QAnon believers grapple with doubt, spin new theories as Trump era ends

[ImmortalFlame]

This thread is actually about "faith" and "believing"... That's what conspiracy theories are -- faith without evidence.

Q anon are a political group. You are talking specifically about the religious aspect of them, but surely this is something you expected a variety of responses on, right?

I mean, when you originally started the OP with the question "Does anybody else think that Qanon exists because of a lack of faith in God?", did you really only want ONE response? If so, then why even put it in the form of a question?

 

[Cooky]

Q anon are a political group. You are talking specifically about the religious aspect of them, but surely this is something you expected a variety of responses on, right?

I mean, when you originally started the OP with the question "Does anybody else think that Qanon exists because of a lack of faith in God?", did you really only want ONE response? If so, then why even put it in the form of a question?

That's not the question I asked... Let's at least be honest.

...I don't know why you want to play this game, but I can see exactly what rabbit hole you're trying to play chase in, and that's the reason I only presented it to a particular group.

The next step can be ad homs, if you play your cards right, and I can be vilified as an atheist hater. Is that where we're headed next..? Because that's where it seems like you're headed with the way you reframed my question.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

That's not the question I asked... Let's at least be honest.

...I don't know why you want to play this game, but I can see exactly what rabbit hole you're trying to play chase in, and that's the reason I only presented it to a particular group.

The next step can be ad homs, if you play your cards right, and I can be vilified as an atheist hater. Is that where we're headed next..? Because that's where it seems like you're headed with the way you reframed my question.

What on earth are you talking about?

 

[Cooky]

What on earth are you talking about?

You misquoted me.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

You misquoted me.

To what extent?

 

[Cooky]

I mean, when you originally started the OP with the question "Does anybody else think that Qanon exists because of a lack of faith in God?"

The above words, in quotes, are a misquote... It makes it look as if I believe that.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

The above words, in quotes, are a misquote.

Okee doke. So you'd like it known that this is not specifically your position?

I mean, you could have just said that instead of ranting at me and making all kinds of assumptions about me. My post wasn't even about the question itself - it was asking you why you felt the need to ask a question if you only wanted one kind of response.

 

[Cooky]

Okee doke. So you'd like it known that this is not specifically your position?

I mean, you could have just said that instead of ranting at me and making all kinds of assumptions about me. My post wasn't even about the question itself - it was asking you why you felt the need to ask a question if you only wanted one kind of response.

The question was originally asked to a wide range of believers, including Jews, Christians, Muslims and Bahai... That's more than "one kind of response".

...I thought it was a kind gesture to get a variety of believers to discuss "belief" in a way that all could contribute without discussing one another... A way we could all work together... That's something new.

...Unfortunately, someone's priority is to hate politics more than their willingness to work together for a change.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

The question was originally asked to a wide range if believers, including Jews, Christians, Muslims and Bahai... That's more than "one kind of response".

But you want to limit the influence you'd receive specifically to the religious then, correct? So what responses could a non-religious person give on the subject which you didn't want to be influenced by?

 

[Cooky]

But you want to limit the influence you'd receive specifically to the religious then, correct? So what responses could a non-religious person give on the subject which you didn't want to be influenced by?

I wanted to unite believers for a change, but I knew if atheists were included, the subject would take a turn toward finger-pointing... Which happened, when atheists began singling out Christians.

...I wanted more of a philosophical discussion... Not a battle... Not a blame game... But the blame game is exactly what happened immediately after the atheists were invited into the discussion.

 

[Cooky]

I wonder what people thought I was doing posting the topic in the Abrahamic Religions section... I wish I knew. I wonder if what I'm saying makes sense to anyone..??

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I wanted to unite believers for a change, but I knew if atheists were included, the subject would take a turn toward finger-pointing... Which happened, when atheists began singling out Christians.

...I wanted more of a philosophical discussion... Not a battle... Not a blame game... But the blame game is exactly what happened immediately after the atheists were invited into the discussion.

Have you tried simply debating reasonably? There are plenty of reasonable atheists on this forum who would be happy to have an objective philosophical discussion about the religious underpinnings of the Qanon movement, but you have to understand that there is a reflexivity in the atheist community to threads or posts that could be seen as being specifically anti-atheist. You can call it hypersensitivity, but it isn't exactly unwarrented. Atheists have been pointed at as the cause of all kinds of social maladies, from tornadoes to terrorism. So, when you start a thread asking whether or not people believe that Qanon is a result of a lack of belief in God, it isn't too hard to see that as implying negative things about atheists.

If you wanted to be more neutral, you could have made the question more neutral. By choosing to ask that specific question in that specific way, you are kind of fron-loading the discussion and making it specifically a non-religious people vs. religious people argument (which makes it all the more unusual as to why you would not want non-religious voices involved). I'm not saying that your position is necessarily to "blame atheists", but that is certainly how the OP comes across at first glance.

 

[Cooky]

Have you tried simply debating reasonably? There are plenty of reasonable atheists on this forum who would be happy to have an objective philosophical discussion about the religious underpinnings of the Qanon movement, but you have to understand that there is a reflexivity in the atheist community to threads or posts that could be seen as being specifically anti-atheist. You can call it hypersensitivity, but it isn't exactly unwarrented. Atheists have been pointed at as the cause of all kinds of social maladies, from tornadoes to terrorism. So, when you start a thread asking whether or not people believe that Qanon is a result of a lack of belief in God, it isn't too hard to see that as implying negative things about atheists.

If you wanted to be more neutral, you could have made the question more neutral. By choosing to ask that specific question in that specific way, you are kind of fron-loading the discussion and making it specifically a non-religious people vs. religious people argument (which makes it all the more unusual as to why you would not want non-religious voices involved). I'm not saying that your position is necessarily to "blame atheists", but that is certainly how the OP comes across at first glance.

