Only Four GOP senators moral enough to reject AHCA??

[icehorse]

Wow! I cannot believe that this draconian, horrible bill could be close to passing. Their constituents don't want this. It breaks long standing promises that the Feds have made to its citizens. It's cruel and misogynistic. It further inflates income inequality. And on and on...

And MOST GOP senators are going to follow party lines? This is positively depraved.

 

[Revoltingest]

Wow! I cannot believe that this draconian, horrible bill could be close to passing. Their constituents don't want this. It breaks long standing promises that the Feds have made to its citizens. It's cruel and misogynistic. It further inflates income inequality. And on and on...

And MOST GOP senators are going to follow party lines? This is positively depraved.

What do you dislike about it?


Edit:
Thanx for the frubal, but I was actually wondering about specific objections to Trumpocare.
Since Obamacare was also arguably cruel, there must be differences in cruelties.

 

[icehorse]

What do you dislike about it?

Edit:
Thanx for the frubal, but I was actually wondering about specific objections to Trumpocare.
Since Obamacare was also arguably cruel, there must be differences in cruelties.

Well my numbers might not be precise, but under ACA about 20 million gained coverage, and under the AHCA about 24 million will lose coverage. Next , HUGE cuts to medicaid so that millionaires and billionaires can get tax breaks. Slashes to Planned Parenthood. And as I understand it, costs don't go down for anyone.

 

[Revoltingest]

Well my numbers might not be precise, but under ACA about 20 million gained coverage, and under the AHCA about 24 million will lose coverage. Next , HUGE cuts to medicaid so that millionaires and billionaires can get tax breaks. Slashes to Planned Parenthood. And as I understand it, costs don't go down for anyone.

For those who end up paying tax penalties for not being able to afford Obamacare, the cost would go down.

 

[shunyadragon]

The reason these four Republican senators did not reject the new proposal for wealthy health care Bill is not for moral reasons.

They wanted to completely trash the previous Obama Health Bill and send everybody out in the cold but the reach with no affordable health care for the middle class nor the poor. Medicare would be secured on the Barbecue spit.

The middle class and the poor are not capable of tax credits. It was well documented that a income of $42,000 would pay the full bill and the rich would get tax breaks.

 

[icehorse]

For those who end up paying tax penalties for not being able to afford Obamacare, the cost would go down.

Weren't those penalties really small?

Now I'm not saying the ACA was perfect, far from it. But it seemed to me to be a step in the right direction.

 

[Revoltingest]

Weren't those penalties really small?
Now I'm not saying the ACA was perfect, far from it. But it seemed to me to be a step in the right direction.

I don't know how much the penalties are, or how many people are affected.
But Obama passed a law which took away health insurance from some, &
then financially penalized them for this. Talk about moral.....that is the opposite.

 

[icehorse]

I don't know how much the penalties are, or how many people are affected.
But Obama passed a law which took away health insurance from some, &
then financially penalized them for this. Talk about moral.....that is the opposite.

Wait, wasn't there a huge net increase in the number of people covered?

 

[shunyadragon]

I don't know how much the penalties are, or how many people are affected.
But Obama passed a law which took away health insurance from some, &
then financially penalized them for this. Talk about moral.....that is the opposite.

Not really, the evidence is clear that those who do not buy health insurance cannot pay the bills for sudden critical illnesses, and this has impacted the cost benefit ratio of the medical care system, and yes not discounting free loaders, the lower middle class and lower class are left out in the cold.

Most definitely yes, more people were covered under Obama Care, which was the problem under the previous system where Emergency Rooms were the only available care unpaided responsibility of Health Care not offered under the old archaic system that favored the rich like the proposed Wealthy tax break proposed system.

 

[Revoltingest]

Wait, wasn't there a huge net increase in the number of people covered?

Yes.
But to intentionally prevent some from having health insurance, & then charge them penalties is still wrong.
This was in Obamacare.
They knew it.
They kept it anyway.

Is this evil acceptable because a small percentage of people are so punished?

 

[Revoltingest]

Not really, the evidence is clear that those who do not buy health insurance cannot pay the bills for sudden critical illnesses, and this has impacted the cost benefit ratio of the medical care system, and yes not discounting free loaders, the lower middle class and lower class are left out in the cold.

I must not have been clear.
Your post doesn't address mine.

