Pro-Palestinian Peaceful Protests

[Twilight Hue]

No. Sorry. Hamas is a junta government. They took military power in a coup.
Their conservative party was elected into a tiny majority (44 to 41) representatives in 2005. Then they attacked and killed members of the more moderate party taking complete control in 2007. I do not consider that an “fair election”, or “duly elected”.

”It was in January 2006 that the Palestinian territories held what turned out to be their last parliamentary elections. Hamas won a bare plurality of votes (44 percent to the more moderate Fatah party’s 41 percent) but, given the electoral system, a strong majority of seats (74 to 45). Neither party was keen on sharing power. Fighting broke out between the two. When a unity government was finally formed in June 2007, Hamas broke the deal, started murdering Fatah members, and, in the end, took total control of the Gaza Strip. Those who weren’t killed fled to the West Bank, and the territories have remained split ever since.” - Fred Kaplan (journalist on international events and warfare).




Actually, I’m just retelling what people who know a lot more than you or I about the region have called Gaza.
What would you call it if your city was surrounded by fencing, and guarded by soldiers, who have orders to shoot to kill if you try to break through the fencing?
I would call that city of prison. I think most sane people would.
The issue about funding and supplying the people living inside this prison camp.

Gaza: Israel’s ‘Open-Air Prison’ at 15

For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it’s blown up in our faces

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/11/middleeast/qatar-hamas-funds-israel-backing-intl/index.html

.

Prison camp? Don't make me laugh.

Ever hear of things called battlements?

Castles have them along with enclosed towns and cities. Israel is doing the same exact thing with their cities. To prevent the terrorists from breaking into Israel.

Palestinians can still go to Rafah crossing which has nothing to do with Israel you know.

 

[Daemon Sophic]

Prison camp? Don't make me laugh.

Ever hear of things called battlements?

Castles have them along with enclosed towns and cities. Israel is doing the same exact thing with their cities. To prevent the terrorists from breaking into Israel.

Palestinians can still go to Rafah crossing which has nothing to do with Israel you know.

Nope. Egypt closed the border.

"Egypt, however, has warned against an influx of refugees. It facilitates humanitarian aid into Gaza, but has said a mass exodus of Palestinians out of Gaza into Egypt is a red line, saying it fears Israel might never let the Palestinians go back.

Egypt, one of the few countries that talks to both sides in the current war, is a key mediator between Israel and Hamas and is working to broker an end to Israel's war in Gaza. These efforts have taken on added urgency as Israel threatens to mount a major offensive in the southern Gaza town of Rafah, which sits on the border."

Normally only about 40,000 people live in the Rafah region of the Gaza strip. Now, roughly 1.5 MILLION are bottled up in Rafah, exactly where Netanyahu has said he wants to center his next wave of attacks.
Jordan also refuses to take refugees for similar reasons.

https://www.npr.org/2024/02/26/1232826942/rafah-gaza-palestinians-egypt-border

Why Egypt and other Arab countries are unwilling to take in Palestinian refugees from Gaza


Edit:
I guess it doesn't matter at this point, since an Israeli tank column has taken the Gaza-side of the Rafah border with Egypt. Now there is definitely no crossing into Egypt. And likely no supplies like food and medicine coming through for the Palestinians either.

Live updates: Israel-Hamas cease-fire negotiations on a knife’s edge

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Israel has no choice. Imagine if you lived there and there was the constant fear of rockets by the thousands being launched, some of which could destroy your home and maybe kill your family.

You literally just described life in Gaza. Would you say Hamas has no choice but to engage in violent retaliation against civilians, too?

Or do you, perhaps, believe that what Hamas did isn't justified by the violence and oppression inflicted on the people of Gaza; just as we believe that what Israel is doing isn't justified by the violence and oppression inflicted on the people of Israel?

 

[Twilight Hue]

Nope. Egypt closed the border.

"Egypt, however, has warned against an influx of refugees. It facilitates humanitarian aid into Gaza, but has said a mass exodus of Palestinians out of Gaza into Egypt is a red line, saying it fears Israel might never let the Palestinians go back.

Egypt, one of the few countries that talks to both sides in the current war, is a key mediator between Israel and Hamas and is working to broker an end to Israel's war in Gaza. These efforts have taken on added urgency as Israel threatens to mount a major offensive in the southern Gaza town of Rafah, which sits on the border."

Normally only about 40,000 people live in the Rafah region of the Gaza strip. Now, roughly 1.5 MILLION are bottled up in Rafah, exactly where Netanyahu has said he wants to center his next wave of attacks.
Jordan also refuses to take refugees for similar reasons.

https://www.npr.org/2024/02/26/1232826942/rafah-gaza-palestinians-egypt-border

Why Egypt and other Arab countries are unwilling to take in Palestinian refugees from Gaza


Edit:
I guess it doesn't matter at this point, since an Israeli tank column has taken the Gaza-side of the Rafah border with Egypt. Now there is definitely no crossing into Egypt. And likely no supplies like food and medicine coming through for the Palestinians either.

Live updates: Israel-Hamas cease-fire negotiations on a knife’s edge

That should tell you something about Hamas if Egypt closed the border. It's certainly not Israel.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

That should tell you something about Hamas if Egypt closed the border. It's certainly not Israel.

Well, you don't even take the bold in the quoute into account. Your bias is showing.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Well, you don't even take the bold in the quoute into account. Your bias is showing.

You don't even take into account its Egypt and not Israel that closed the border. Your bias is showing.

 

[metis]

No. Sorry. Hamas is a junta government. They took military power in a coup.

