Pope Francis allows priests to bless same-sex couples (not marriage)

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I don't think I will ever fail to be shocked that there are apparently people who actually believe in that.

It is a real strong mark against so-called religion.

He got it out of the same book that tells him to stone his daughter if she's not a virgin when she marries, or to murder his son for disobedience -- neither of which he would do, of course. I call it the "Leviticus Buffet:" take only what you like, ignore the rest.

And besides, once you've discovered the joys of judging and codemning others, it's kind of hard to stop doing it.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Why do LGBTQ+ people want to be Catholic? Why would you want to be part of an organisation that officially condemns who they are?

There's more to life than sex and who I'm attracted to isn't who I am. The same sexual rules apply to everyone in the Church. We all could stand to be more compassionate, though.

As for the trans stuff, that's really a separate issue that the Catholic Church has no definitive teaching on at this time.

Interestingly, aside from the sexual stuff, the Catholic Church was a friend of those who otherwise didn't fit into gender norms because we don't believe that marriage is required of everyone, even for all laypeople. So no one should be forced into marriage or behaving according to strict sex roles. Becoming a nun or a monk was a refuge for people who didn't fit the norm. A eunuch was one of the first Gentile converts to Christianity, after all.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Hate and judgment doesn't apply when the sodomite is told that unless both he and his lover repent and cease to sodomize and be sodomized, they are going to lose their immortal souls to hell. Indeed, it is the duty and it is incumbent upon the Christian advisor to warn the sinners or the advisor himself will be held to account before God for failing his duty. Sinful acts have consequences. When this advice is said out of love and concern for their immortal souls, it is fraternal correction, it is charity, not hate. I can understand if homosexuals so identify with their sin that they cannot separate their identities from their sinful acts. It would explain why they feel would feel hated; however, sodomy and the sodomizers are of TWO separate substances, not one; they do nor coinhere. When parents rebuke and correct their children for misbehavior, do they hate them? Of course not. They hate their behaviors. Even so, Our Heavenly Father hates not us, but our sin.

An open letter to Dr. Laura Schlessinger:

I got the following letter off the Net, but without an attribution. After a few false starts, I eventually discovered the author .

I have annotated the letter with the actual verses quoted , towards the end.

---

For those of you that are not following the recent controversy that has to do with Laura Schlessinger: she is a radio personality who dispenses advice to people who call in to her radio show. Paramount Television Group is currently producing a "Dr. Laura" television show. Recently she has become a convert to Judaism, and now she is Ba'al T'shuvah. Recently, she has made some statements about homosexuals that has caused the Canadian anti-hate laws to censure her... The following is an open letter to Dr. Laura which was posted on the internet...

J. Kent Ashcraft​

May 2000​

Dear Dr. Laura,

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind him that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.

I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific laws and how to best follow them.

a) When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord ( Lev 1:9 ). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

b) I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7 . In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

c) I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness ( Lev 15:19-24 ). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

d) Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

e) I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

f) A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an Abomination ( Lev 11:10 ), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

g) Lev 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

h) Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev 19:27 . How should they die?

i) I know from Lev 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

j) My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? ( Lev 24:10-16 ) Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? ( Lev. 20:14 )

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help.

Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

Your devoted disciple and adoring fan.

 

[LuisDantas]

Just in case anyone thought he was an enlightened person at heart, he puts us right.

The Pope: “Surrogate motherhood is regrettable and the gender theory is very dangerous” | Corriere Canadese

VATICAN CITY - Had it been said by any pro-life or “anti-gender” activist, no one would have paid any attention. But when the author is Pope Francis, the perception takes on a weighty tone. Affirmations that “surrogacy is regrettable” and that “gender theory (ideology) is very dangerous” will...

www.corriere.ca

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

I rather think that one is (usually) Catholic (or Protestant, or Hindu or Muslim) before they even recognize themselves as LGBTQ+. And as we have certainly discovered in all of our respective dialogues around religion, once it's been indoctrinated into one, it's very, very hard to get rid of it.

Good point. I guess I stayed with my religion for a while even after I realized it had elements that I disagreed with.

 

[libre]

Just in case anyone thought he was an enlightened person at heart, he puts us right.

The Pope: “Surrogate motherhood is regrettable and the gender theory is very dangerous” | Corriere Canadese

VATICAN CITY - Had it been said by any pro-life or “anti-gender” activist, no one would have paid any attention. But when the author is Pope Francis, the perception takes on a weighty tone. Affirmations that “surrogacy is regrettable” and that “gender theory (ideology) is very dangerous” will...

www.corriere.ca

But he's a pope, so people will grovel for the tiniest of gestures, let alone reform.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I rather think that one is (usually) Catholic (or Protestant, or Hindu or Muslim) before they even recognize themselves as LGBTQ+. And as we have certainly discovered in all of our respective dialogues around religion, once it's been indoctrinated into one, it's very, very hard to get rid of it.

What about those who convert to the religion as adults?

 

[Koldo]

As for the trans stuff, that's really a separate issue that the Catholic Church has no definitive teaching on at this time.

Being trans and living your life in accordance to the gender assigned at your birth is one thing, whereas transitioning and demanding to be treated as the other gender is completely different. The latter is undoubtedly frowned upon by the Catholic Church.

