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Psychological and Behavioral Effects of Belief in Determinism vs. Belief in Free Will

Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
In a series of fascinating experiments, researchers find that people who have been encouraged to believe in determinism of human actions (or disbelieve in free will) are subsequently more likely to behave unethically compared to their peers who haven't been similarly encouraged. Kathleen Vohs and Jonathan Schooler had one group of students read passages that asserted and otherwise promoted the view that free will is an illusion, while the control group read neutral material. The former group was then found to express weaker belief in free will on a Free Will and Determinism Scale, and were more likely to cheat on a mathematics task than were those in the control group. In a companion experiment, a group of participants exposed to statements of behavioral determinism more often engaged in deceptive behavior equivalent to stealing (in which they allowed the researchers to pay them for correct answers they didn't give on a mathematical task) compared to participants exposed to neutral statements or statements endorsing free will.

Baumeister, Masicampo and DeWall built upon these findings, showing that students exposed to material advocating determinism were subsequently less likely to agree to lend help to someone else (even in minor ways, e.g., allowing a classmate to use one's cell phone), were less likely to actually volunteer to help someone in need (even by doing easy work such as stuffing envelopes), and, most disturbingly, were more likely to engage in acts of aggression against innocent people than were their peers who had been exposed to messages that were either neutral or endorsed free will.

These findings are not really surprising. The authors cite other evidence and provide a brief account for why disbelief in one's freedom to choose one's actions correlates with engaging in undesirable antisocial behavior. Vohs and Schooler:

It is well established that changing people’s sense of responsibility can change their behavior. For example, invoking a sense of personal accountability causes people to modify their behavior to better align with their attitudes (Harmon-Jones & Mills, 1999). Believing that outcomes are based on an inborn trait, rather than effort, also influences behavior. For instance, Mueller and Dweck (1998) observed 10-year-old children who were told that they had been successful on an initial task either as the result of their intelligence or through their hard work. In a second round, all the children encountered a task that was well beyond their performance level (i.e., they failed at it). When the children were given yet a third task, those who thought their earlier success was due to their intelligence put forth less effort and reported lower enjoyment than those who thought their initial success was due to their own effort. The authors concluded that the former children’s belief that their performance was linked to their intelligence indicated to them that achieving a high score on the difficult problems in the second round was beyond their ability. Hence, faring poorly (on an admittedly difficult task) indicated to children in the intelligence condition that they were simply not smart enough for the task, which in turn led them to stop trying to perform well and to like the task less.

If reducing people’s sense of control also reduces the amount of effort they put toward improving their performance, then advocating a deterministic worldview that dismisses individual causation may similarly promote undesirable behavior.​

Baumeister, Masicampo and DeWall further discuss why belief in free will seems to promote socially desirable behavior:

. . . Vohs and Schooler (2008) proposed that disbelief in free will serves as a subtle cue that exerting volition is futile and thereby gives people permission not to bother. The idea of not bothering to exert volition appeals to people insofar as volition in the form of self-control and choice requires exertion and depletes energy (Baumeister, Bratslavsky, Muraven, & Tice, 1998; Gailliot et al., 2007; Vohs et al., 2008). In a sense, then, making people disbelieve in free will may serve as a nonconscious prime to act in relatively automatic ways, which would thus include enacting impulses rather than exerting control and restraint.

We examined two related possibilities, as well. One was that inducing belief in free will stimulates a conscious feeling of being active and energetic, thereby making people feel like they want to exert control. Another is that belief in free will supports (and disbelief undermines) a sense of personal responsibility and accountability. Feelings of responsibility and accountability may make people feel that they ought to behave in socially desirable ways, such as performing prosocial acts of helping and restraining antisocial impulses to aggress against others. The deterministic belief essentially says that the person could not act otherwise, which resembles a standard form of excuse (“I couldn’t help it”) and thus might encourage people to act in short-sighted, impulsive, selfish ways.​

A recent example of someone using the “standard form of excuse” to try to justify or explain his monstrous acts is serial rapist/murderer Steven Dean Gordon, who, along with another sex-offender parolee, kidnapped, tortured, raped and killed 5 women. During trial, acting as his own attorney:

. . . Gordon called his former parole and probation agents to the stand and berated them for what he insisted was their failure to supervise him properly. If they had been doing their jobs, he insisted, they would not have allowed him to associate with Cano, a fellow sex offender, and the women would be alive.​

Sex offender convicted of killing 4 women in Orange County

Fortunately and unsurprisingly, neither the jury nor judge saw Gordon's former parole officers as accomplices in his kidnappings, rapes and murders. It doesn't make sense to believe that Gordon was compelled by extraneous forces, persons or circumstances to commit those horrible crimes.