 

[icehorse]

Yes.
But to intentionally prevent some from having health insurance, & then charge them penalties is still wrong.
This was in Obamacare.
They knew it.
They kept it anyway.

Is this evil acceptable because a small percentage of people are so punished?

I suspect that it is virtually impossible for any such sweeping legislation to not negatively impact a few. I think if that was the standard, no new federal laws could ever be passed.

 

[shunyadragon]

I must not have been clear.
Your post doesn't address mine.

Than you need to be clear and more specific.

 

[shunyadragon]

Yes.
But to intentionally prevent some from having health insurance, & then charge them penalties is still wrong.
This was in Obamacare.
They knew it.
They kept it anyway.

Is this evil acceptable because a small percentage of people are so punished?

Who is punished under the proposed system, who and of course who benifites????

 

[Revoltingest]

I suspect that it is virtually impossible for any such sweeping legislation to not negatively impact a few. I think if that was the standard, no new federal laws could ever be passed.

I don't believe that something so bad is necessary.
And once the deleterious effect became clear, the
Obamacare crew did nothing about it.
Simple fix.....
Ditch the penalties for anyone making less than
a certain level of income.....say....$150K/year.

I see no reasonable excuse for causing citizens such harm.

 

[Revoltingest]

Than you need to be clear and more specific.

Me use words best as I kan.
Looked over post....no better way obvious.

 

[Revoltingest]

Who is punished under the proposed system, who and of course who benifits????

At the moment, I'm addressing those punished, ie, those who lost health insurance because
of the massive price increase, & now must pay income tax penalties for not buying it.
There's no need to have that feature in Obamacare.

 

[shunyadragon]

At the moment, I'm addressing those punished, ie, those who lost health insurance because
of the massive price increase, & now must pay income tax penalties for not buying it.
There's no need to have that feature in Obamacare.

There is an important question your question does not address, nor 'bell the cat.' so to speck. Who and why is the price increase occurring now since the problem has existed prior to Obama Care.

There is the question of profit motive on the unreasonable increase in rates due to the requirement of insuring those with existing conditions.

Hint: This is the problem with all the proposed systems, Obama Care and the President proposed Republican plan.

Do you realize the major insurer in Canada is Blue Cross Blue Shield.

A significant part of the problem is the rate schedule used in the USA for Health Care facilities, which are not allowed in Canada. The profit motive for private health care facilities and insurance companies is the big, big problem and the elephant in the room.

 

[icehorse]

I don't believe that something so bad is necessary.
And once the deleterious effect became clear, the
Obamacare crew did nothing about it.
Simple fix.....
Ditch the penalties for anyone making less than
a certain level of income.....say....$150K/year.

I see no reasonable excuse for causing citizens such harm.

When the ACA was being negotiated, the GOP were able to make over 100 amendments. It was amazingly bi-partisan compared to the current situation.

Again, the ACA is far from perfect, but it took extensive negotiations and compromises to get it passed. Undoubtedly many problematic points had to be swallowed. As far as the penalties go, until Americans get over their knee-jerk reactions to ideas like single payer systems, then the basic premise of health insurance is that both the healthy and the sick have to contribute to the pool. When you're healthy it seems like a rip-off, but it's the only way to get the math to work. So some sort of penalty system has to be in place. AND as was mentioned earlier, we ALL pay for the healthcare that the uninsured get at ERs and so forth.

 

[Revoltingest]

There is an important question your question does not address, nor 'bell the cat.' so to speck. Who and why is the price increase occurring now since the problem has existed prior to Obama Care.

There is the question of profit motive on the unreasonable increase in rates due to the requirement of insuring those with existing conditions.

Hint: This is the problem with all the proposed systems, Obama Care and the President proposed Republican plan.

Do you realize the major insurer in Canada is Blue Cross Blue Shield.

A significant part of the problem is the rate schedule used in the USA for Health Care facilities, which are not allowed in Canada. The profit motive for private health care facilities and insurance companies is the big, big problem and the elephant in the room.

I'm not a Republican, so I don't see justification in that party's involvement in bad public policy.
An important thing which you didn't address....
The reasons for insurance being unavailable or too expensive are also directly due to Obamacare.

I sense that many are OK with Obamacare's punishment of a few, so long as more benefit.
I see no need to punish anyone.