A simple example: U.S. bishops' new guidelines aim to limit trans health care

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Being trans and living your life in accordance to the gender assigned at your birth is one thing, whereas transitioning and demanding to be treated as the other gender is completely different. The latter is undoubtedly frowned upon by the Catholic Church.

A simple example: U.S. bishops' new guidelines aim to limit trans health care

I said "definitive teaching", which would be settled by the Vatican. Some US bishops' views don't speak for the entire Church, and the US bishops are known to be very political and combative, which I personally can't stand and wish they'd stop being so worldly. The issue is actually more complicated. I don't expect it to be really looked into anytime soon. All we get is vague denouncements of "gender theory" from the higher clergy, which is really about an ideology rather than a category of people.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Just in case anyone thought he was an enlightened person at heart, he puts us right.

The Pope: “Surrogate motherhood is regrettable and the gender theory is very dangerous” | Corriere Canadese

VATICAN CITY - Had it been said by any pro-life or “anti-gender” activist, no one would have paid any attention. But when the author is Pope Francis, the perception takes on a weighty tone. Affirmations that “surrogacy is regrettable” and that “gender theory (ideology) is very dangerous” will...

www.corriere.ca

An interesting point, and I've been thinking about it myself since I heard this latest.

It is a sad misunderstanding, I think, of what surrogacy is about. Consider just one example: a woman who has had uterine cancer, but still has viable ova and a husband anxious to help turn one or two of them into children for them. What could possibly be wrong with doing an invitro fertilization and implant into a willing womb -- even if it is a "commercial transaction?" The Church never had an argument against wet nurses providing suckle to other people's children, nor should they.

 

[LuisDantas]

An interesting point, and I've been thinking about it myself since I heard this latest.

It is a sad misunderstanding, I think, of what surrogacy is about. Consider just one example: a woman who has had uterine cancer, but still has viable ova and a husband anxious to help turn one or two of them into children for them. What could possibly be wrong with doing an invitro fertilization and implant into a willing womb -- even if it is a "commercial transaction?" The Church never had an argument against wet nurses providing suckle to other people's children, nor should they.

Myself, I am filing this under "concessions to appease the more retrograde among Catholic priests".

It is hardly a surprise; I have long accepted that the Catholic Church (like most if not all others) hinders moral development precisely because it has to deal with such acts of appeasement of the unenlightened.

I assume that too many feathers were ruffled by the previous statement and Francis felt the need to reassure them in their fear of change, questioning and moral advancement.

A shame. But hardly a surprise.

 

[metis]

they are going to lose their immortal souls to hell.

I don't for one second believe that, especially since scripture does strongly reflect cultural mores and folkways.

 

[metis]

I don't think I will ever fail to be shocked that there are apparently people who actually believe in that.

It is a real strong mark against so-called religion.

I agree and Happy Birthday!

 

[GardenLady]

Today the idea that has so infected our culture and now the Church is that sex exists primarily for our recreation. If it feels good, do it.

What we are talking about in the blessing of same sex unions is not recreation; we are talking about committed monogamous relationships. I'm no longer Catholic and I'm hetero, so I have no dog in this fight. But among the egregious things that drove me from Catholicism, this wouldn't be a blip on the radar.

 

[GardenLady]

It is a sad misunderstanding, I think, of what surrogacy is about. Consider just one example: a woman who has had uterine cancer, but still has viable ova and a husband anxious to help turn one or two of them into children for them. What could possibly be wrong with doing an invitro fertilization and implant into a willing womb -- even if it is a "commercial transaction?" The Church never had an argument against wet nurses providing suckle to other people's children, nor should they.

The Catholic church opposes any form of conception other than marital sex. The church opposes in vitro on those grounds and also on the grounds of the disposal of unused embryos.

When my nephew had chemo for cancer, he and his wife chose to bank sperm against the potential for infertility or genetic effects. My nephew's godfather, who has turned into the most conservative Jesuit I've ever known, went on about how essential natural conception is and how every child "deserves" to be conceived in marital relations. I can't even roll my eyes enough at that.

 

[Muffled]

I've never claimed as such.

BTW, didn't Jesus say something like "judge ye not..."?


Also, maybe if one really wants to see God, maybe they should just look all around at Nature.

I believe God in me is able to Judge.

 

[Muffled]

Here's the thing. We Gain No Merits and No Indulgences in the State of Mortal Sin.
Our prayers, fasting, and almsgiving do not profit our souls if we are in the state of mortal sin. We can gain merit and atone for sin only when we are in the state of grace. Therefore, a same sex couple, unless they remain chaste and in the state of grace, do not benefit from priestly blessings either individually or as a couple.

I suppose if we bless this mess it is still a mess.

 

[Muffled]

Your opinion-- not mine. With me, as long as making love is between two consensual adults, that's fine. Judgementalism and hate ain't my thing.

I believe I don't wish to leave a person in the pig pen when I can tell him there is a better way.

 

[metis]

I believe God in me is able to Judge.

So, Jesus was wrong. Got it.

I believe I don't wish to leave a person in the pig pen when I can tell him there is a better way.

You spew hate on those who love, and that's just so deranged and repugnant imo.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Why do LGBTQ+ people want to be Catholic? Why would you want to be part of an organisation that officially condemns who they are?

Catholic doctrine implies that the Eucharist is more important than food (and you can only get the "real" Eucharist from them) and that leaving the Church will result in a fate worse than death.

To someone who's been conditioned to believe it, this can be more coercive than holding a gun to their head to make them go to church.