My objective is to always reveal true feelings... Never to condition people, or guide them to think a certain way... So when I asked the question the way I did, to that specific audience, my only goal was to see the TRUTH of people... Honest opinions...

...But some people don't want true feelings revealed. They want constant conditioning to take place. It's a little battle that's going on, behind the scenes, with me and a certain frame of mind that exists. I doubt that I'll persue it any further, as it's just a mini-battle, but I'll remember it for sure.

 

[ecco]

Does anyone think that Qanan exists because of a lack of belief in G-d/religion..?

QAnon exists because many very young children are brainwashed into believing religious nonsense.

QAnon exists because many very young children are never taught the concepts of critical thinking.

When children are taught to believe that snakes talk and the wood in fenceposts affects the spots on goats and thousands of kinds of animals all got into a little wooden boat and survived a massive storm, there is no room for critical thinking.

This also leads people to believe the end of times is coming "any day now".

This also leads people to believe in people like Jim Jones, David Koresh, and Marshall Applewhite.

 

[fantome profane]

Does anybody know if there exists any reliable research on the religious affiliations or beliefs of qanon followers?

Right now I am making the neutral assumption that they generally reflect the population from which they are drawn. Is there evidence or reason to think otherwise?

 

[ecco]

Does anybody know if there exists any reliable research on the religious affiliations or beliefs of qanon followers?

QAnon followers are giving up on their conspiracy theory after Biden's inauguration: 'Is anyone still holding the line?'

A Telegram user in a smaller QAnon channel with roughly 6,000 subscribers said: "If you want to give up now, you know where the door is. I wouldn't blame you at this point, but I'm standing strong in my faith in God, and in Trump and the team." That message was shared in a larger QAnon group with about 10,900 members.

Connecting belief in the conspiracy theory to Christianity has become huge for the QAnon crowd. Lin Wood, the QAnon-believing attorney involved in Trump's legal battles against the election result, shared a passage from the Bible with his 524,000 Telegram subscribers: "For we walk by faith, not by sight."​

Joe Biden's inauguration sows doubt among QAnon conspiracy theorists

WASHINGTON -- For years, legions of QAnon conspiracy theory adherents encouraged one another to "trust the plan" as they waited for the day when President Donald Trump would orchestrate mass arrests, military tribunals and executions of his Satan-worshipping, child-sacrificing enemies.​

People who believe in Satan sure as hell are not atheists. Sok, atheists are not QAnon followers.

On the other hand, Evangelicals are big believers in Satan. Therefore...

 

[Stevicus]

Does anybody know if there exists any reliable research on the religious affiliations or beliefs of qanon followers?

Right now I am making the neutral assumption that they generally reflect the population from which they are drawn. Is there evidence or reason to think otherwise?

I think that's a safe bet. One thing I always try to keep in mind when looking at these kinds of groups or the general situation in America is that most of us are products of the same culture, the same religion, the same influences, the same media, the same educational system, and basically the same ideals, mannerisms, social perceptions, etc. Sure, there are shades of difference and regional sub-cultures, along with sharp differences in class and social strata.

The problem I see with a lot of analyses out there is that they often start with the conclusion that all of these people (Q-Anon, Trump supporters, and other such "deplorables") were somehow spawned or hatched and came crawling out from under a rock. And then they try to come up with reasons to support their pre-ordained conclusion. There's no genuine desire to look beyond the surface, so it's easy to conclude that these people are all a bunch of defective human beings. Because there's no possibility that any of these ideas could have come from true Americans. America is a land of saints, and there's no possibility that any ideas relating to racism, ethnocentrism, xenophobia, militarism, religious fanaticism, or nationalism could have ever emanated from America. We're just too good for that. So, therefore, it's all the Russians' fault.

What religion do they all follow? American patriotism, the closest thing to an official state religion we have in the U.S. The entire argument at hand is "who is more orthodox" in terms of American patriotism. Who loves America more? When you cut away all the BS, legalese, and rhetoric, that's what the real argument is all about.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

My objective is to always reveal true feelings... Never to condition people, or guide them to think a certain way... So when I asked the question the way I did, to that specific audience, my only goal was to see the TRUTH of people... Honest opinions...

Sure. But why not the honest opinions of non-religous people or non-Abrahamics?

...But some people don't want true feelings revealed. They want constant conditioning to take place. It's a little battle that's going on, behind the scenes, with me and a certain frame of mind that exists. I doubt that I'll persue it any further, as it's just a mini-battle, but I'll remember it for sure.

Okay. But surely that is equally true of religious as it is for non-religious groups?

 

[Cooky]

Sure. But why not the honest opinions of non-religous people or non-Abrahamics?


Okay. But surely that is equally true of religious as it is for non-religious groups?

What if it's an internal problem? What if it's something a certain group should come to terms with on it's own, without another group lording-over the other with weaponized evidence. Couldn't there be a gentler approach..?

 

[Cooky]

QAnon exists because many very young children are brainwashed into believing religious nonsense.

QAnon exists because many very young children are never taught the concepts of critical thinking.

When children are taught to believe that snakes talk and the wood in fenceposts affects the spots on goats and thousands of kinds of animals all got into a little wooden boat and survived a massive storm, there is no room for critical thinking.

This also leads people to believe the end of times is coming "any day now".

This also leads people to believe in people like Jim Jones, David Koresh, and Marshall Applewhite.

I used to have a problem with expecting miracles... I was actively looking for them after prayer, but anymore, I don’t search for miracles. I don't pray for advantages, I just pray to God now and expect nothing.