PETA: are you for them or against them?

[Alceste]

Lol actually it was a question you really didn't have to justify anything.

Just giving you a nice, complete answer. It's not a yes or no question. Food ethics is a complex issue. We have to eat something, so we must do what we can to reconcile our sense of right and wrong with our sense of wanting a tasty snack. I've put a lot of thought into it, so it's a pleasure to share my views on the subject.

 

[Vendetta]

I actually think this means we should take more responsibility on our shoulders. We have the ability to do great damage or great wonders. But most of us are too stupid/selfish and that's why everywhere humans go there is destruction. The meat industry is one of the most shameful things in existence today.

Ok....we humans are omnivores so meat is apart of our diet or at least the diet of our ancestors. So, to be more humane what is your proposition on making meat plants more humane?

 

[Madhuri]

Ok....we humans are omnivores so meat is apart of our diet or at least the diet of our ancestors. So, to be more humane what is your proposition on making meat plants more humane?

Meat has never been a part of my diet and I'm perfectly healthy. In fact for thousands of years groups of people in India have been vegetarian. I've grown up knowing many vegetarians, both those who became it when they were adults and those who were born into a vegetarian family. None of my vegetarian friends have related health issues.

Humane murder seems more like an oxymoron to me. But if people have to eat meat, I think it more humane (in most cases) to hunt.
For the time being, I'd be happier if people simply cut down on their meat intake. The average person eats far more than is recommended for health.

 

[ninerbuff]

And I think you read too many American papers. Your perspective on global warning, GM food and industrial fishing is questionable, to say the very least.

While my view on global warming may be questionable, industrial fishing does include fish farms which help to reduce over fishing because most of the fish is raised for consumption.

New York: Urban Fish Farm To Reduce Over-fishing Of The Wild And Produce Healthy Food - Ecofriend

As for raising chicken, cattle and pigs for meat, many of the farms (at least here in California) have worked on making caging conditions, space and living conditions better.
Proposition 2 Passes In California With Overwhelming Majority | ecorazzi.com :: the latest in green gossip

 

[Madhuri]

I don't think PETA fits the bill on any of those counts. Nevertheless, I don't object to them because at the end of the day they are the extremists in comparison to whom I look reasonable. If they were out of the picture, I would be the extremist.

That is actually a really good point.

 

[Vendetta]

I personally think there is nothing wrong with eating meat. We humans are apex predators and I think how meat is prepared is more of an issue than actually consuming it. But guys come on, in actuality when you take that bite of that grilled salmon, you don't think about the fish that suffocated and died, or when you eat that 12oz steak like Niner, you don't think about the cow bleeding to death. All we think about is nourishment.

Regardless whether we grow our animals or gather it up ourselves there is always a certain amount of suffering. I remember in philosophy of ethics class we discuss animal ethics and some guy had the nerve to say "when I take that bite of the burger, I thank the cow for suffering for me," lol

PETA exasperates the issue when it comes to animal rights. Sure, if I am going to enjoy a good burger I hope the cow had minimal suffering as possible but either way the animal ends up dead.

 

[ninerbuff]

Yes, unwanted pets are starved to death and neglected by their owners, or they are gassed and shot by the agencies that intervene in cases of mistreatment or neglect.

What does that have to do with factory farming? This is a straw man argument.

 

[Vendetta]

Meat has never been a part of my diet and I'm perfectly healthy. In fact for thousands of years groups of people in India have been vegetarian. I've grown up knowing many vegetarians, both those who became it when they were adults and those who were born into a vegetarian family. None of my vegetarian friends have related health issues.

Humane murder seems more like an oxymoron to me. But if people have to eat meat, I think it more humane (in most cases) to hunt.
For the time being, I'd be happier if people simply cut down on their meat intake. The average person eats far more than is recommended for health.

You have some good points. But the humans I am referring to are our ancestors (yours and mine) that migrated to India and other lands. I agree humans can live without a tremendous amount of meat but I think simply forsaking meat outright over time is bad. Certain meats contain iron and other nutrients alternatives may not have and if they do, its not the recommended intake. So you're right, there should be a balance

Also, I don't think the slaughter of any animal is murder unless its for nourishment. Moose hunting or bear hunting simply for trophy is murder. But if I go fishing and I catch a lot of fish, best believe those fishies have contributed to my well being.

 

[Madhuri]

I personally think there is nothing wrong with eating meat. We humans are apex predators and I think how meat is prepared is more of an issue than actually consuming it. But guys come on, in actuality when you take that bite of that grilled salmon, you don't think about the fish that suffocated and died, or when you eat that 12oz steak like Niner, you don't think about the cow bleeding to death. All we think about is nourishment.

Regardless whether we grow our animals or gather it up ourselves there is always a certain amount of suffering. I remember in philosophy of ethics class we discuss animal ethics and some guy had the nerve to say "when I take that bite of the burger, I thank the cow for suffering for me," lol

PETA exasperates the issue when it comes to animal rights. Sure, if I am going to enjoy a good burger I hope the cow had minimal suffering as possible but either way the animal ends up dead.

I don't think that I could enjoy a burger knowing what it actually is/was. I don't think most people think about what their food really is or what it means to acquire that food when they have it in front of them.

Eating meat per se, probably nothing ethically wrong with that. For example, if you find an animal already dead, eating it isn't doing it any harm. So it isn't morally wrong. Of course, I think blood, flesh, pus, poop, etc whatever it is you end up ingesting from a body is so unbelievably disgusting. But that's a subjective opinion.

Are humans predators? That's a generalisation. Most humans don't act like predators unless they are actually hunting other animals...or humans. Most people just buy their meat from the supermarket and then there are the people who have no interest in violence or meat consumption.

