Only one way ? Only one path ?

[John1.12]

Yes, that's fair comment.

Though it's proper to take the midrash tradition into account. This apparently arose among the Jews of Alexandria in the mid or later part of the 2nd cent BCE and had considerable popularity. The idea was, as a group activity, to take any verse of the Tanakh and imaginatively expound a new and different meaning for it ─ that is, deliberately to depart from the clear meaning of the text.

But as for the gospels, the first in time is Mark, and Mark can largely be mapped onto the Tanakh along these lines. Thus much or all of the document can be explained in this manner, perhaps originating with the author of Mark, or else his church group.

When we get to Matthew, things get seriously imaginative in places eg

Matthew 's author requires Mary to have been a virgin because the LXX in translating Isaiah 7:14 had rendered Hebrew 'almah, young woman, as Greek parthenos, virgin;

He invented the unhistoric 'Taxation Census' story to get Jesus to be born in Bethlehem to “fulfill” Micah 5:2

He invented the unhistoric 'Massacre of the Innocents' story to get Jesus into Egypt to “fulfill” Hosea 11.1.

He absurdly sat Jesus across a foal and a donkey to ride into Jerusalem "to fulfill prophecy" (Matthew 21:2-5) in Zechariah 9.9.​

That's enough to give you the flavor.

Where is the evidence that's what they did ? And why ? Paul , is he a made up fictional character? He wrote most of the new testament, epistles . A Jew who would strongly disagree with you
.

 

[blü 2]

Where is the evidence that's what they did ? And why ? Paul , is he a made up fictional character? He wrote most of the new testament, epistles . A Jew who would strongly disagree with you .

So you assert there really was a Roman tax census that required citizens to register in their native village?

So you assert that the "Massacre of the Innocents" was an historical event"?

So you assert that Jesus entered Jerusalem astride a foal and a donkey?

Or do you accept that these are fictions whose purpose is to "fulfill" parts of the Tanakh imagined to be "messianic prophecies"?

 

[exchemist]

Some Catholics will possibly be Christians in spite of them attending a Catholic Church, inspite of the theology . But Catholicism is not biblical.

Biblical schmiblical.

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

Trouble is - Jesus was both humble and judgmental, forgiving and wrathful, tolerant
and intolerant. People adopt the parts of Jesus that suits them and that is not good.
In the Old Testament the Hebrews in Egypt took the male lamb and kept it in their
midst for three days till they bonded - then that lamb was to be eaten WHOLE, not
just the choice cuts. That's what is expected of us in reading of the Lamb of God -
partaking of all of Him.

Dear PruePhillip

I’m not certain I understand the relation between your comment and your example... Are you able to tell me?

I also don’t really see where Christ - who, as you know, is not in OT - can be said to be judgmental, wrathful, etc. Have you an example, so that I better understand how you mean...?


Humbly
Hermit

 

[John1.12]

Dear @Barry Johnson

If an interpretation of spiritual scripture encourages exclusion, separation, self-righteousness, intolerance, hatred, etc; one ought to assume that it is mistaken.

Christ depicts a perspective on being. He represents the concept of a life in humility and selfless service to [all] others. That - not a particular church or book - is said to be the only way to [unity in] God.

Any interpretation that promotes a way of life opposed to that ideal must be a misinterpretation.


Humbly
Hermit

Its Jesus himself who is exclusive . John 14 .6 6¶Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 8:24

“I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.”

Many dont like this because we have adopted this strange philosophy of relative truth . Your truth is true for you ,but my truth is true for me ,nonsense. By making Jesus claims the same as Muhammed s claims or the Hindu claims ect is to believe in contradictory things . You can't embrace the claims of Mohammed , Jospeh smith, Charles taze Russell , Ellen G White, Eckhart Tolle, Catholicism, Judaism, Buddhism, Seikism, Oprah Winfrey ect and say all truth claims are really teaching the same thing .

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

Its Jesus himself who is exclusive . John 14 .6 6¶Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 8:24

“I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.”

Many dont like this because we have adopted this strange philosophy of relative truth . Your truth is true for you ,but my truth is true for me ,nonsense. By making Jesus claims the same as Muhammed s claims or the Hindu claims ect is to believe in contradictory things . You can't embrace the claims of Mohammed , Jospeh smith, Charles taze Russell , Ellen G White, Eckhart Tolle, Catholicism, Judaism, Buddhism, Seikism, Oprah Winfrey ect and say all truth claims are really teaching the same thing .

