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Paradox: Can God create something bigger than himself?

Ouroboros

Ouroboros

Coincidentia oppositorum
Milton Platt said:
Well, a concept is also something, is it not?
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It's not a thing (as in physical, material). It's a concept.

How many carrots can the quadratic formula fit in a square? It's a ludicrous question because the categories don't match. God isn't a "thing" in that sense that it can be compared to making things bigger than him/her/it-self, since God (to me) is the concept of All things. If God then could "create" a thing bigger than all things, then it wouldn't be a thing that it created since it then would be part of what God is.

But if god is only a concept, then god is no more real than the characters in Harry Potter. I'm okay with that.
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And that's totally fair. The idea of God as a creature, being, entity, person, etc comes from the old ancient religions, but over time, there are some modern philosophies where God isn't a thing in that sense.

Think of the theory of evolution. Is that a thing? Can evolution create a bigger evolution that itself?
 
Ouroboros

Ouroboros

Coincidentia oppositorum
@Milton Platt

I was thinking a little bit more about it. What is consciousness or simply a thought? Is a thought a thing? Is consciousness a thing? And if so, how big are they (in metrics)? How much do they weigh? Can a thought create a thought bigger than itself? If it can, does it prove that it exists? Or can't it do it, and therefore it's just a myth?

Or take Harry Potter as you mentioned. Does he exist? Does the story exist? Is the story a thing? If not, then what is it?
 
Milton Platt

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
Ouroboros said:
It's not a thing (as in physical, material). It's a concept.

How many carrots can the quadratic formula fit in a square? It's a ludicrous question because the categories don't match. God isn't a "thing" in that sense that it can be compared to making things bigger than him/her/it-self, since God (to me) is the concept of All things. If God then could "create" a thing bigger than all things, then it wouldn't be a thing that it created since it then would be part of what God is.


And that's totally fair. The idea of God as a creature, being, entity, person, etc comes from the old ancient religions, but over time, there are some modern philosophies where God isn't a thing in that sense.

Think of the theory of evolution. Is that a thing? Can evolution create a bigger evolution that itself?
Click to expand...


Yes, evolution is a thing. Doesn't matter what it can or can't do. That does not change the fact that it exists, as a scientific theory, and as a natural process. A god cannot exist without being a thing. No matter how you want to stretch and contort the definition of a god as commonly understood, you are left with a thing.
 
Jonathan Ainsley Bain

Jonathan Ainsley Bain

Logical Positivist
Kristoffer said:
What could be an answer towards a question like this: "Can God create something bigger than himself?"
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Of course!
That is the very essence of the word 'create'.

On a more orthodox note:

John 14:12, New International Version (NIV) Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things
 
Ouroboros

Ouroboros

Coincidentia oppositorum
Milton Platt said:
Until the god has been shown to exist, it doesn't make any since to worry about what size it is.
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Agree. But the title of the thread is "paradox can god create something bigger than himself" assumes that God exists in some way. Your view that God doesn't exist doesn't contribute anything to the discussion in the thread. Any theological debate can be swiped away with a little hand gesture and the comment, "prove God exists first." But that usually only signifies that the person doesn't really want to contribute or partake in the discussion.
 
Ouroboros

Ouroboros

Coincidentia oppositorum
Milton Platt said:
Yes, evolution is a thing.
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Ok. And consciousness, thoughts, gravity, light, energy, π, ∞, quadratic formula, stories, ideas, opinions are also then things. That makes the concept of God a thing in your view. Fine. That's how you see it, but I see a distinction between these "things." That's the reason why I put it in quotes in the first post that you questioned.

Doesn't matter what it can or can't do. That does not change the fact that it exists, as a scientific theory, and as a natural process. A god cannot exist without being a thing. No matter how you want to stretch and contort the definition of a god as commonly understood, you are left with a thing.
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I think we're talking about "things" in a bit different ways. When I was talking about things here, I was talking about physical, tangible things, not abstract or conceptual things. Sorry for the confusion, but I thought it was obvious that I wasn't talking about things in your aspect.

Here's one of the definitions online:
"
Thing
1. a material object without life or consciousness; an inanimate object.
2.some entity, object, or creature that is not or cannot be specifically designated or precisely described:
The stick had a brass thing on it.
3. anything that is or may become an object of thought:
things of the spirit.
"

I was referring to "thing" as in the first usage, not the third one.
 
David T

David T

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Kristoffer said:
What could be an answer towards a question like this: "Can God create something bigger than himself?"
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Infinity and naive set theory interesting topic!!! You should read the Russell paradox in math and comeback and reframe the question. As the same time read the gruelling Nelson parAdox in language. Religion personified infinity into an actor in a play. Where reality is the stage, it's populated with actors, and independent of the stage is a director in another dimension. So our modern multi abstractive tmi dimensional thinking got started in religion. Its bogus phosophically it's valid interpersomally but the writers understAnd this the readers dont
 
Milton Platt

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
David T said:
Infinity and naive set theory interesting topic!!! You should read the Russell paradox in math and comeback and reframe the question. As the same time read the gruelling Nelson parAdox in language. Religion personified infinity into an actor in a play. Where reality is the stage, it's populated with actors, and independent of the stage is a director in another dimension. So our modern multi abstractive tmi dimensional thinking got started in religion. Its bogus phosophically it's valid interpersomally but the writers understAnd this the readers dont
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Oddly enough, the traditional Christian god (to pick one) is said to be able to do the impossible (miracles) therefore he could do such a thing, however nonsensical it might sound
 
David T

David T

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Milton Platt said:
Oddly enough, the traditional Christian god (to pick one) is said to be able to do the impossible (miracles) therefore he could do such a thing, however nonsensical it might sound
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The physical is never contained by th
He word
Milton Platt said:
Oddly enough, the traditional Christian god (to pick one) is said to be able to do the impossible (miracles) therefore he could do such a thing, however nonsensical it might sound
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Oddly enough the bible isn't a science text. Can you believe that!!!! Although Christian philosophislzing turned it into one magically which has zero to do with the text!!! How is it possible to both read something and be clueless about it? How is the statement there is no such thing as a free lunch except for the cosmos also a rather clueless statement but people say it all the time ?
 
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