Protesters clash over transgender rights at Koreatown spa

[Stevicus]

I don't agree with that at all. He's basically saying, if you don't want your little girls to be around penises, you can't ever take them to a gym, spa, public pool, or any other place with a women's locker room/shower area.

Why should that be a problem? I recall when I was a kid, I was never taken to places where I'd be around naked adults, regardless of gender. If we went swimming at a community pool, we changed at home, before and after. We didn't go to spas.

I do recall when I went from 6th grade to 7th grade, which was the point when boys would start dressing out for P.E. class and taking showers after class. That was mandatory, although at some point a few years later, it was made optional. Now, as I understand it, it's unheard of at middle and high schools these days. I hear some schools just use the shower areas to store equipment, that they're not functional anymore. I don't know if it's the case in all schools, although I get the impression that it's not how it used to be.

 

[Jose Fly]

Not sure why you keep saying "penis" as any nudity is an equal issue.

Because it's part of the reality of the situation.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Because it's part of the reality of the situation.

Right. And as I explained, she was just policing in a spa, let alone a naked spa, she didn't own. Neither was she the parent of the 'young girls'. And she was in a state that had pre-existing laws that seemed to protect trans people from what she was doing.

 

[Jose Fly]

Why should that be a problem? I recall when I was a kid, I was never taken to places where I'd be around naked adults, regardless of gender. If we went swimming at a community pool, we changed at home, before and after. We didn't go to spas.

But what about people who do take their kids to the gym or a spa? Or where there are public pools like the ones in our area, where you can't even get to the pool without first walking through an open locker room with showers?

I do recall when I went from 6th grade to 7th grade, which was the point when boys would start dressing out for P.E. class and taking showers after class. That was mandatory, although at some point a few years later, it was made optional. Now, as I understand it, it's unheard of at middle and high schools these days. I hear some schools just use the shower areas to store equipment, that they're not functional anymore. I don't know if it's the case in all schools, although I get the impression that it's not how it used to be.

That wasn't the case in the schools my kids went to (just in the last 5 years).

 

[Jose Fly]

Right. And as I explained, she was just policing in a spa, let alone a naked spa, she didn't own. Neither was she the parent of the 'young girls'. And she was in a state that had pre-existing laws that seemed to protect trans people from what she was doing.

Again, I'm not talking about this specific case.

I just explained that to you: Protesters clash over transgender rights at Koreatown spa

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Again, I'm not talking about this specific case.

I just explained that to you: Protesters clash over transgender rights at Koreatown spa

Right. And if a parent takes a child to a naked spa, and it bothers their kids, it's the responsibility of the parent rather than the people there. They should actually be parents and hold a place in their child's lives. And if a school does it, and the parent has no say, it's on the school staff.

 

[Jose Fly]

Right. And if a parent takes a child to a naked spa, and it bothers their kids, it's the responsibility of the parent rather than the people there. They should actually be parents and hold a place in their child's lives. And if a school does it, and the parent has no say, it's on the school staff.

Obviously you're not really bothering to read my posts.

 

[Stevicus]

But what about people who do take their kids to the gym or a spa? Or where there are public pools like the ones in our area, where you can't even get to the pool without first walking through an open locker room with showers?

Then they do so at their own risk and should consider the possibility that they or their children might see others' private parts.

That wasn't the case in the schools my kids went to (just in the last 5 years).

Yeah, maybe someone younger can fill us in on what schools are doing nowadays in this regard.

 

[Meow Mix]

You know, I am not a parent so I don’t really know.

But I wonder what happens if a child sees genitals and asks about them if the parent just says passively and informatively, “oh that’s a penis, some people have those. Your dad has one of those. It’s a normal thing for some people to have them.”

Is it maybe parents freaking out about genitals in non-sexual situation that could be part of the problem?

 

[Revoltingest]

Penis or female parts, yes.

Is any gender separation of naked people acceptable?
It seems that some people advocate that anyone can
show anything to anyone in any venue with nakedness.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Is any gender separation of naked people acceptable?
It seems that some people advocate that anyone can
show anything to anyone in any venue with nakedness.

The subject gets complicated. I'll give an example. Say I didn't take feminizing hormones. I can take my shirt off in front of you and though it's weird, in some places it wouldn't really be illegal. However, after I've been on hormones for 9 months, it'd be extremely taboo, if not illegal, for me to just be flashing you.

So out of those 9 months, which day of transitioning did my chest become taboo to show?

 

[Revoltingest]

The subject gets complicated. I'll give an example. Say I didn't take feminizing hormones. I can take my shirt off in front of you and though it's weird, in some places it wouldn't really be illegal. However, after I've been on hormones for 9 months, it'd be extremely taboo, if not illegal, for me to just be flashing you.

So out of those 9 months, which day of transitioning did my chest become taboo to show?

In any continuum, there is no discernable point of one thing
becoming another. Nonetheless, there remains the question
of whether society should allow a person to flash genitalia
of one type to people of another type, particularly children.

 

[Jose Fly]

Then they do so at their own risk and should consider the possibility that they or their children might see others' private parts.

To be clear, are you okay with a person knowingly exposing their penis to underage girls?

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

In any continuum, there is no discernable point of one thing
becoming another. Nonetheless, there remains the question
of whether society should allow a person to flash genitalia
of one type to people of another type, particularly children.

Here's the thing though. Nothing was flashed illegally, as far as I can tell. This was a nude spa. Either the younger girls see a penis or a bunch of female anatomy. And if the person with the penis isn't raping anyone, how should it be more psychologically damaging than if they were around a bunch of naked adult cis women?

 

[Revoltingest]

Here's the thing though. Nothing was flashed illegally, as far as I can tell. This was a nude spa. Either the younger girls see a penis or a bunch of female anatomy. And if the person with the penis isn't raping anyone, how should it be more psychologically damaging than if they were around a bunch of naked adult cis women?

Did the spa mix genders?

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Did the spa mix genders?

You mean biological sexes?

 

[Jose Fly]

You know, I am not a parent so I don’t really know.

But I wonder what happens if a child sees genitals and asks about them if the parent just says passively and informatively, “oh that’s a penis, some people have those. Your dad has one of those. It’s a normal thing for some people to have them.”

Is it maybe parents freaking out about genitals in non-sexual situation that could be part of the problem?

That's one way I see this going....we all just get used to seeing breasts, penises, and such. Of course that would mean "indecent exposure" would no longer be a crime, even when it involves minors.

I don't know that society is willing to go there at this point.

I wonder how exhibitionists would react? Would they like their fetish now being accepted, or would it take away the thrill?

 

[Jose Fly]

Is any gender separation of naked people acceptable?
It seems that some people advocate that anyone can
show anything to anyone in any venue with nakedness.

And thus my earlier question.....why do we have separate locker rooms and showers for NFL players and cheerleaders?

 

[Revoltingest]

You mean biological sexes?

Lets say apparent physical biological sexes.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Lets say apparent physical biological sexes.

Okay some study I did comes to mind.

A person's private parts is generally considered their main sexual characteristic.

A person's appearance is their secondary sexual characteristic.

So yeah. If I were to try to aim at your line of thought, and not LGBT+ politically correct descriptions, they're half mixing it, half not. If it's a pre-op transgender woman, they're putting two people together with different sexual characteristics, but the same secondary sexual characteristics.