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QAnon believers grapple with doubt, spin new theories as Trump era ends

ecco

Veteran Member
There's no genuine desire to look beyond the surface, so it's easy to conclude that these people are all a bunch of defective human beings. Because there's no possibility that any of these ideas could have come from true Americans.

Where in the world did you ever get the information that led you to that conclusion? Who concludes that these people were all born a bunch of defective humans. These people were taught to hate. These people were taught to discredit science and evidence. These people were taught to accept nonsense. They were taught by their elders, their peers, their religious leaders. When they got older their "education" was furthered by talking heads who were brought up the same way and share the same biases.


What religion do they all follow? American patriotism, the closest thing to an official state religion we have in the U.S.

More nonsense. Patriotism is not a religion. Religion does not lead to patriotism unless one is living in a theocracy. We have no state religion, but it's not a state religion that is causing today's problems. It is, in large part, religious fundamentalists (see above).
 

ecco

Veteran Member
I used to have a problem with expecting miracles... I was actively looking for them after prayer, but anymore, I don’t search for miracles. I don't pray for advantages, I just pray to God now and expect nothing.
How does your comment address the points I made?
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Where in the world did you ever get the information that led you to that conclusion? Who concludes that these people were all born a bunch of defective humans. These people were taught to hate. These people were taught to discredit science and evidence. These people were taught to accept nonsense. They were taught by their elders, their peers, their religious leaders. When they got older their "education" was furthered by talking heads who were brought up the same way and share the same biases.

I get my information through study, observation, and experience. Where do you get your information from?

More nonsense. Patriotism is not a religion. Religion does not lead to patriotism unless one is living in a theocracy. We have no state religion, but it's not a state religion that is causing today's problems. It is, in large part, religious fundamentalists (see above).

Sounds like you're in denial, which is a large part of the problem we're facing. What I've observed these past years, especially when it comes to how people react to Trump and much of the dissension going on, is that they'll try to find any threadbare excuse to explain what's happening, while consciously avoiding treading on any "sacred cows" which are part of Americana.

And this is just as true for the Democrats as well. Remember this?

nancy-pelosi-trump-impeachment-.jpg


Same religion as the right-wingers and the Q-Anon believers.

Note the use of the US flag pin by both of these individuals.

image4094368x.jpg


s-l640.jpg


And you say it's not a religion? On what do you base this conclusion? I've already posted my evidence. Let's see yours.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
I get my information through study, observation, and experience. Where do you get your information from?

That is about as vague as it gets. What did you study? Where did you do your observing? What experiences are you referring to?

There are people who are convinced aliens are real. They studied books on ufos. They observed lights in the sky. They experienced being taken aboard an alien ship and being probed.

None of that makes their claims real, valid, or meaningful.

Sounds like you're in denial, which is a large part of the problem we're facing. What I've observed these past years, especially when it comes to how people react to Trump and much of the dissension going on, is that they'll try to find any threadbare excuse to explain what's happening, while consciously avoiding treading on any "sacred cows" which are part of Americana.

I don't need threadbare excuses to know that Trump is a narcissistic pathological liar. That is evident from his own words and his own actions.

What "sacred cows" of American are you suggesting that I avoid stepping on?

And you say it's not a religion? On what do you base this conclusion? I've already posted my evidence.

I say patriotism is not a religion because it has no god. If you disagree, please show the god that patriots worship.

I also say the devoted adoration of Trump could well become a religion down the road - especially if someone kills him and makes him a martyr.
 

fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member
I say patriotism is not a religion because it has no god. If you disagree, please show the god that patriots worship.
That is a very narrow definition of religion. That is fine, you have the right to define your terms. But at the same time you must recognize that others may understand that term differently.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
That is about as vague as it gets. What did you study? Where did you do your observing? What experiences are you referring to?

Looking at the earlier post you were questioning, I see that you may have been reacting to my underlying snarkiness. What I was describing was the generally superficial way most people in America approach politics and characterize the opposition (whoever that may be). I've observed this as a general cultural trend which isn't exclusive to one side.

If you want an example of what I'm talking about, I can cite it from your very post above, where you wrote:

These people were taught to hate. These people were taught to discredit science and evidence. These people were taught to accept nonsense. They were taught by their elders, their peers, their religious leaders. When they got older their "education" was furthered by talking heads who were brought up the same way and share the same biases.

Sounds like quite a scathing criticism - almost to the point of calling them "defective human beings" (or, as Hillary put it, "deplorables"). You say "these people were taught to hate." Taught by whom? What, exactly, were they taught, and how do you know what they were taught? Were you there? Did you grow up in America and witness any of this during your lifetime?