So, is there any reason to deny the findings of the experiments noted above--that belief or encouraging people to believe in behavioral determinism leads people to behave in unethical or otherwise anti-social ways? Is such a correlation between belief and behavior not what we observed generally?

Is there any alternative or further explanation for these findings than what the authors have offered--that belief in behavior determinism removes the incentive for making the effort to solve difficult problems or to act ethically?

One thing it seems the above (and many other) experiments indisputably demonstrate is the causal efficacy of beliefs. What we believe affects what we do.
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
Oh, the irony. The irony is so substantive here I can almost touch it with my hands. o_O

Sorry, sorry... having trouble seeing past the very thick irony smoke in the air and making a more substantive comment. I suppose the only thing I feel like saying right now is that findings like this always need to be interpreted properly. Trends do not represent individuals, just as global climate data doesn't represent your local weather.
 

Kilgore Trout

Misanthropic Humanist
This is why people need to actually get a real education instead of reading random crap online and passing it off as informed and considered thought.
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
Having skimmed through one of the two studies, while interesting, the application is rather limited. What I find particularly odd about the one I skimmed is that instead of determining where a person sits along the "free will vs determinism" spectrum, they used something called "free will belief manipulation" instead:

"The free will belief manipulation was adapted from Vohs and Schooler (2008). Participants were given a packet containing 15 pages, with one sentence on each page. Participants were randomly assigned to read sentences in support of either free will or determinism or, in the neutral control condition, sentences that had no relevance to free will or determinism."

I'd rather see a study that scales a person on their inherent worldview instead of manipulating it like this. It would also be great to account for at least some confounding variables... perhaps whatever personality spectrum is the rage these days in the field (not sure if that is still the Big 5 or not). Anything that gets at why some who honor determinism do or don't exhibit the claimed connections. Expanding the sampling demographic beyond college undergraduates in America might help too... haha.
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
If I was a believer in determinism, I would be less concerned about my morality (not that I would do anything heinous mind you). I think I would also be less concerned about the fate of the world (hard to get motivated with a dull worldview). Determinism would produce a more pessimistic and nihilistic attitude in me.
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
If I was a believer in determinism, I would be less concerned about my morality (not that I would do anything heinous mind you).

May I ask why you would be less concerned about it? Why would a determinist be any less concerned with virtue, honor, ethics, or morality?


I think I would also be less concerned about the fate of the world (hard to get motivated with a dull worldview).

Similarly to the above, why would you be less concerned or motivated? Why do you feel a deterministic worldview is dull?


Determinism would produce a more pessimistic and nihilistic attitude in me.

Why would it make you more pessimistic or nihilistic?
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
May I ask why you would be less concerned about it? Why would a determinist be any less concerned with virtue, honor, ethics, or morality?



Similarly to the above, why would you be less concerned or motivated? Why do you feel a deterministic worldview is dull?




Why would it make you more pessimistic or nihilistic?
I an contrasting determinism with a worldview in which we are eternal beings and our developed good qualities are not annihilated at death. A spiritual view makes me more concerned with internal good qualities that as they say 'you can take with you'.

The pessimism will come with seeing I am just getting older and declining into annihilation. That's kind of depressing. And I would see the next generation heading for their short ride.

Sure the present has value but the mind knows of its soon end and our minds always works to the future and sees the bigger picture.

I also believe our nature is Brahman meaning our nature is pure being-bliss-awareness. So in the physical world I believe the natural drive of all living things is for happiness and survival.

Now, I am more talking about an eternal spirit than determinism but I do not hear of a determinism that includes a spiritual existence.
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
I am not a determinist. I am convinced that we humans have a measure (though surely not total) of free will -- or something remarkably like it. I have no proof, but that doesn't matter. I take responsibility for my own actions, as if I made them through my own choices. I feel "guilty" when I ought to, and I feel pretty good about what I've done some other times.

But what I read about the studies above is that it seems to be fairly easy to convince some people of things, for no particular reason than that it's the last thing they read. If you read about non-free-will determinism, then you may not (for a while) feel guilty about cheating. My question about this is very simple: "why do you actually think you believe something, if it's so easy to toss away?
 

Deidre

Well-Known Member
Even if one is a believer in determinism, the everyday process of making choices, would still be real. Even if it's just an illusion of free will, we would still feel like we made a choice. How can we separate an illusion of free will, and actual free will? Could we ever know the difference? Meaning, even if determinism erases the need for free will or choice making, we'd still believe on some level, that we were responsible for the outcomes of our lives. If you don't brake at a stop sign and roll through it, hitting another car, injuring others and yourself, you will still feel like you could have controlled that, if only you had stopped. I'm not sure if I'm making sense, does anyone know what I'm trying to say? lol
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
I am convinced that we humans have a measure (though surely not total) of free will -- or something remarkably like it
Interesting to hear after our past discussions.