Dear Barry Johnson

I shall attempt to illustrate to you why what you say about truth does not work. It’s a very trivial example, but hopefully it will make sense.

Once, when I was too busy to sort breakfast out (a long time ago now btw), I happened to say to my children “you cannot use the milk in the fridge for your porridge.”

When I returned that afternoon, the milk in the fridge was gone. And this is what I learned had happened:

At breakfast, my eldest, who had not been there when I said what I had said, asked the others why they had poured water on their porridge.

One said that they were not allowed milk. The other said that she did not know where we kept the warm milk but that it was not possible to use cold milk [from fridge] on warm porridge.

My eldest, said that non of that made sense and asked them where they’d got these ideas from! They both repeated exactly what I had said. Word for word.

“Ah” exclaimed my eldest, “that’s only because the milk’s gone off, sillies! I’ll pour it out later.”

They all knew the truth [what I had said] but they were all nonetheless wrong.

The real reason for me not wanting the little ones to get the milk from the fridge that morning was that the jug had been too full and too heavy.


Humbly
Hermit

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

@Barry Johnson

So, with what I wrote previously in mind, there are many ways of reading scripture and your claim to having the “objective” way, is just as true/false as anyone else’s.
We simply cannot know.

What I would say however, is that “ways” of reading quotes by Christ, that would lead you to live non-selflessly and/or opposed to being of service to [all] others, are quite possibly incorrect, for the very simple reason that if you were to live up them, you’d explicitly not be “following” Christ.


Humbly
Hermit

 

[John1.12]

Dear Barry Johnson

I shall attempt to illustrate to you why what you say about truth does not work. It’s a very trivial example, but hopefully it will make sense.

Once, when I was too busy to sort breakfast out (a long time ago now btw), I happened to say to my children “you cannot use the milk in the fridge for your porridge.”

When I returned that afternoon, the milk in the fridge was gone. And this is what I learned had happened:

At breakfast, my eldest, who had not been there when I said what I had said, asked the others why they had poured water on their porridge.

One said that they were not allowed milk. The other said that she did not know where we kept the warm milk but that it was not possible to use cold milk [from fridge] on warm porridge.

My eldest, said that non of that made sense and asked them where they’d got these ideas from! They both repeated exactly what I had said. Word for word.

“Ah” exclaimed my eldest, “that’s only because the milk’s gone off, sillies! I’ll pour it out later.”

They all knew the truth [what I had said] but they were all nonetheless wrong.

The real reason for me not wanting the little ones to get the milk from the fridge that morning was that the jug had been too full and too heavy.


Humbly
Hermit

I see Jesus saying in order to get to heaven it has to by one way ..One precise way . Not several ways. I like your point though .

 

[PruePhillip]

Dear PruePhillip

I’m not certain I understand the relation between your comment and your example... Are you able to tell me?

I also don’t really see where Christ - who, as you know, is not in OT - can be said to be judgmental, wrathful, etc. Have you an example, so that I better understand how you mean...?


Humbly
Hermit

There are multiple aspects to Christ. People are content to see Him as loving, giver to the poor,
tolerant, meek etc.. But that is not all there is to Jesus - he could be angry, condemning, lover
of rich people (too) and extremely intolerant of what he said was sinful behavior. He spoke of the
doom coming to Jerusalem, the casting out of the guest without a wedding garment and the
burning of those who rejected Him.

I do see Christ in the OT. He is the lamb slain from the foundation of the world. The One who
David, Zechariah, Isaiah, Moses, Jacob and many others spoke of - the coming Messiah who
would die for the sins of the world.

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

I see Jesus saying in order to get to heaven it has to by one way ..One precise way . Not several ways. I like your point though .

I agree with you there.

And how else can we today “follow” Jesus but by trying to live up to his example of humility, selflessness and service to [all] others?

Or do you mean to say that we’d be on our path to God if we “followed” Christ by going to church, reading the Bible, living arrogantly, self-absorbed and off the services of our fellow Man as well?


Humbly
Hermit

 

[John1.12]

I agree with you there.

And how else can we today “follow” Jesus but by trying to live up to his example of humility, selflessness and service to [all] others?