I'm not necessarily saying that you're incorrect. I think there is a good deal of truth in what you say, but like many others in these discussions, you're only scratching the surface and not looking deeper to the root of the problem. This is why the problem doesn't really get solved.

There are people who are convinced aliens are real. They studied books on ufos. They observed lights in the sky. They experienced being taken aboard an alien ship and being probed.

None of that makes their claims real, valid, or meaningful.

Alien stories aren't really that meaningful to me anyway. People believe what they want to believe. I would say that's more an effect of fiction writers and film producers putting forth a plethora of space and alien stories.

I don't need threadbare excuses to know that Trump is a narcissistic pathological liar. That is evident from his own words and his own actions.

That's not the point. That narcissistic pathological liar was elected president in 2016, and many people still don't seem to have a clue as to why or how he was elected. They seem to struggle to make sense of what's happening in politics today. They'll blame the Russians. They'll blame Jefferson Davis. They'll blame Hitler. They'll look for any possible reason to explain what's happening - except they'll ignore what's happening in America.

What "sacred cows" of American are you suggesting that I avoid stepping on?

You personally? I don't know. But in the last post, you appeared to be deflecting, so it seemed as if you were trying to avoid the topic.

I say patriotism is not a religion because it has no god. If you disagree, please show the god that patriots worship.

Some might define god as a "higher power," and if anyone worships power or the symbols of power, even if it's secular and human power, then I think it would fit the criteria for a religion. If you want to split hairs over it, then feel free, although that would take us off topic. For the sake of argument, we can call it a "very strong belief" instead of "religion," but either way, my basic point still stands.

I also say the devoted adoration of Trump could well become a religion down the road - especially if someone kills him and makes him a martyr.

Maybe, although I think Trumpism has been more of a fad, kind of like bell bottoms.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
I wanted to unite believers for a change, but I knew if atheists were included, the subject would take a turn toward finger-pointing... Which happened, when atheists began singling out Christians.
Yeah. Exaclty. A group that tends to distrust and spread all sorts of lies about atheists, a group often and widely believes you must have god and religion to be moral, and you're going to toss this group the question of "do people believe in Qanon due to a lack of belief in god?" A question that is such rubbish as Qanon has more people who believe in a literal devil than any atheist group by default. This is because atheists do not believe in a god or devil. And it was posted where the "yes"es would likely outweigh the "no"s, without the ability for atheists to defend themselves.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
This thread is actually about "faith" and "believing"... That's what conspiracy theories are -- faith/belief without evidence.
Which is why blaming atheists for conspiracies theories - especially those with religious themes (i.e. democrats are literal devil worshipers) - makes no sense.
 

Cooky

Veteran Member
Yeah, it's called dishonesty. You're looking to confirm a bias rather than for objective, accurate details.

Notice there are no believers here anymore..? They're like rabbits, and you're like a Ogre. Rabbits are very timid creatures, and now they all ran away.

...If you want them to stay, you have to feed them carrots.
 

Cooky

Veteran Member
Yeah. Exaclty. A group that tends to distrust and spread all sorts of lies about atheists, a group often and widely believes you must have god and religion to be moral, and you're going to toss this group the question of "do people believe in Qanon due to a lack of belief in god?" A question that is such rubbish as Qanon has more people who believe in a literal devil than any atheist group by default. This is because atheists do not believe in a god or devil. And it was posted where the "yes"es would likely outweigh the "no"s, without the ability for atheists to defend themselves.

The question was a carrot offering. I was trying to strike-up their interest in something outside the constant theological discussions. It's mind expansion.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
Notice there are no believers here anymore..? They're like rabbits, and you're like a Ogre. Rabbits are very timid creatures, and now they all ran away.

...If you want them to stay, you have to feed them carrots.
I'm a benevolent and kind hearted ogre who offers generous gifts of wisdom and knowledge. My posts are tasty carrots that nourish the rabbits, alleviating their nutritional deficiencies. :)
 

Cooky

Veteran Member
I'm a benevolent and kind hearted ogre who offers generous gifts of wisdom and knowledge. My posts are tasty carrots that nourish the rabbits, alleviating their nutritional deficiencies. :)

Yeah, but you have to quit stomping your feet so loud when you walk into a thread of rabbits..! You have to be sneakier than that! :)
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
The question was a carrot offering. I was trying to strike-up their interest in something outside the constant theological discussions. It's mind expansion.
You're always trying to do something else when you ask questions about atheists in a way that comes off crappy.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
That is a very narrow definition of religion. That is fine, you have the right to define your terms. But at the same time you must recognize that others may understand that term differently.
It ain't my definition...