Now, what is this thing that chooses (or can have some measure of free will). How could anything influence the motion of matter besides the physical forces?

You might actually be on to something (and no it doesn't end in God or Christianity).
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
Interesting to hear after our past discussions.

Now, what is this thing that chooses (or can have some measure of free will). How could anything influence the motion of matter besides the physical forces?
You mistake me if you suppose that I accept that "matter" is some sort of stuff hitting and bouncing off itself like billiard balls ('though Doug Hofstadter does an admiral job of describing such a thing in his book "I Am a Strange Loop." Quantum theory puts paid to such notions as early as the double slit experiments, which show clearly that quantum bits have both a wave-like and a particle-like existence, and when particle-like, exist (until you know otherwise at the end of the experiment) in all the places that it might -- probably. That's the only way such a thing could "interfere with itself."

I won't pretend I can be erudite about quantum mechanics and consciousness -- I certainly can't. But I accept that our consciousness is neither entirely materialistic (the way the "billiard-ball" aficionados would like) nor entirely "spiritual" (meaning without real existence, as the other side would have it).

I do, however, accept (and you may call this my "belief" if you like) that I have what I called a "measure of free will." I can choose -- even if sometimes it's only in rejecting what some "materialistic operation of my brain" chose for me.

We could call that latter "free won't," if you will. o_O
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
What is this 'I' you speak of that can overrule mechanical operation?
If you are going to focus on "mechanical," I have no answer. But if you are going to deny "mechanical," then you have no answer, either.

I have always thought it was a wise man who, on seeing a train hurtling towards him, gets out of the way. If there is no reality, of course, there's no need to do so. But if you do not, it is pretty generally the case that there follows an extended period of ----- no reality.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
I wonder to what extent the results of the study correlate with a person's cultural background?


Beyond that, the truth or falsity about free will trumps for me any consequences to moral behavior.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I believe that I have "free will" only to the extent that I'm aware of my own consciousness and ability to make my own choices, within the limitations of what is physically possible. I'm also aware that I will be held accountable for my choices and may face consequences if I choose to do something illegal.

But when it comes to human "will" itself, that seems a bit more complicated. Our bodies have limitations. A person's will can be broken if they go through too much physical or mental trauma. They may not be able to make sensible decisions all the time.

So much of our "will" is tied in to our biological organism and functions over which we have absolutely no control. Such as our need to sleep, but you can't "will" yourself to sleep if you have insomnia. Long-term insomnia and sleep deprivation could lead to psychosis, which could wreak havoc on one's "free will" - even if the insomnia went against one's "free will."

I can't even consider my own memory to be all that reliable. Sometimes I forget things, and it drives me nuts. I'm not "willing" myself to forget. I realize there's a medical and scientific explanation, but it seems to contradict the idea of "free will" when brought up in a religious context.

Part of the reason is that religion also holds people responsible for their thoughts and emotions as well as their actions. I can control my actions, but not always my thoughts.

That is, I would never touch my neighbor's wife, but I might not be able to avoid "coveting" her completely. If God made us this way, then what does He expect us to do, take cold showers all the time? Is that supposed to be "free will"?
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
If you are going to focus on "mechanical," I have no answer.
By having no answer I applaud that you at least acknowledge the mystery of consciousness.

Actually, since you believe there is an 'I' that has precedence over mechanical rule, discovering this 'I' is actually the goal of seekers of the jnana yoga tradition as taught by the Hindu saint Ramana Maharishi. Figuring out what this 'I' is, is really the path to understanding the ultimate mystery of consciousness. Focus on the question 'Who am I' until you figure it out. This is a very difficult question.

Beginners in self-enquiry were advised by Sri Ramana to put their attention on the inner feeling of 'I' and to hold that feeling as long as possible. They would be told that if their attention was distracted by other thoughts they should revert to awareness of the 'I'-thought whenever they became aware that their attention had wandered. He suggested various aids to assist this process – one could ask oneself 'Who am I?’ or 'Where does this I come from?’ — but the ultimate aim was to be continuously aware of the 'I' which assumes that it is responsible for all the activities of the body and the mind (Wikipedia)
But if you are going to deny "mechanical," then you have no answer, either.

I have always thought it was a wise man who, on seeing a train hurtling towards him, gets out of the way. If there is no reality, of course, there's no need to do so. But if you do not, it is pretty generally the case that there follows an extended period of ----- no reality.
At first I didn't see where these comments were coming from, then I thought you might be reading too much into my signature quote. I believe in getting out of the way of trains in this relative reality.
 
