One God

[MyM]

The reason they made a 3rd part of trinity, is to make ambiguous the Prophecy for Mohammad (s) who is an instance of the holy spirit and Elyas (a) was the holy spirit in the mean time between Isa (a) and Mohammad (s). The comforter/praised one (the later proper translation) would be too clear without confusing people with trinity.

Their confusion worked lool Their translations, actually I wouldn't even call it a translation, I would call it an evil intent to mislead and misguide the people into their submission by changing the doctrines. They wanted it that way, they succeeded until Mohammad was sent. He did clarify it but the damage that shayton has caused is sooo rampant in the Christiandom, it is very hard to make them understand.

 

[Link]

Their confusion worked lool Their translations, actually I wouldn't even call it a translation, I would call it an evil intent to mislead and misguide the people into their submission by changing the doctrines. They wanted it that way, they succeeded until Mohammad was sent. He did clarify it but the damage that shayton has caused is sooo rampant in the Christiandom, it is very hard to make them understand.

Salam brother, you might be interested in this thread:

Is the holy spirit and Mohammad (s) in the Gospels best understood by Shiite Islam? | Religious Forums

 

[MyM]

Salam brother, you might be interested in this thread:

Is the holy spirit and Mohammad (s) in the Gospels best understood by Shiite Islam? | Religious Forums

Walaykum assalaam,

Is ok I don't need to go there but thanks.

 

[Soapy]

One God.

 

[metis]

and who are the church to define what God's doctrine is.

That's not what this involves as we're dealing with interpretation, which all religions do.

 

[Soapy]

That's not what this involves as we're dealing with interpretation, which all religions do.

Who knows what ‘God’s Doctrine’ is?

The True Church, the Spiritual Church, does!

The physical church is corruptible - The Spiritual Church is incorruptible!

Jesus said that we must worship in Spirit and in Truth. And that worship is to take place NOT on the mountain as the Samaritans do, and NOT in Jerusalem as the Jews do…

This means that Worship, true worship, is not of a physical nature but in the heart and mind.

But there is nothing wrong with CORPORATE Worship in meetings, gatherings, and groups and reciting repeated CORPORATE prayers as a mass for unity.

Jesus also outlined that the corporate churches would all be corrupt in one way or another. He spoke of the seven churches of Asia Minor (which were not the only churches but they served as examples). In the examples Jesus shows how some churches will seek gold and silver, some will be Luke warm for God, some will allow the wrong people to lead the people, some will be rich in truth but let itself down in other ways…..

These earthly churches demonstrate exactly what we see now!

So, who aspires to worship in the Spiritual Church, which is the pure heart and venerable mind?

 

[metis]

The True Church, the Spiritual Church, does!

The physical church is corruptible - The Spiritual Church is incorruptible!

I see, so the Apostles were "corrupt" as well as was Jesus, because they formed the "physical church" that we still have with us today.

Also, just a reminder that the Apostles were certainly not perfect and, as a matter of fact, people who are "perfect" really wouldn't need a church. My Church teaches that what's in our hearts & mind is paramount to our faith, so I'm not really sure what churches you're referring to.

 

[Soapy]

I see, so the Apostles were "corrupt" as well as was Jesus, because they formed the "physical church" that we still have with us today.

Also, just a reminder that the Apostles were certainly not perfect and, as a matter of fact, people who are "perfect" really wouldn't need a church. My Church teaches that what's in our hearts & mind is paramount to our faith, so I'm not really sure what churches you're referring to.

From your response it is clear you don’t understand.

The TRUE CHURCH is in the hearts and minds of the TRUE BELIEVER.

It is clear from everything that Jesus shows in Revelation that the physical churches would become corrupt in different ways. There is little indication that it is all down to the church leaders - anyone who runs a system knows that corruption of one sort or another can come into the system NO MATTER HOW STRINGENT THE RULES ARE!

Who is going to say that the disciples were corrupt as a whole because Judas Iscariot was a thief???

 

[metis]

From your response it is clear you don’t understand.

The TRUE CHURCH is in the hearts and minds of the TRUE BELIEVER.

It is clear from everything that Jesus shows in Revelation that the physical churches would become corrupt in different ways. There is little indication that it is all down to the church leaders - anyone who runs a system knows that corruption of one sort or another can come into the system NO MATTER HOW STRINGENT THE RULES ARE!

Who is going to say that the disciples were corrupt as a whole because Judas Iscariot was a thief???

Are you "corrupt"? Yes or no?

Also, you really didn't answer my question, which is one reason why I normally pretty much ignore your posts.

 

[Soapy]

Are you "corrupt"? Yes or no?

Also, you really didn't answer my question, which is one reason why I normally pretty much ignore your posts.

You ignore my posts? Why?

You say I ignored your question …. What question did you ask me?

 

[Soapy]

Are you "corrupt"? Yes or no?

Also, you really didn't answer my question, which is one reason why I normally pretty much ignore your posts.