re·li·gion
/rəˈlijən/
Learn to pronounce

noun
  1. the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.
    "ideas about the relationship between science and religion"
religion
noun
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re·li·gion | \ ri-ˈli-jən \
Definition of religion


1a: the state of a religiousa nun in her 20th year of religion
b(1): the service and worship of God or the supernatural


religion
noun

US

/rɪˈlɪdʒ.ən/ UK

/rɪˈlɪdʒ.ən/

[ C or U ]
the belief in and worship of a god or gods, or any such system of belief and worship:
 

ecco

Veteran Member
Sounds like quite a scathing criticism - almost to the point of calling them "defective human beings" (or, as Hillary put it, "deplorables"). You say "these people were taught to hate." Taught by whom? What, exactly, were they taught, and how do you know what they were taught? Were you there? Did you grow up in America and witness any of this during your lifetime?

I'm not necessarily saying that you're incorrect. I think there is a good deal of truth in what you say,

First, you dis my comments, then you state they are generally correct.

What am I to make of that?
 

ecco

Veteran Member
That's not the point. That narcissistic pathological liar was elected president in 2016, and many people still don't seem to have a clue as to why or how he was elected. They seem to struggle to make sense of what's happening in politics today. They'll blame the Russians. They'll blame Jefferson Davis. They'll blame Hitler. They'll look for any possible reason to explain what's happening - except they'll ignore what's happening in America.
I've not blamed the Russians. Nor have I blamed Jefferson Davis nor Hitler.

I blame the utter lack of critical thinking.

One argument against Hillary was that she was part of an underground pedophile ring being run out of the basement of a pizza parlor. The truth of the matter is that the parlor was owned by a homosexual and many of the employees were also gay. Someone started posting crap about the place and the end result was the above beliefs.

The utter lack of critical thinking comes, in large part, from the religious indoctrination received by many from childhood on. If you are taught to believe in talking snakes and taught to believe that science is your enemy, there is little chance to make logical decisions later in life.


Now boosting Trump's appeal is Q. That many people believe in the scrambled words of an unknown person is almost beyond comprehension. Now it's not just a pizza parlor basement, now it's a worldwide conspiracy of elite Satanists who drink the blood of stolen children.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
Sounds like you're in denial
...
while consciously avoiding treading on any "sacred cows" which are part of Americana.

You directed that to me. I asked what sacred cows you were referring to.
You personally? I don't know. But in the last post, you appeared to be deflecting, so it seemed as if you were trying to avoid the topic.

I'm not the one deflecting. I was asking for clarification.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
Maybe, although I think Trumpism has been more of a fad

Trumpism will be with us for a long time to come...

South Carolina GOP Censures Rep. Tom Rice Over Trump Impeachment Vote
South Carolina's Republican Party formally censured Rep. Tom Rice on Saturday over his vote earlier this month to impeach former President Donald Trump for inciting the crowd that stormed the U.S. Capitol.​
How Oregon just proved Donald Trump isn't going anywhere - CNNPolitics
On Monday night, the Oregon Republican Party issued a formal condemnation of the 10 House Republicans who voted in favor of impeaching President Donald Trump for his role in inciting the violent insurrection at the US Capitol on January 6.
Here's a sampling of actual lines from the Oregon GOP's, uh, proclamation.
* Whereas history tells us that after George Washington appointed Major General Benedict Arnold to command West Point, Arnold conspired to surrender the fort to the British."
* "Whereas the ten Republican House members, by voting to impeach President Trump, repeated history by conspiring to surrender our nation to Leftist forces seeking to establish a dictatorship void of all cherished freedoms and liberties."
Angry response to Hawaii Republican Party's defence of QAnon supporters from ridicule and its claims they are motivated by a 'deep love for America'
Hawaii's Republican Party posted a series of tweets that appeared to defend followers of the QAnon conspiracy theory.

The eight-part Twitter thread on Friday night, concluded with a call not to ridicule QAnon supporters.

The tweet read: "We should make it abundantly clear - the people who subscribed to the Q fiction, were largely motivated by a sincere and deep love for America. Patriotism and love of County should never be ridiculed."
Marjorie Taylor Greene: Most House Republicans silent over violent comments as Democrats condemn them - CNNPolitics
Most House Republicans were silent on Wednesday after CNN's KFile reported that Republican Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene repeatedly indicated support for executing prominent Democratic politicians in 2018 and 2019 before being elected to Congress.
 
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