Oral Sex

[BilliardsBall]

No, as a Christian lifestyle is mandated or we are not living out what the Gospel actually teaches. Besides the Sermon On the Mount mandating this, so does Jesus' Parable of the Sheep & Goats. To not do so while claiming to have belief in the Gospel is like "cymbals clashing"-- a lot of noise but no commitment to Jesus' teachings.


You added "law", but I was not talking about Jewish Law.

You don't know what my commitment is and, just to let you know, not only do I contribute to charities but I also do volunteer work at my church to help those in need.

If you are a minister teaching what I call "rocking-chair religion", then you are preaching an anti-Gospel that's absolutely contrary to what Jesus taught. He very much warned us to be aware of just being "crashing cymbals", namely those that have no commitment to teach and live out the Gospel.

I understand, appreciate and live the commands--and further appreciate what you do.

Yet helping others with needs is not the saving gospel. IMHO, unless a person, no matter how rich in works they are, trusts Jesus and not their works for salvation . . .

 

[BilliardsBall]

There's the Parable of the Sheep and the Goats, the Parable of the Talents, the Sermon on the Mount, etc. This idea that you can never lose your salvation is very modern and doesn't make any sense to me.

It's not a modern idea. It's in both testaments.

To lose salvation, God has to resurrect my old sin man, that died with Christ on His cross (Romans 6), un-adopt me as His child and put the Spirit, given to me forever, in Hell (Ephesians 1).

God is my Father now. Trust Him that He can get me home.

 

[BilliardsBall]

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

I meant if you stopped believing in Him, would you perish?

If I stopped trusting Him? Stopped being faithful? "If we are faithless, He remains faithful, as He cannot deny Himself . . . "

If my daughter turns her back on me, is she no longer my daughter? I was adopted by God when I trusted Him. I cannot be un-adopted.

 

[metis]

Yet helping others with needs is not the saving gospel.

But it's living out of the Gospel so as to do what we can do to "love one another" and teach the faith, both being actions that are expected of us.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

It's not a modern idea. It's in both testaments.

To lose salvation, God has to resurrect my old sin man, that died with Christ on His cross (Romans 6), un-adopt me as His child and put the Spirit, given to me forever, in Hell (Ephesians 1).

God is my Father now. Trust Him that He can get me home.

You have free will and can turn away from God, hence why people get excommunicated or are considered apostates.

 

[BilliardsBall]

But it's living out of the Gospel so as to do what we can do to "love one another" and teach the faith, both being actions that are expected of us.

So should I take as accurate/proscriptive both the Sermon on the Mount and John 3:3, 3:7 and 3:16, I MUST be born again to get to Heaven, to even see it?

 

[BilliardsBall]

You have free will and can turn away from God, hence why people get excommunicated or are considered apostates.

My child has free will, but could shoot me in the gut with a bullet, and I'd still love her, and she'd still be my child.

Since born agains are children of God, how can we become children of the devil again, destined for Hell? Compare my love for my children to God's love for us, shown on the cross!

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

My child has free will, but could shoot me in the gut with a bullet, and I'd still love her, and she'd still be my child.

Since born agains are children of God, how can we become children of the devil again, destined for Hell? Compare my love for my children to God's love for us, shown on the cross!

I.never said God stops loving us. He doesn't. God even loves Satan. But He respects our choices.

 

[metis]

So should I take as accurate/proscriptive both the Sermon on the Mount and John 3:3, 3:7 and 3:16, I MUST be born again to get to Heaven, to even see it?

Yes, but that involves commitment. But like the Parable of the Mustard Seed teaches, for probably most of us it is a gradual process that's still fraught with danger as one could abandon the faith [Parable of the Seed & Sower]. IOW, "once saved, always saved" is definitely nonsensical.

 

[CG Didymus]

I have never engaged in and never will engage in oral sex. It is perverted sex. I know the right way and wrong way to have sex from the Law

It’s disgusting. And for people who are seeking a holy way of life (Leviticus 19:2), this sort of sex shouldn’t even be named among those who call themselves believers. In the Kingdom of Yahweh that is coming, all such acts will be outlawed.

I can’t change the world but my hope and prayer is that Yahweh’s Kingdom would come soon so that people would learn what true love really means and enjoy the happiness and peace that comes from keeping the Law.

So in God's Kingdom the Law will be re-instituted? And all "bad" things like oral sex will be outlawed? And how will the enforcers know who is breaking the law? And what will be the punishment? Stoning?

So you know the proper way to have sex. How did you learn it? From reading the Bible? And you got together with your wife and knew exactly what to do and what was going to happen?

Now for kids growing up, what do you think? Probably no suggestive clothing and probably no makeup. No dancing. How about kissing? Probably not, because they will for sure get aroused and it might lead to them touching each other. So probably better have them chaperoned. So no kissing, no dancing, definitely no touching.

But then they get married. Now what can they do? Kissing's got to be okay... but where and how much? The cheek and lips? How about the neck? How about lower? How about even lower? No? Not even for married couples? How about fondling? Can they touch each other in those "special" places? Fingers are okay or no? Lips and tongues of course not... that would be oral sex, so they can't do that. Okay somehow, they got aroused. Are they in a room with the lights on or off? If they are on, is it okay if they look down there and see what's going on? If not, they just go by feel and hope he finds the right place to go in and not that other wrong place?

So I suppose missionary is okay. What other positions are okay? Doggy? Probably not, right? That's just too dirty to be looking at her back side. So, you've gone in and out for a time and do your thing, did she get "pleasured"? Or, does that even matter? Would that be considered doing it for "fun"? Her fun. It's not necessary to get her pregnant, so it's probably not a priority. And, how about doing it for fun? That's got to be so wrong. Having sex to enjoy? And not to make a baby?