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Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Oh, the irony. The irony is so substantive here I can almost touch it with my hands. o_O

Sorry, sorry... having trouble seeing past the very thick irony smoke in the air and making a more substantive comment.
Here's what "irony" means:

1: a pretense of ignorance and of willingness to learn from another assumed in order to make the other's false conceptions conspicuous by adroit questioning —called also Socratic irony

2a : the use of words to express something other than and especially the opposite of the literal meaning

b : a usually humorous or sardonic literary style or form characterized by irony

c : an ironic expression or utterance

3a (1) : incongruity between the actual result of a sequence of events and the normal or expected result (2) : an event or result marked by such incongruity

b : incongruity between a situation developed in a drama and the accompanying words or actions that is understood by the audience but not by the characters in the play —called also dramatic irony, tragic irony

Definition of IRONY

Quote whatever it is you find to be ironic" in the OP.

I suppose the only thing I feel like saying right now is that findings like this always need to be interpreted properly.
If you believe there is anything "improperly interpreted" in the OP, quote it and demonstrate the error.
 
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Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Having skimmed through one of the two studies, while interesting, the application is rather limited. What I find particularly odd about the one I skimmed is that instead of determining where a person sits along the "free will vs determinism" spectrum, they used something called "free will belief manipulation" instead:

"The free will belief manipulation was adapted from Vohs and Schooler (2008). Participants were given a packet containing 15 pages, with one sentence on each page. Participants were randomly assigned to read sentences in support of either free will or determinism or, in the neutral control condition, sentences that had no relevance to free will or determinism."

I'd rather see a study that scales a person on their inherent worldview instead of manipulating it like this. It would also be great to account for at least some confounding variables...
Wow, just wow. Are you not familiar with the reason for randomization and manipulation?

How can one establish causality? The logic of experimental design prescribes the most widely accepted means of testing causal hypotheses. That is, the ostensible cause must be manipulated experimentally (by random assignment, in psychology) and the behavior measured overtly.​

"Conscious Thoughts and the Causation of Behavior," Roy F. Baumeister, E. J. Masicampo and Kathleen D. Vohs (2015), In M. Mikulincer, P. Shaver (Eds.), E. Borgida, and J. Bargh (Assoc. Eds.), APA Handbook of Personality and Social Psychology: Vol. 1. Attitudes and Social Cognition. Washington, DC: American Psychological Association. https://carlsonschool.umn.edu/file/96011/download?token=1EeMYI2Q

In science, randomized experiments are the experiments that allow the greatest reliability and validity of statistical estimates of treatment effects. Randomization-based inference is especially important in experimental design and in survey sampling.

[. . . ]

In the statistical theory of design of experiments, randomization involves randomly allocating the experimental units across the treatment groups. For example, if an experiment compares a new drug against a standard drug, then the patients should be allocated to either the new drug or to the standard drug control using randomization.

Randomized experimentation is not haphazard. Randomization reduces bias by equalising other factors that have not been explicitly accounted for in the experimental design (according to the law of large numbers). Randomization also produces ignorable designs, which are valuable in model-based statistical inference, especially Bayesian or likelihood-based. In the design of experiments, the simplest design for comparing treatments is the "completely randomized design".​

Randomized experiment - Wikipedia

There is a study that measured people's degree of belief in free will and (or vs.) determinism, then the researchers inquired at their place of employment about their job performance. People who expressed greater degrees of belief in free will generally had better job performance ratings. But, because this was not a randomized controlled trial, one cannot infer causation in these findings--these employees' job performance may have had little to do with their belief in free will and (or vs.) determinism.

Here's something ironic: someone critiquing an experimental design and the findings when s/he doesn't understand the purpose of randomization and independent vs. dependent variables in experiments.
 

Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
If I was a believer in determinism, I would be less concerned about my morality (not that I would do anything heinous mind you).
You say you wouldn't do anything heinous, but the students who gave larger amounts of spicy-hot salsa to the taste-testers who had an extreme aversion to such spicy-hot foods were just ordinary college students (who had been humiliated and rejected, and their beliefs in their ability to control their actions weakened). I am not so sure that we cannot turn you into an immoral person who does heinous things because he doesn't believe he has the ability to control his actions.

I think I would also be less concerned about the fate of the world (hard to get motivated with a dull worldview). Determinism would produce a more pessimistic and nihilistic attitude in me.
Good point. The evidence supports you:

The theme that disbelief in free will reduces prosocial behavior was extended by Stillman and Baumeister (2010). Students in their study heard a message designed to induce guilt about the environmental degradation caused by non-recycled waste products from student activities. Those who had been induced to disbelieve in free will were less likely than others to volunteer for a campus recycling program. Students with psychopathic tendencies were especially prone to show this effect. The pattern that free will manipulations have especially high impact on individuals with psychopathic tendencies seems an intriguing issue for further study.​

http://www.laurenebrewer.com/upload...wer_2012_-_fw_correlates_and_consequences.pdf
 
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