Republican involvement doesn't right a wrong.
Whether Obamacare should've existed or not is a separate issue.
I'm simply opposing the unnecessary hardship imposed upon some.
Do you think that it's acceptable?
Or would you change it too?
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Only Four GOP senators moral enough to reject AHCA??
- Thread starter icehorse
- Start date
I'm simply opposing the unnecessary hardship imposed upon some.
Do you think that it's acceptable?
Or would you change it too?
If I was in charge of creating the healthcare system it would be very different from both of these plans. But if I had been involved - back in 2009 - with trying to get *something* put into place, I probably would have taken the stance that the perfect is the enemy of the good.
So let me ask you, if you had to choose between the following two, which would you choose:
Plan A: 200 million are insured and 70 million are not
Plan B: 220 million are insured, and 50 million are not, and of those uninsured, 2 million lost their previous insurance?
This seems like a large version of the philosopher's trolley car dilemma, no?
More people could not even get health insurance prior to Obama Care than after. That is a fact.
Unless, the problem of preexisting conditions is addressed under the new system, and the cost distributed over the system and not burdened on those who have preexisting systems, the rates will increase for all.
The minimal tax penalty for those that do not assume their responsibility of buying health insurance, is not remotely a significant punishment.
You are neglecting the overwhelming elephant in the room that more people were uninsured before Obama Care than after, and the uninsured before and after represent an economic burden. The fact that there remains unresolved problems remains that both systems fail to offer a complete solution maintaining the profit motive by the insurance companies and many private health care facilities.
Another point you are missing is the Canadian system works relatively well and everyone is insured, despite problems, This is a similar system proposed by Truman many years ago,
There's insufficient info to judge the plans.
To keep things simple, I'm addressing the unacceptability of Obamacare.
Trump needs to sign something better which both parties can agree to.
Will that happen?
I don't know.
I say the best compromise would be to copy Canuckistan, with private
plans still being legal. That would give a safety net with market options...
....the most libertarian of the politically possible avenues.
I bet even Milton Friedman would find merit in it.
(He also proposed a guaranteed income for all....cuz it's so libertarian,
you know. This is because the citizen would choose how to spend the
money, rather than a government bureaucracy providing specific benefits.)
Seriously, I have no doubt that you and I could come up with a plan far better than either the ACA or the AHCA.
It's also a fact that Obmacare is crap for many people.
But dualing facts will get us nowhere because the choice of going
back or keeping Obamacare is unacceptable. I'm going beyond the
justification of keeping it....I'm looking for something better.
I'd enlist Mrs Revolt & co-workers to craft one.
They're in the business of anallyzing health care,
& designing/improving systems.
It seems you're the only one here who reads all my posts.
The others seem to think I'm defending the old system or
the Republicans' various plans. They're wrong.
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If someone can't afford health insurance, to say they're not assuming the responsibility of
buying it is an odd turn of phrase because it implies more choice than they actually have.
I oppose penalizing the poor & middle class for not buying something.
You're correct.
I'm purposely avoiding that (& many other issues) in order to address one.
And you're neglecting the point I addressed.
I specifically addressed Canuckistan's plan in post #25.
And I'm the one missing things?
Pbbbbttttt!
Total and utter BS about Obamacare being the cause. The cause is the structural mess in health care that causes US to pay twice and more compared to EVERY other developed nation. Obamacare just nibbled around the edges - it did not start addressing the problem.
Look at ANY of the other nation's systems. I kind of like the Swiss system which is more expensive than many others but gives more choice about coverage which I think is a fair trade off.
But the freedom-hating republicancare monster conceived in anti-democratic darkness in an attempt to give tax breaks to the rich while punishing women and the poor including no doubt much more suffering and death is more evidence that they don't care about what America should be.
But the freedom-hating republicancare monster conceived in anti-democratic darkness in an attempt to give tax breaks to the rich while punishing women and the poor including no doubt much more suffering and death is more evidence that they don't care about what America should be.
You cry "BS" but such harsh gainsaying should be backed up with support for your claims.
Obamcare imposes coverage requirements, has some customers subsidizing others.
And you say this wouldn't increase costs?
Explain how a customer who buys more coverage than they did before, & who also
subsidizes other customers would not face increased costs?
Over here in the real world, I know many who faced massive increases when
Obamacare went into effect...increases in excess of prior inflation. I'd call your
post "BS", but I'm a better behaved animal.
Is your subsequent post directed at me or someone else?
A few 4letter words in this but it's the truth
Thanx for the warning.
If they need to swear, it's a signal that it won't be worth my time.
My problem with Obamacare is that it simply gave validation to the policies and practices of the same businesses which caused this structural mess in health care in the first place. It didn't address the real problem because its proponents didn't want to address the problem. They just wanted to make more money for the insurance and pharmaceutical companies who have been gouging people for decades.
More information is available for the Draconian healthcare bill than you apparently are willing to admit.
Your optimism is naive to expect the Republicans to come up with a comprehensive health care bill. First, any move to compromise with Democrats is off the table.
No need to bother with the sarcasm of mythical Canuckistan. It would be simply effective to establish a Canadian model for national uniform basic health care.
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That is a good point. I am curious how the new, shiny AHCA fixes it. It doesn't seem to. I would much rather the powers at be go back to the drawing board and take their time. This feels rushed and it makes me nervous.
Daemon Sophic
Avatar in flux
So the Republicans have finally finished their crafting of our futures in secret closed door dealings.
Released Yesterday.
They are of course lying that the ACA was even less transparent, and was quickly forced down everyone's throats. But that, along with cronyism and tax cuts for the aristocratic elites while shivving the middle class is what all informed and sane people have expected from them.
The CBO will try to quickly look it over prior to senate voting next week.
Good luck to the CBO.....because the republicans hold our lives in the balance.
Released Yesterday.
They are of course lying that the ACA was even less transparent, and was quickly forced down everyone's throats. But that, along with cronyism and tax cuts for the aristocratic elites while shivving the middle class is what all informed and sane people have expected from them.
The CBO will try to quickly look it over prior to senate voting next week.
Good luck to the CBO.....because the republicans hold our lives in the balance.
Geeze Louise.....someone got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning.
I'm not refusing to admit anything...just not addressing the Trumpocare plan.
You're doing it again.
I'm not at all optimistic that a plan I'd favor will emerge.
(That would only happen if Trump put @icehorse & me in charge.)
The best I can hope for is something better than Obamacare.
It's wait & see about that.
Sarcasm?
You seem bent on arguing rather than understand what I'm saying.
Canuckistan's system is not mythical.....it is a real & functioning health care system.
I know wherefrom I speak, having used it.
And esteemed fellow poster @Wirey is benefitting from that at the moment.
(He keeps growing new body parts which humans should not grow.)
I'm advocating for a similar system.
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For mental health reasons, I recommend doing what I do....
Avoid having any expectations that it will be better or worse.
Trumpocare is just something to be evaluated when the dust settles, & we know what it is.
(Btw, I don't like that unqualified politicians are the ones drafting it.)
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