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Protesters clash over transgender rights at Koreatown spa

Jose Fly

Fisker of men
I wouldn't say they're equivalent. One would be a criminal action directed at an individual for any number of possible reasons. That's a sex crime. If they're in a locker room changing clothes, then it's not directed at any individual and most likely no intent to commit any harm.
I get your point, but I'm looking at this from the perspective of the parent. From that view, there's no real effective difference. In both cases, your girls are going to see someone's penis. Whether it's a guy sitting on a park bench with his pants down or a trans woman on her way to the shower, the end result is the same.

Here's another example, perhaps a closer equivalency to what we're talking about. I sometimes like watching blooper videos, and they had one video where a reporter was doing a live interview in a sports locker room (don't recall the team, sport, or league, but it's not important). Anyway, during the interview, another player had walked in view of the camera. Due to the camera angle, the player's face was not visible, you could only see below the waist, but everything below the waist was visible, if you get my meaning.

It was an accident; I'm sure the sports reporter wasn't intending to do a porno. The player may not have seen the camera or knew that it was on. I think the TV station still had to pay a fine, but it was clear that it was unintentional and inadvertent.
I think I remember that.

Maybe it's not something one would expect or want to see on TV, but accidents can happen. Would it be traumatizing to younger children? I can't really say. I'm not a psychologist, but my guess is that if a kid saw it, they'd probably think it was funny. Even adults think it's funny. I think it's funny, because I think bloopers are funny, even if most of them aren't that shocking.
I think in the end, that's the fundamental issue. Perhaps we are moving towards a point where body parts/genitilia aren't a big deal anymore. Your daughters saw a penis? So what? There's penises everywhere!

Of course, there's also the question of whether they should be bringing in cameras to sports locker rooms in the first place. I still remember the hullaballoo back in the 70s when the male players got upset that a court order forced them to allow women reporters in the locker room. Of course, the media turned it into a big circus, as they are often wont to do.
It's like I asked earlier....why do NFL players have separate locker rooms and showers from the cheerleaders?
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I get your point, but I'm looking at this from the perspective of the parent. From that view, there's no real effective difference. In both cases, your girls are going to see someone's penis. Whether it's a guy sitting on a park bench with his pants down or a trans woman on her way to the shower, the end result is the same.

True, although I think the circumstances would matter. One might visit an art museum and see a naked statue.

I would suggest that it's not the seeing of a penis, in and of itself. After all, they might see penises on horses or dogs. It's a piece of anatomy, like a foot or a nose, just a dangling piece of flesh. The only part of the anatomy which is truly frightening is the brain, or more specifically, the human mind. That's where all harm and malice comes from, and the mind just uses all the other parts under its control to commit harm against others. Some guys joke about letting "the little head do the thinking for the big head," but the little head can't think.

I think I remember that.


I think in the end, that's the fundamental issue. Perhaps we are moving towards a point where body parts/genitilia aren't a big deal anymore. Your daughters saw a penis? So what? There's penises everywhere!

Yep. As I said, people see genitalia on animals. What if a 7-year-old girl sees the penis of a 7-year-old boy? These things happen. It probably wouldn't be seen as big a deal than if it was an adult male. Sometimes, there are embarrassing moments that might happen where someone accidentally walks in the bathroom while someone else is using it. These are just unfortunate mishaps of life, but it doesn't mean anyone is being truly harmed. Or at least, we can tell the difference between situations and be able to judge the effect.

It's like I asked earlier....why do NFL players have separate locker rooms and showers from the cheerleaders?

Traditionally, I suppose it's always been that way. But seeing that we're progressing in the 21st century, maybe it's time they look at this rule. As I understand it, cheerleaders are not allowed to date any of the players, so this would preclude any hanky panky if they were to share the same locker room.

I've heard that some teams may start having male cheerleaders. So, would they use the locker room of the female cheerleaders or the male players? Or would they have their own locker room? And what about trans cheerleaders? That brings us back to the original question.
 

Jose Fly

Fisker of men
True, although I think the circumstances would matter. One might visit an art museum and see a naked statue.

I would suggest that it's not the seeing of a penis, in and of itself. After all, they might see penises on horses or dogs. It's a piece of anatomy, like a foot or a nose, just a dangling piece of flesh. The only part of the anatomy which is truly frightening is the brain, or more specifically, the human mind. That's where all harm and malice comes from, and the mind just uses all the other parts under its control to commit harm against others. Some guys joke about letting "the little head do the thinking for the big head," but the little head can't think.



Yep. As I said, people see genitalia on animals. What if a 7-year-old girl sees the penis of a 7-year-old boy? These things happen. It probably wouldn't be seen as big a deal than if it was an adult male. Sometimes, there are embarrassing moments that might happen where someone accidentally walks in the bathroom while someone else is using it. These are just unfortunate mishaps of life, but it doesn't mean anyone is being truly harmed. Or at least, we can tell the difference between situations and be able to judge the effect.



Traditionally, I suppose it's always been that way. But seeing that we're progressing in the 21st century, maybe it's time they look at this rule. As I understand it, cheerleaders are not allowed to date any of the players, so this would preclude any hanky panky if they were to share the same locker room.

