Poverty In The U.S. (We Should Be Ashamed!)

[Milton Platt]

40 Million Americans are living below the poverty level, and many of them are working full time. Here are some of them, and how they are surviving the American plutocracy.

We have thrown billions of dollars at the problem of poverty. It hasn't seemed to help on the whole. I have no issue spending the money, but we seem to be spending it incorrectly. And I really don't know what the correct way is.

 

[Heyo]

We compete more than cooperate. There's no such thing as cooperative economics.

One of the major false assumptions of the "free market" economy theory.
Corporations like to cooperate. When they can fix prizes with their "competitors" they can get more money than if they really compete.
The trick is to know who your competitor is and who is your ally.

 

[Heyo]

Scandinavia has a population of 21 million, is extremely homogeneous, and has an area of about 358,325 Square miles.

Yes, the US is bigger. But how does that impact scalability?
Germany has three times the population of Scandinavia and we have a social market economy (though not as social as Scandinavia). It scales here.

 

[dfnj]

40 Million Americans are living below the poverty level, and many of them are working full time. Here are some of them, and how they are surviving the American plutocracy.

With regards to your post, this video just kills me to no end:

People simply do not understand how bad it has become!

 

[epronovost]

Ease building & zoning codes to allow higher density & cheaper housing. - Not to much and you can get fire and construction hazards. I won't touch the environmental side, because than one is tricky, but it is there.

Spend less money policing the world. - Well, power always fills a vacuum, so less policing can lead to more bad guys.

Ease needlessly restrictive professional licensing. - For some professions yes, for others you probably have to tighten them. Ask for more.

I would had "victimless crimes" to the list. Usually, in that context, it stands for legalising prostitution, but prostitution when done strictly to avoid absolute poverty isn't a victimless crime. Prostitutes themselves are victims in that context.

PS: I am for the legalisation of prostitution, but it should be heavily regulated as to avoid making prostitutes victims and in should not be seen as "the last barrier before complete destitution".

 

[epronovost]

One of the major false assumptions of the "free market" economy theory.

The biggest error of "free market" economic theory was to not study enough other competitive systems in the natural world. A state of perfect competition is a transitory state between states of equilibrium in nature. An unregulated market will do the same thing. True competition will not last long in any given area before one party triumphs or each competitor specialise in different areas where both can survive without competing directly against one another.

 

[oldbadger]

Why do so many teens drop out of school? They are condemning themselves to a life of poverty. We must make young people understand the value of education.

That tenet is slowly changing here.

We probably have a different definition of school to you. All children must attend primary and secondary education up until 16yrs. I think that school or college attendance is free up to the age of 18yrs.

But after 16yrs that they can choose to leave education and make their own way. Young people around here are earning well in jobs like fence erection, flat roofing, decorating, waste disposal, cleaning, labouring and earning more than minimum wages. But many graduates are leaving Universities and finding that they cannot get employments in their specialised fields and they have fees and loans of between 30 to 60 thousand pounds to pay off.

What's the use of (say) an Honours degree in Paleontology if you cannot get work in that field without at least a 'First' or good contacts? Masses of grads are working in low pay jobs with few prospects now. They followed the 'middle-ground' education trail.

One of my kids graduated with Honours in radiography in the 90's, (when university education was free,) but she left that work to open her own Pilates and personal training school. My other kid left school with no qualifications and is now a very successful motorcycle salesman. There is little difference in their incomes.

Education is absolutely important, but the present system is just a fake money-go-round and it needs shaking to its roots. And it needs to be free.

 

[PureX]

No need to be ashamed for anything one didn't cause.
There are many steps we can take to improve things....

The world could be a vastly different place if we behaved like different people. But for that to happen, we would have to face the truth of how we, ourselves, are partly to blame for the sad state our culture and society are in. And how we, ourselves, will have to change the way we think and behave to make the changes needed in the world. Nd sadly, I don't see that happening. Right now, all we want to do is blame someone else, and look out for ourselves.

 

[PureX]

Why do so many teens drop out of school? They are condemning themselves to a life of poverty. We must make young people understand the value of education.

If you think the value of getting an education is in making young people successful slaves to an elite investor class that doesn't give a sh*t about them or their well being, then you are part of the problem. If you think poor people are poor because they lack "education" then you are part of the problem.

 

[PureX]

Where to start....where to start.....
First, by creating higher density housing,
less natural & farm land is paved over.
Higher density also makes mass transit
more practical.

None of these suggestion can even be considered by politicians that are owned and controlled by the wealthy elite through legalized bribery, and are being supported by voters who are too willfully ignorant or greedy to see that this has totally corrupted their government and disabled any hope for positive change.