No, that would be so evil. Pretty soon the married couple would be doing things that brought each other pleasure. Which, you know, could eventually lead to a married couple touching and doing things to each other with their tongues and lips. Yuck! But, not to worry, the sex police who were watching through a window or were recording it with a hidden camera can then bust them, prosecute them and stone them to death. Just like God commanded.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Yes, but that involves commitment. But like the Parable of the Mustard Seed teaches, for probably most of us it is a gradual process that's still fraught with danger as one could abandon the faith [Parable of the Seed & Sower]. IOW, "once saved, always saved" is definitely nonsensical.

But the Bible does not say "trusting Jesus involves commitment". It says "whoever places their trust in Jesus WILL NEVER PERISH."

WILL NEVER PERISH = saved, always saved.

 

[BilliardsBall]

I.never said God stops loving us. He doesn't. God even loves Satan. But He respects our choices.

But the Bible does not say "God respects our choices regarding salvation." The Bible says "trust Jesus and NEVER perish" or "trust your works and perish". That's it as far as choices go. Trust myself or trust Christ!

 

[metis]

But the Bible does not say "trusting Jesus involves commitment". It says "whoever places their trust in Jesus WILL NEVER PERISH."

WILL NEVER PERISH = saved, always saved.

That's not what "once saved, always saved" implies. As with the Parable of the "Seed & the Sower", and also with the "Parable of the Mustard Seed", faith is not an unchanging either/or dichotomy. Paul even tells the flock to evangelize fallen-away brethren.

And it's a very dangerous "theology" as it may lead a person to be careless with their faith as they believe they're already "saved". Even Paul was unwilling to judge himself because of his "innermost thoughts".

Even Gandhi noted this problem when he run across too many who believed that simply felt they could pretty much say and do whatever they wanted to because they believed they were already "saved".

 

[BilliardsBall]

That's not what "once saved, always saved" implies. As with the Parable of the "Seed & the Sower", and also with the "Parable of the Mustard Seed", faith is not an unchanging either/or dichotomy. Paul even tells the flock to evangelize fallen-away brethren.

And it's a very dangerous "theology" as it may lead a person to be careless with their faith as they believe they're already "saved". Even Paul was unwilling to judge himself because of his "innermost thoughts".

Even Gandhi noted this problem when he run across too many who believed that simply felt they could pretty much say and do whatever they wanted to because they believed they were already "saved".

Once I'm saved, I'm always saved isn't implied by "Whoever places their trust in me will NEVER PERISH"? Let's start with that statement you've made about John 3:16, then when can address the rest. If you need a parallel verse, consider John 5:24, "He who hears my Word, and trusts God who sent me, HAS ETERNAL LIFE, and SHALL NOT COME INTO JUDGMENT, but has passed out of death, into life."

Thanks.

 

[metis]

Once I'm saved, I'm always saved isn't implied by "Whoever places their trust in me will NEVER PERISH"? Let's start with that statement you've made about John 3:16, then when can address the rest. If you need a parallel verse, consider John 5:24, "He who hears my Word, and trusts God who sent me, HAS ETERNAL LIFE, and SHALL NOT COME INTO JUDGMENT, but has passed out of death, into life."

Thanks.

In order to be compatible with the other verses I posted on this, one must persist within the faith, and persisting involves having it as a lifestyle, not just a few p.c. beliefs. .

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I agree that society has become more evil. That is because people want what they want and they do not care what God wants for them anymore.

They certainly don't care what you claim God wants for them. If God has strong enough feelings on the matter, I'm sure he can make his wishes known without your help.

So regarding sex "anything goes" in modern day society, and if we speak out against that we are looked upon as some kind of freak, but that does not bother me because I know what God has revealed and that is what I will adhere to.

I've found that there's generally no issue with "I'm only comfortable with certain things and I'm not going to engage in what I'm not comfortable doing."

The problems arise when you twist this into "I'm only comfortable with certain things and I'm not going to let YOU engage in what I'M not comfortable doing."

 

[Trailblazer]

They certainly don't care what you claim God wants for them. If God has strong enough feelings on the matter, I'm sure he can make his wishes known without your help.

I believe that God did make His wishes known, through Baha'u'llah.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I believe that God did make His wishes known, through Baha'u'llah.

IOW, some other human presuming to speak for God. Not exactly compelling to me. Again: if God cares, he'll make his wishes known.

I'm confident that a God as capable as you've claimed he is could come up with a better method than hearsay if he really wanted humanity to behave a certain way.

 

[Trailblazer]

IOW, some other human presuming to speak for God. Not exactly compelling to me. Again: if God cares, he'll make his wishes known.

I believe that Baha'u'llah was a Manifestation of God, so He was both divine and human, not just "another human."
Again, I believe that God did make His wishes known through Baha'u'llah.

I'm confident that a God as capable as you've claimed he is could come up with a better method than hearsay if he really wanted humanity to behave a certain way.

If God exists and communicates, God has not come up with a better method yet, so there are only three logical possibilities:

1. God exists and communicates via Messengers, or
2. God exists and does not communicate to humans, or
3. God does not exist

Take your pick.

Moreover, if God is All-Knowing and All-Wise, then God would have to know the best method to communicate to humans in order to accomplish His Objectives.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I believe that Baha'u'llah was a Manifestation of God, so He was both divine and human, not just "another human."

Good for you. You've given me no reas3to believe this, so it's pretty much irrelevant.

Again, I believe that God did make His wishes known through Baha'u'llah.

I question your assumption that God has made his wishes known at all.

If God exists and communicates, God has not come up with a better method yet,

Then you have a pretty sorry God.