I've heard that some teams may start having male cheerleaders. So, would they use the locker room of the female cheerleaders or the male players? Or would they have their own locker room? And what about trans cheerleaders? That brings us back to the original question.
All very good points and I really don't have anything significant to add. I'll certainly be curious to see how all this plays out. :)
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Antifa violently clashes with police outside Los Angeles spa following alleged transgender disrobing incident (msn.com)

There was another protest at the spa yesterday. Dozens were reportedly arrested.

upload_2021-7-18_4-33-25.png

Protesters and counter-protesters descended on a Korean spa in Los Angeles that became the latest culture war flashpoint just weeks ago when a customer complained that a transgender woman allegedly disrobed in the women's area.

Antifa counter-protesters clashed with baton-wielding LAPD officers near the spa on Saturday, according to videos posted by independent journalist Brendan Gutenschwager.

The LAPD arrested several dozen people and found multiple discarded weapons, including a stun gun, knives, and pepper spray.

One video showed an LAPD officer hitting a protester with his baton after the person appeared to spit in the officer's face, while another video showed an LAPD officer shooting a protester with a rubber bullet at close range.

A flyer posted online by the southwest chapter of the Youth Liberation Front, which was described by the Seattle Times as "a persistent militant voice," encouraged followers to gather at Wi Spa at 10:00 a.m. on Saturday to "SMASH TRANSPHOBIA" and "SMASH FASCISM."

"ROUND TWO MOTHER F******," the group tweeted.

The first round of protests occurred on July 3, when rampant fighting broke out between protesters and counter-protesters outside the spa.

A customer at Wi Spa posted a viral video to Instagram on June 24 in which she complained that a transgender woman exposed her genitals "right in front of young girls, teens and grown women."

Wi Spa responded by saying that California's anti-discrimination law protects transgender individuals, but it does not tolerate lewd conduct by anyone.

"As a spa located in Los Angeles, Wi Spa complies with California law prohibiting discrimination by a business, including the Civil Code provision set forth above," the spa said in a statement. "Like many other metropolitan areas, Los Angeles contains a transgender population, some of whom enjoy visiting a spa. Wi Spa strives to meet the needs and safety of all of its customers, and does not tolerate harassment or lewd conduct by any customer, regardless of their sex, gender, or other characteristic."
 

Kooky

Freedom from Sanity
Oh look, the police is treating it as a hoax!
It's almost as if we shouldn't treat uncorroborated stories spread by crazy bigots as fact.
[...] it’s worth being clear about what the hoax is even claiming: that a trans woman used a changing room that she was fully allowed to use … on a day when no trans women actually happened to be using it. There was no specific claim of wrongdoing or inappropriate conduct on the part of this alleged person, although the colorful language used in the video certainly sparks the imagination, likely leading those with a transphobic cast of mind to fill the vacuum of facts with horrific acts of lewdness or indecency.
 

We Never Know

No Slack
Dueling protesters clash outside Koreatown spa over transgender rights



Apparently, the incident happened last weekend and was posted to social media, which prompted protesters to show up yesterday.



The owners of the spa say they were just following state law.

Violence breaks out over trans rights at Koreatown spa | KTLA



There was one video showing a guy yelling "Jesus hates everyone! Jesus hates everyone!"

Life in these United States.


I may be a little naive on this but why do we break them down to....

Transgender rights
Gay rights
Black rights
Etc etc.

All are human so why not just call them human rights?
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I may be a little naive on this but why do we break them down to....

Transgender rights
Gay rights
Black rights
Etc etc.

All are human so why not just call them human rights?

I agree that all are human, and humans have rights. But the key thing is equality, and many groups have not been treated as equal. So, when there are disparities or inequities, it's necessary to point out which groups are not being treated as equal and come up with remedies. It's not a matter of giving a group special rights as much as it's making sure that equal rights apply to all.
 

ADigitalArtist

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I may be a little naive on this but why do we break them down to....

Transgender rights
Gay rights
Black rights
Etc etc.

All are human so why not just call them human rights?
They are human rights. They're also trans rights. They can be two things.
Some people use 'colorblindness' to dismiss that there are human rights issues that effect communities disproportionately.

Gay marriage was a human right issue and gay right issue. But some people made the argument 'all humans have the same right to marry the opposite sex.' Not only did this miss the point, but attempted to delegitimize the experience of gay people to make a false equal rights stance.
 

Fallen Prophet

Well-Known Member
Dueling protesters clash outside Koreatown spa over transgender rights



Apparently, the incident happened last weekend and was posted to social media, which prompted protesters to show up yesterday.



The owners of the spa say they were just following state law.

Violence breaks out over trans rights at Koreatown spa | KTLA



There was one video showing a guy yelling "Jesus hates everyone! Jesus hates everyone!"

Life in these United States.
It is okay to protest businesses and laws - but not violence.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
Skipping ahead...

https://ktla.com/news/local-news/in...over-l-a-spa-incident-that-prompted-protests/

by: Associated Press

Posted: Sep 2, 2021 / 03:49 PM PDT / Updated: Sep 2, 2021 / 09:07 PM PDT

A transgender woman was charged with indecent exposure for an incident at a Los Angeles spa that sparked protests in the transgender community.

Darren Merager, 52, was charged Monday with five felony counts of indecent exposure and an arrest warrant was issued, according to a Los Angeles Police Department announcement Thursday.

Merager has been a registered sex offender since 2006 because of indecent exposure incidents that took place in 2002 and 2003, the police said.​
 
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