You ask if I am corrupt? What has that to do with anything?

All human beings are SINFUL in one way and in many ways. Is that what you mean by ‘Corrupt’?

Are you a Human Being?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Did he say I am God?

Did you actually read what I posted? In the context, He certainly did say He is God. Why else did the Jews try to stone Him to death? The opening verses of John make this clear. The Word is Christ Jesus.
Bible Gateway passage: John 1 - Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I expect you know the verses from John 8:1-59? He even calls himself the son of man. Just 1-27 is enough to testify that he is not speaking from himself. Jesus loved to speak in parables but that does not make him out to be God. He was telling them, look, if you knew who I am and the one who sent me...that is clearly meaning God the Creator and him as the messenger. He was created-all Allah has to do is say Be and it is. Jesus was a miracle given to Mary.
The bible is loaded with "sons of God" even firstborns so to say that only Jesus was the son of God is incomplete. There is even another begotten son in the Bible in the book of Psalms. : )

The Lord Jesus Christ has both a human and Divine nature. He is both God the Son and a Son of Adam. Don't you know basic Christian theology?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Lol, what version of the Bible are you reading? You can't even quote your own scriptures correctly. That is not what that verse said at all. Too funny. They were asking Him how He had seen Abraham, if He we're not even 50 years old. Then He replies with the famous statement "before Abraham was, I AM" (so as eternal God, He was around before Abraham existed). Why did you choose to totally make up what that passage is saying?

I guess it was destiny that I choose that verse to reply to MyM with, as you don't even know what it says, apparently. I didn't read any of your posts before replying. Honestly.

Also, there's not one example of the Jews trying to stone to death Messiah claimants, for simply believing they were the Messiah. There's been many of them throughout Jewish history, with varying levels of popularity. Usually after they totally failed to complete the prophecies, their followings dwindled and died out. No stoning happened or attempted. So you apparently made that part up, as well.

@Soapy are you going to address your glaring errors here or not?

 

[MyM]

The Lord Jesus Christ has both a human and Divine nature. He is both God the Son and a Son of Adam. Don't you know basic Christian theology?

In Islam, we believe Jesus as a mighty messenger of God and in that, he is able to perform miracles by God's permission as he said in the Bible he himself can do nothing but by the one who sent him. If you are speaking in terms of doing one's duty towards their creator, the term son of God is appropriate terminology back then. In Islam, it isn't to be taken literally. Jesus never claimed to be God though. Man did that. and Yes I do know Christian theology. I was once one as well.

 

[muhammad_isa]

The opening verses of John make this clear. The Word is Christ Jesus..

Yes, I wonder why it was necessary to include 4 Gospels in the Bible canon?
The Gospel of John has an agenda that the other 3 do not have.
I therefore conclude that the author of "John" promoted sectarian material of his own leanings.

Naturally, it wouldn't be considered sectarian by orthodox Christians, as the creed relies on that author's opinions, in order for it to be justified.

 

[Link]

@Soapy are you going to address your glaring errors here or not?

Just read what Isa (a) himself says, he says they are decontextualizing him. Maybe they didn't try to kill/stone other Messiahs because other Messiahs didn't have miracles and proofs like Jesus (a).

He showed them they were decontextualizing for sure. Just see the explanation of Isa (a). He is saying, don't you have in your passages this and that and you don't take it literally. Why are you then taking my words literally and not in context of what is in the previous scriptures of Prophets (a)?

Jews wanted an excuse to kill him, so made it as if he was claiming to be literally the son of God when that was not the case per Jesus (a) words himself as he explains to them. Read the verses after not just what Clergy tell you about it or apologetics. Think about it beyond what you are told.

 

[Soapy]

@Soapy are you going to address your glaring errors here or not?

Please bullet point my ‘Glaring Errors’ and I will address each one. Thank you.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

In Islam, we believe Jesus as a mighty messenger of God and in that, he is able to perform miracles by God's permission as he said in the Bible he himself can do nothing but by the one who sent him. If you are speaking in terms of doing one's duty towards their creator, the term son of God is appropriate terminology back then. In Islam, it isn't to be taken literally. Jesus never claimed to be God though. Man did that. and Yes I do know Christian theology. I was once one as well.

Yes, I wonder why it was necessary to include 4 Gospels in the Bible canon?
The Gospel of John has an agenda that the other 3 do not have.
I therefore conclude that the author of "John" promoted sectarian material of his own leanings.

Naturally, it wouldn't be considered sectarian by orthodox Christians, as the creed relies on that author's opinions, in order for it to be justified.

Please bullet point my ‘Glaring Errors’ and I will address each one. Thank you.

See, a waste of time. None of you want to address what the passage actually says.

 

[Soapy]

Soapy said: ↑
Please bullet point my ‘Glaring Errors’ and I will address each one. Thank you.

You replied:

See, a waste of time. None of you want to address what the passage actually says.

I asked you to bulletpoint the errors you want me to address.

Thank you.