You are right, suffering is unavoidable in this world. The point or being against the meat industry is to work to minimise that suffering. That's what ethics is all about.

 

[Madhuri]

You have some good points. But the humans I am referring to are our ancestors (yours and mine) that migrated to India and other lands. I agree humans can live without a tremendous amount of meat but I think simply forsaking meat outright over time is bad. Certain meats contain iron and other nutrients alternatives may not have and if they do, its not the recommended intake. So you're right, there should be a balance

Humans only 'need' one or two small portions of meat a week. And meat is only necessary if there is no access to the non-animal foods that also provide those necessary nutrients.

 

[Alceste]

I personally think there is nothing wrong with eating meat.

There are a few things wrong with it (global warming, deforestation, inefficiency, unfairness, inhumane treatment of animals), but nothing that can not be adequately addressed by sourcing our meat ethically and dramatically reducing our consumption.

We humans are apex predators and I think how meat is prepared is more of an issue than actually consuming it. But guys come on, in actuality when you take that bite of that grilled salmon, you don't think about the fish that suffocated and died, or when you eat that 12oz steak like Niner, you don't think about the cow bleeding to death. All we think about is nourishment.

I do think of those things.

Regardless whether we grow our animals or gather it up ourselves there is always a certain amount of suffering. I remember in philosophy of ethics class we discuss animal ethics and some guy had the nerve to say "when I take that bite of the burger, I thank the cow for suffering for me," lol

PETA exasperates the issue when it comes to animal rights. Sure, if I am going to enjoy a good burger I hope the cow had minimal suffering as possible but either way the animal ends up dead.

Death, uncomfortable though it may be, takes a few minutes. Being raised by the industrial agricultural sector takes years (depending on your species) - an entire lifetime - all of it uninterrupted suffering and misery. I swear I can taste the difference between "happy meat" (i.e. wild game, organic and / or free range livestock and poultry) and industrial meat.

 

[nameless]

Ok....we humans are omnivores so meat is apart of our diet or at least the diet of our ancestors.

they also had tail, should we have one?

 

[Vendetta]

I don't think that I could enjoy a burger knowing what it actually is/was. I don't think most people think about what their food really is or what it means to acquire that food when they have it in front of them.

Eating meat per se, probably nothing ethically wrong with that. For example, if you find an animal already dead, eating it isn't doing it any harm. So it isn't morally wrong. Of course, I think blood, flesh, pus, poop, etc whatever it is you end up ingesting from a body is so unbelievably disgusting. But that's a subjective opinion.

Are humans predators? That's a generalisation. Most humans don't act like predators unless they are actually hunting other animals...or humans. Most people just buy their meat from the supermarket and then there are the people who have no interest in violence or meat consumption.

You are right, suffering is unavoidable in this world. The point or being against the meat industry is to work to minimise that suffering. That's what ethics is all about.

Well when I say humans are predators we are overconsumers. Whether its population or overconsuming animal flesh, we are natural predators I mean overall.

 

[Alceste]

What does that have to do with factory farming? This is a straw man argument.

To be honest, I didn't read the original PETA quote in context. What were they referring to?

 

[Vendetta]

they also had tail, we should have one?

Perhaps if it benefits us. But apparently it doesn't anymore.

 

[Alceste]

Well when I say humans are predators we are overconsumers. Whether its population or overconsuming animal flesh, we are natural predators I mean overall.

Panthers are natural predators. Primates eat bugs, leaves, fruit and whatever they find lying around.

 

[ninerbuff]

Wait, what? You're kidding right?
Bolt guns are one of the methods of killing animals (like cows). A lot of these animals get diseases because of the poor conditions. Swine are often gassed in order to render them unconscious before slaughter.

Wow, these conditions are so much better than the nazi camps!

On a factory farm, if you've ever been to one, they don't use bolt guns to kill cattle. Normally they are stunned then slaughtered. Same with swine, although CO2 stunning is used on occasion.

We'll never agree here on the Holocaust and animal slaughter because we hold opposing views on the degree of humans and animals. I hold human over animal, so my view will always be that the Holocaust was much more horrific than animal slaughter.

 

[Alceste]

On a factory farm, if you've ever been to one, they don't use bolt guns to kill cattle. Normally they are stunned then slaughtered. Same with swine, although CO2 stunning is used on occasion.

We'll never agree here on the Holocaust and animal slaughter because we hold opposing views on the degree of humans and animals. I hold human over animal, so my view will always be that the Holocaust was much more horrific than animal slaughter.

Would you at least agree that your view is not rational? Is there any logical reason that one species should have special rights over and above all the rest? The bio-mass argument doesn't really fly (AKA the "dominant species" argument), since we are outweighed by many other species. There is 5 times as much krill by weight on earth than humans. Does that mean krill should have special rights?

 

[Vendetta]

Panthers are natural predators. Primates eat bugs, leaves, fruit and whatever they find lying around.

Don't make me use my jedi reflexes to drop kick you, you know what I mean lol

 

[Vendetta]

There are a few things wrong with it (global warming, deforestation, inefficiency, unfairness, inhumane treatment of animals), but nothing that can not be adequately addressed by sourcing our meat ethically and dramatically reducing our consumption.

I do think of those things.

Death, uncomfortable though it may be, takes a few minutes. Being raised by the industrial agricultural sector takes years (depending on your species) - an entire lifetime - all of it uninterrupted suffering and misery. I swear I can taste the difference between "happy meat" (i.e. wild game, organic and / or free range livestock and poultry) and industrial meat.

Wow you're better than me. When I grill my steak the only thing I think about is what beer im going to have and what barbecue sauce im using