Conflict between Fatah and Hamas began simmering when Hamas won the Palestinian legislative elections in January 2006. Israel and the Quartet—comprising the United States, the European Union, Russia and the United Nations—demanded that the new Hamas government accept all previous agreements, recognize Israel's right to exist, and renounce violence; when Hamas refused, they cut off aid to the Palestinian Authority... -- Hamas government in the Gaza Strip - Wikipedia

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Conflict between Fatah and Hamas began simmering when Hamas won the Palestinian legislative elections in January 2006. Israel and the Quartet—comprising the United States, the European Union, Russia and the United Nations—demanded that the new Hamas government accept all previous agreements, recognize Israel's right to exist, and renounce violence; when Hamas refused, they cut off aid to the Palestinian Authority... -- Hamas government in the Gaza Strip - Wikipedia

What do you call it when a party wins an election, but then breaks the terms of that election using military force to ensure that there are no more elections and their opposition will never hold power?

Tell me, if a party was voted into power under the assumption that they would hold power for only, say, four years before further elections, and on the basis of a governmental system that required at least some degree of shared authority with a political opposition, but then eliminates elections and completely disempowers their political opponents through military force and continues to rule a country for hundreds of years uncontested, would you still call that a democratically elected government?

 

[metis]

You literally just described life in Gaza. Would you say Hamas has no choice but to engage in violent retaliation against civilians, too?

Or do you, perhaps, believe that what Hamas did isn't justified by the violence and oppression inflicted on the people of Gaza; just as we believe that what Israel is doing isn't justified by the violence and oppression inflicted on the people of Israel?

Let's keep it simple: Hamas attacked non-military settlements near Gaza, killed and kidnapped many Israelis, while at the same time sending rockets into Israel. They well had to know that Israel would respond, so what's the mystery? If where you live was attacked as such, would you just roll over and play dead?

So, what would you do if this happened where you live?

Never mind.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Let's keep it simple: Hamas attacked non-military settlements near Gaza, killed and kidnapped many Israelis, while at the same time sending rockets into Israel.

Yes. Bad. We agree.

They well had to know that Israel would respond, so what's the mystery?

Nobody is claiming it's a mystery. They're claiming it's bad. If you kick a psychopath's dog and the psychopath stabs you and your family to death, you could well argue "What's the mystery?", but it doesn't exactly justify what the psychopath did.

If where you live was attacked as such, would you just roll over and play dead?

Once again, by "roll over and play dead" you mean "not commit war crimes".

Yes. Yes, actually. And I do live somewhere where people have been the victims of terrorist attacks. And yet we didn't do war crimes in response.

So, what would you do if this happened where you live?

Engage in a reasonable military response to Hamas.

Also, your argument literally justifies Hamas. You're pretending there's no option other than to kill civilians.

Never mind.

No, not "never mind". The reasonable response to terrorism is not "kill civilians".

Do you believe killing civilians is a reasonable response to terrorism?

 

[metis]

Also, your argument literally justifies Hamas. You're pretending there's no option other than to kill civilians.

Did the U.S. and our allies commit war crimes during WWII? Has Hamas committed war crimes?

 

[metis]

What do you call it when a party wins an election, but then breaks the terms of that election using military force to ensure that there are no more elections and their opposition will never hold power?

That is not what you had posted.

I'm done.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Did the U.S. and our allies commit war crimes during WWII?

Yes.

Has Hamas committed war crimes?

Also yes. Do you think that justifies war crimes against civilians?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

That is not what you had posted.

I'm done.

Wrong answer. The correct answer is "a military dictatorship".

You lose the car.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

In other words War is Hell

Yup! Which is why it's good people oppose it.

 

[metis]

Yup! Which is why it's good people oppose it.

I think almost all people oppose it, but yet most will fight or flee when attacked.

 

[Revoltingest]

Wonder what those that are "disturbed" by the deaths in Gaza would have to say about civilian casualities in previous wars.
Let's look back
WWI 7million casualities on both sides with 10 million non-combantants.
WWII 70million casualities with a ratio somewhere between 3:2 and 2:1 or somewhere between 60% to 67%; of course this includes those that were deliberately killed by the Axix Powers
Korean War 2.7 million The civilian-combatant death ratio in the war is approximately 3:1 or 75%. One source estimates that 20% of the total population of North Korea perished in the war.
Vietnam War Cilivian casualties were approximatley 2:1 or 67%. This does not include Cambodia and Laos.
above figures from: Civilian Casualties

In other words War is Hell

You're making a point, I'd wager.
But I don't know what it is.
Possibilities.....
- Palestinian deaths are acceptable because war is hell.
- Palestinian deaths are insignificant relative to other wars.
- People "disturbed" by Palestinian deaths are disingenuous,
& are serving some other agenda...anti-Israel or jihadist agenda?
- People "disturbed" by Palestinian deaths are hypocritical
because they should instead care about other bigger conflicts?

What's your point?

 

[Guitar's Cry]

I think almost all people oppose it, but yet most will fight or flee when attacked.

Yes, when attacked a person must respond. But even in that there are consequences for actions. I do not deny Israel's right to defend itself or deal with terrorist groups. But how they do this should be subject to scrutiny. This is true of all nations.

 

[metis]

Yes, when attacked a person must respond. But even in that there are consequences for actions. I do not deny Israel's right to defend itself or deal with terrorist groups. But how they do this should be subject to scrutiny. This is true of all nations.

I fully agree.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

What happened?

"Kill the Jews." "Intifada." "We are Hamas." "From the River to the Sea." "By any means necessary."

These were never peace protests.