oh, agreed. I just find it depressing that their solution to said problems is eliminating the field from the curriculum. Ignorance never helps.

Why do you think daycare is the appropriate place for teachings of this kind?

 

[dust1n]

Well, looks like I'm the lone voice of dissent.

I find it sad that they're cutting back on education.

Now, before anyone bites my head off:
1) I'm assuming that the instruction provided is exactly that: instruction as opposed to indoctrination.
2) The article specified that they had no problem with minority religions being represented, which takes care of the secularity concern.

Well that is what seems to be the case. Everyone was fine with it until 20 reports which are being investigated came in. More than likely some religious kooks tried the indoctrination technique instead; and now all their brethren are paying for it. For some, if you give them an inch, they think you gave them a mile.

 

[Storm]

In a big city, perhaps. In a small town, it'd be entirely possible for there to be only one or two daycare providers, and there'd be a high likelihood that the provider would be some sort of church.

I think how a person feels about the conflict depends greatly on how they view this funding arrangement.

- is it a case where the government has endeavoured to provide a service to residents, and has contracted with private groups to deliver it?
- is it a case where private groups have endeavoured to provide a service, and the government has decided to support it?

In the first case, I think it should be purely secular. As an analogy, here in Ontario, many driver and vehicle licencing offices are run by private businesses under contract to the provincial government; if a Christian business were to use this opportunity to proselytize to people standing in line waiting to renew their driver's licences, then this would be an abuse of their position.

In the second case, I think there's more room for religious expression on the part of the daycare providers, though the government would have an interest in ensuring that their support provided value to the community and was carried out equitably.

That's the question in my mind. If child care is a government service that is being delivered through private groups, then it should be secular, just as the government is supposed to be secular. And I think that's what's happening here. This child care program was created by the Quebec government as a commitment to the people of the province that every child would have the opportunity for daycare, just as every school-aged child has the opportunity for education. Because of this, I think it's right to keep religion out of it.

If a church wants to incorporate religious instruction into a daycare program, then fine... as long as it's outside the government-funded system.

How do you understand "religious instruction?" Because I'm not talking about "jesus loves you." I'm talking about "some people believe in Jesus, some people believe in Allah." I see no problem with the government funding instruction.

 

[Storm]

Why do you think daycare is the appropriate place for teachings of this kind?

Again, I wonder if we're using the same definitions.

But to answer the question, it's never too early to teach kids about the world they're going to have to live in.

 

[Storm]

Well that is what seems to be the case. Everyone was fine with it until 20 reports which are being investigated came in. More than likely some religious kooks tried the indoctrination technique instead; and now all their brethren are paying for it. For some, if you give them an inch, they think you gave them a mile.

And that should be stopped. However, I think they're throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

How do you understand "religious instruction?" Because I'm not talking about "jesus loves you." I'm talking about "some people believe in Jesus, some people believe in Allah." I see no problem with the government funding instruction.

I see it as instruction, or perhaps indoctrination, in a particular religion. Maybe it'd be getting the kids to agree to the Ten Commandments, or doing readings from a "children's Bible stories" book at storytime. Maybe it'd be a Muslim daycare teaching the kids how do do a salaat, or a Sikh daycare getting the kids to help out with Langar.

IOW, I see it as mainly training them for membership in a particular religion.

I don't have a problem with a secular institution teaching facts about different beliefs as part of some sort of comparative religion program, however, I question how appropriate this would be for preschoolers, except for very, very basic stuff (e.g. explaining why some of their classmates get a different meal when pork is served for lunch).