Or do you mean to say that we’d be on our path to God if we “followed” Christ by going to church, reading the Bible, living arrogantly, self-absorbed and off the services of our fellow Man as well?


Humbly
Hermit

In order for a person to be saved today ,he has to fulfil the prerequisite set by God for today . And that is to believe the Gospel. 1 cor 1.21 . Rom 10.9,10 . 1 cor 15 . 1-4 . Then a person recieves Jesus . John 1.12 and is sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption. Eph 1.13 ,Eph 4.30 .
You could ' Follow Jesus ' in the sense of trying to do as he did ect . lots of cults think they are doing this. But if a person does not receive Jesus then he is lost.

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

In order for a person to be saved today ,he has to fulfil the prerequisite set by God for today . And that is to believe the Gospel. 1 cor 1.21 . Rom 10.9,10 . 1 cor 15 . 1-4 . Then a person recieves Jesus . John 1.12 and is sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption. Eph 1.13 ,Eph 4.30 .
You could ' Follow Jesus ' in the sense of trying to do as he did ect . lots of cults think they are doing this. But if a person does not receive Jesus then he is lost.

Perhaps there ought be no question marks in the title of your OP, my friend. You seem quite certain of your conviction and hopefully that feels very good to you.

I’d just remind you to leave the judgement of others to God and not to yourself.


Humbly
Hermit


Humbly
Hermit

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

But that is not all there is to Jesus - he could be angry, condemning,

Angry, yes. In his humanity. Though not at what was done onto Him but at what was done onto others (and it is always harder to turn the other cheek at an injustice towards a fellow being, than it is to do so at an injustice towards oneself).

And He also distinguished between the sin and the sinner. That helps.

Condemning, not really. Not personally, at least. More like forewarning; in as much as to tell someone who was lost, what he would encounter, should he not find himself.

lover of rich people (too) and extremely intolerant of what he said was sinful behaviour.

With rich as with poor; worldly possessions are irrelevant to Christ.

Regarding intolerance; how did this intolerance express itself through Him?

Also, what was this intolerance of, do you recall? Injustice towards fellow beings...?

I do see Christ in the OT. He is the lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Sorry, I was thinking of Jesus when I wrote, but what you say here makes perfect sense PruePhillip.


Humbly
Hermit

 

[PruePhillip]

Angry, yes. In his humanity. Though not at what was done onto Him but at what was done onto others (and it is always harder to turn the other cheek at an injustice towards a fellow being, than it is to do so at an injustice towards oneself).

And He also distinguished between the sin and the sinner. That helps.

Condemning, not really. Not personally, at least. More like forewarning; in as much as to tell someone who was lost, what he would encounter, should he not find himself.




With rich as with poor; worldly possessions are irrelevant to Christ.

Regarding intolerance; how did this intolerance express itself through Him?

Also, what was this intolerance of, do you recall? Injustice towards fellow beings...?




Sorry, I was thinking of Jesus when I wrote, but what you say here makes perfect sense PruePhillip.


Humbly
Hermit

The intolerance of Jesus was towards 'sin' and 'foolishness.'
Essentially 'foolishness' is sin.
He defined what he meant by these by how He live and what He preached.
I can see that He would be hated by most Gentiles today as much as He
was hated by most Jews once.

 

[Trailblazer]

Jesus said in John 14.6
6¶Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

This and many other things Jesus said make it clear that all other religions , ways, paths , practices, ect are not the way ,the truth or the life .
Now this of course begs the question that the bible is true ect . But many seem to try make the bible or Jesus words fit other religions , beliefs and practices, as if its all just another way of coming to the same God .
Thoughts?

The reason that Jesus said that is because Jesus was the way, the truth, and the life during the Christian dispensation.

Dispensation

1. the divine ordering of the affairs of the world.
2. an appointment, arrangement, or favor, as by God.
3. a divinely appointed order or age:

e.g. the old Mosaic, or Jewish, dispensation; the new gospel, or Christian, dispensation.

Definition of dispensation | Dictionary.com

The Bible is true but it was written to apply to the Christian dispensation, not for all of time.
Jesus did not say "I am the only way, the only truth, and the only life: no man ever cometh unto the Father, but by me."