 

[PureX]

How many are in the situation due to their own poor choices? How many are living in a city with high costs of living?

... So let them die. Because humans should not be making "poor choices" (choices that do not help the wealthy elite become more wealthy, and even more powerful and pitiless than they already are).

Take Maria for example. She left everything. Didn't go to divorce court, didn't get property that was her own before the marriage, didn't get alimony, not even an effort. Her own choice... Her situation isn't because of some circumstance she couldn't avoid. She walked away. A strong economy does not mean people get to benefit automatically while nullifying their previous choices. She is what is called a charity case

I seriously doubt that we know the whole story, there. Of for ANY of these people. But expecting that humans will not make poor choices is idiotic. And letting our fellow humans suffer for being human, because we think they should be super-human (like us) is also idiotic, and ruthless. And is ultimately enormously counter-productive.

 

[PureX]

Why not? Would you elaborate on that? Sorry, I don't live in the US.

Rush Limbaugh told him so. So there's no further need for consideration.

 

[PureX]

Someday they'll come up with a system that incentivizes helping poor people without cost to its citizens. Until that day nobody will flinch.

Everybody follows after money. Self interest is king. Economics is all about self interest. The principle of making everybody's life better will make everybody's life better doesn't seem to compute to humans.

Things have to be accounted for, and resources must be used wisely. And everybody must compete for scarce resources. We compete more than cooperate. There's no such thing as cooperative economics.

Out of all the money that currently exists people are going to monopolize and save, safeguard, and build their paradises and fortresses without regard to the poor. They are going to invest only where there is money to demand.

Poor people seem to be looked upon in a highly unfavorable way. Nobody has the freedom nor incentive to help the poor. Create a system that can create that freedom and incentive.

They need schools, they need guidance, they need healthcare, they need, need, need.

So long as we see our greed and ignorance as 'inevitable', it will remain inevitable. In fact, it will get worse and worse, as it has been doing for many decades in this country (since the Great Depression and WW2, which finally taught us the need to unify and cooperate against the forces of greed, division, and subjugation).

 

[Revoltingest]

The world could be a vastly different place if we behaved like different people. But for that to happen, we would have to face the truth of how we, ourselves, are partly to blame for the sad state our culture and society are in. And how we, ourselves, will have to change the way we think and behave to make the changes needed in the world. Nd sadly, I don't see that happening. Right now, all we want to do is blame someone else, and look out for ourselves.

I'll allow you to take on extra blame in my stead.

 

[PureX]

I'll allow you to take on extra blame in my stead.

Of course you will.

 

[Revoltingest]

None of these suggestion can even be considered by politicians that are owned and controlled by the wealthy elite through legalized bribery, and are being supported by voters who are too willfully ignorant or greedy to see that this has totally corrupted their government and disabled any hope for positive change.

Problems notwithstanding, I do see grudging efforts to
boost housing density, eg, Portland OR, Ann Arbor, MI.

But the problem isn't the wealthy elite...it's NIMBYs, eg,
homeowners who like their neighborhoods being spread
out....& this includes people who are otherwise liberal.
Blaming those who aren't behind the problem will get
us nowhere.

 

[Revoltingest]

Of course you will.

Well, you have broad shoulders.
And you know that I don't do shame.

 

[PureX]

Problems notwithstanding, I do see grudging efforts to
boost housing density, eg, Portland OR, Ann Arbor, MI.

Every major city in this country already tried the "housing density" solution, and it was a colossal failure.

 

[Revoltingest]

Every major city in this country already tried the "housing density" solution, and it was a colossal failure.

I'm confused....does this mean you favor
low density housing, even for major cities?
Btw high density housing is what enables people living
in cities like NYC & Chicago to give up car ownership.
Mass transit does it all for many. I call that wonderful.
But ya just canna do that in sprawling subdivisions with
no population center.

 

[Shad]

... So let them die.

Never said that. My point was you grandstanding based on little information and trying to guilt trip people.

Because humans should not be making "poor choices" (choices that do not help the wealthy elite become more wealthy, and even more powerful and pitiless than they already are).

Babble. My point was people can make poor choices that place themselves in the situation they complain about. Ergo Maria. She walked away from everything, her choice.

I seriously doubt that we know the whole story, there.

Bingo. Hence why your "ashamed" point falls flat. You have 5 seconds of information then jump to a conclusion about how people should feel

But expecting that humans will not make poor choices is idiotic.

Strawman. I made no such exportation. My point was sympathy falls flats when the person created their own mess.

And letting our fellow humans suffer for being human,

No. My point was many people suffer from their own poor choices.

because we think they should be super-human (like us) is also idiotic, and ruthless. And is ultimately enormously counter-productive.

Now you are arguing against a fiction in your head