Don't you think that any other Prophets/Messengers of God ever said that they were "the way?"
Other religions and their Messengers are the way, the truth or the life during their religious dispensation.
For example, before Jesus appeared on earth, Moses was the way to God.
After Christianity, Muhammad was the way to God.
Now, in the present age, Baha'u'llah is the way to God.

 

[InChrist]

Jesus said in John 14.6
6¶Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

This and many other things Jesus said make it clear that all other religions , ways, paths , practices, ect are not the way ,the truth or the life .
Now this of course begs the question that the bible is true ect . But many seem to try make the bible or Jesus words fit other religions , beliefs and practices, as if its all just another way of coming to the same God .
Thoughts?
( Ps ,yes I am a Christian)

I agree with you and don’t think the biblical Jesus can be redefined or made to fit with other religions, which are all based on human effort and works to attempt being right with God or attain some ideal form of spirituality.
The scriptures are clear that Jesus is the prophesied Messiah ( Matthew 1:23; Luke 2:11).

According to the entire Gospel message, the only way to reach God is through His grace provided in Jesus Christ....

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16

For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus... 1 Timothy 2:5


“Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.” Acts 4:12

 

[InChrist]

I thought he said the only way to the Father is through him ?

Yes, He did.

 

[John1.12]

The reason that Jesus said that is because Jesus was the way, the truth, and the life during the Christian dispensation.

Dispensation

1. the divine ordering of the affairs of the world.
2. an appointment, arrangement, or favor, as by God.
3. a divinely appointed order or age:

e.g. the old Mosaic, or Jewish, dispensation; the new gospel, or Christian, dispensation.

Definition of dispensation | Dictionary.com

The Bible is true but it was written to apply to the Christian dispensation, not for all of time.
Jesus did not say "I am the only way, the only truth, and the only life: no man ever cometh unto the Father, but by me."

Don't you think that any other Prophets/Messengers of God ever said that they were "the way?"
Other religions and their Messengers are the way, the truth or the life during their religious dispensation.
For example, before Jesus appeared on earth, Moses was the way to God.
After Christianity, Muhammad was the way to God.
Now, in the present age, Baha'u'llah is the way to God.

John 14.6 is OT .

 

[InChrist]

The reason that Jesus said that is because Jesus was the way, the truth, and the life during the Christian dispensation.

Dispensation

1. the divine ordering of the affairs of the world.
2. an appointment, arrangement, or favor, as by God.
3. a divinely appointed order or age:

e.g. the old Mosaic, or Jewish, dispensation; the new gospel, or Christian, dispensation.

Definition of dispensation | Dictionary.com

The Bible is true but it was written to apply to the Christian dispensation, not for all of time.
Jesus did not say "I am the only way, the only truth, and the only life: no man ever cometh unto the Father, but by me."

Don't you think that any other Prophets/Messengers of God ever said that they were "the way?"
Other religions and their Messengers are the way, the truth or the life during their religious dispensation.
For example, before Jesus appeared on earth, Moses was the way to God.
After Christianity, Muhammad was the way to God.
Now, in the present age, Baha'u'llah is the way to God.

No, He said it because He is the only Savior for all humanity now and forever...


To God our Savior,
Who alone is wise,
Be glory and majesty,
Dominion and power,
Both now and forever.
Jude 1:25

 

[John1.12]

The reason that Jesus said that is because Jesus was the way, the truth, and the life during the Christian dispensation.

Dispensation

1. the divine ordering of the affairs of the world.
2. an appointment, arrangement, or favor, as by God.
3. a divinely appointed order or age:

e.g. the old Mosaic, or Jewish, dispensation; the new gospel, or Christian, dispensation.

Definition of dispensation | Dictionary.com

The Bible is true but it was written to apply to the Christian dispensation, not for all of time.
Jesus did not say "I am the only way, the only truth, and the only life: no man ever cometh unto the Father, but by me."

Don't you think that any other Prophets/Messengers of God ever said that they were "the way?"
Other religions and their Messengers are the way, the truth or the life during their religious dispensation.
For example, before Jesus appeared on earth, Moses was the way to God.
After Christianity, Muhammad was the way to God.
Now, in the present age, Baha'u'llah is the way to God.

When Jesus says ' I am the way ect , now he's said that he means just that . No other way. Your religion does not fit at all with the bible. Its completely separate and irrelevant to the bible. You can trust your religion if you want . But there is no saviour other than Jesus .