I made the errors plain in my original post to you. I'm not repeating myself for you. I don't play games. Address it or not.
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One God
- Thread starter syo
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Soapy
Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
So you don’t really have anything after all.
Sad… I was looking forward to giving explanations and qualifying addressments.
But I guess you realise now that there was nothing for me to address and are withdrawing your facetious and egregious complaints.
Yeah, that's totally nothing at all. Are you trolling or what? Is there a reading error here of some type? You can only read posts in bullet points? That doesn't seem to be the issue as you're responding to posts that aren't bullet pointed.Lol, what version of the Bible are you reading? You can't even quote your own scriptures correctly. That is not what that verse said at all. Too funny.They were asking Him how He had seen Abraham, if He we're not even 50 years old. Then He replies with the famous statement "before Abraham was, I AM" (so as eternal God, He was around before Abraham existed). Why did you choose to totally make up what that passage is saying?
I guess it was destiny that I choose that verse to reply to MyM with, as you don't even know what it says, apparently. I didn't read any of your posts before replying. Honestly.
Also, there's not one example of the Jews trying to stone to death Messiah claimants, for simply believing they were the Messiah. There's been many of them throughout Jewish history, with varying levels of popularity. Usually after they totally failed to complete the prophecies, their followings dwindled and died out. No stoning happened or attempted. So you apparently made that part up, as well.
Soapy
Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
Who are you addressing your post to?
When did you and I engage in the aspects you quoted above?
And, in any case, what is it you are wanting to address in those quotes… please be explicit as I don’t see any bullet pointed elements.
I quoted you and included the posts you can reply to. I don't do bullet points and am not going to repeat myself.
Soapy
Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
Ah, didums!!!
Where did I write the things you say I wrote. You must know the post number. Why don’t you just quote the post?
You do actually seem extremely reticent for someone who claims to be so sure!!!
You can click the arrows on the post to go back in the thread, you know.
Soapy
Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
Are you referring to this post of yours?Lol, what version of the Bible are you reading? You can't even quote your own scriptures correctly. That is not what that verse said at all. Too funny.
I guess it was destiny that I choose that verse to reply to MyM with, as you don't even know what it says, apparently. I didn't read any of your posts before replying. Honestly.
Also, there's not one example of the Jews trying to stone to death Messiah claimants, for simply believing they were the Messiah. There's been many of them throughout Jewish history, with varying levels of popularity. Usually after they totally failed to complete the prophecies, their followings dwindled and died out. No stoning happened or attempted. So you apparently made that part up, as well.
I still don’t see what it is you want addressing…
‘50’ was the age considered by the Jews to be ‘Old’ enough to be an authority.
And the ‘saw Abraham’ is not a physical ‘seeing’. It means, ‘to know enough about’!
Jesus answered was that he was indeed greater than the patriarch that the Jews gets in highest regard.
The scriptures details the aspect that God put to Abraham as a promise that one if his descendants would be the promised messiah. And to qualify that he gave Abraham, in vision, a glimpse of the coming of the messiah and that indeed the messiah would be from Abraham’s descendant lineage …. ‘And Abraham was glad’.
So, Abraham knew that though God regarded him as great, the descendant messiah would be greater.
This term ‘Before’ is qualified by the story of John the Baptist who, though being YOUNGER than Jesus, nevertheless says that Jesus is BEFORE him.
Anyone reading the scriptures may have wondered why and what the point was of illustrating the fact that John the Baptist was six months older than Jesus. Even to know why it was necessary to know that John was Jesus’ cousin!!
Yes, it’s all linked.
Abraham was ‘Before’ in time to a relation, Jesus… but Jesus was ‘Before’ Abraham in power and authority.
John was ‘Before’ in time to a relation, Jesus… but Jesus was ‘Before’ John in power and authority.
Remember that the TRANSLATION terms used are down to the translators… and they were TRINITARIANS…. Trinitarians who were MADE TO TRY TO MAKE JESUS SEEM LIKE HE WAS ALMIGHTY THREE-PERSON GOD by the ROMAN CATHOLIC AUTHORITIES.
In fact, the translation of ‘Before Abraham, I Am’, doesn’t even make any sense!
‘I Am’ is NOT THE NAME OF ALMIGHTY GOD!!
‘I Am’ is NOT A NAME!!!
In further fact, the very next chapter illustrates a man born blind who was made to see, saying under questioning, ‘I Am’, yet no one even blinks an eye towards the idea that the man was saying that he was Almighty God!
And in addition, what kind of answer was it to Jews who demanded to know if Jesus was greater than Abraham that ‘I am’ was acceptable.
No, the Jews wanted to stone Jesus BECAUSE he said that he WAS GREATER THAN ABRAHAM. It’s as simple as that:
“This child thinks he is greater than our great blessed patriarch, Abraham. He is a lunatic… stone him for his audacity!!”
I always ask how, if Jesus was claiming that he was almighty God (and Trinitarians CLAIM elsewhere that the Jews BELIEVED Jesus was almighty God while denying this AT THE SAME TIME!) how would the Almighty God believing Jews want to stone him.
Point of order: Trinitarians claim that in the garden of Gethsemane, the people ‘fell to the ground’ when Jesus answered the crowd with, ‘I Am [He]’. They say here that the people KNEW that Jesus was almighty God ….. yet they took Jesus in chains to be tried and put to death.
And, after Jesus said he was the ‘Son of God’, the Jews were again wanting to stone him FOR CLAIMING TO BE GOD!!!
How??!!! They wanted to STONE GOD???
So which is it!!!? See, it is Trinitarians who CHOOSES at their appropriate moments to CLAIM Jesus is God or DENY Jesus is God dependent on what the scripture features.
Jesus, himself, at no point, or ever, claim to be almighty God.
And, by the way, ‘Son of God’ is not a PROCREATED OFFSPRING. It is a spiritual term meaning:
- ‘He who does the works of the Father’
- ‘He who is led by the spirit of the Father’
Consider the nonsense that ‘A son of God IS GOD’, as Trinitarians claim!! This is from the verse with the ADDITIONAL TEXT that claims that Jesus was MAKING HIMSELF EQUAL TO GOD by claiming that God was his Father.
((Is our English language so deficient that it cannot be understood that something (a) to be EQUAL to something (b) cannot be that SAME something (b). By necessity (a) CANNOT be (b)! Indeed, the fallacy would mean that Jesus WAS THE Father… which would be qualified by Jesus saying that ‘I and the Father are ONE’ … but Trinitarians deny that this is what they are claiming!))
Think about it,…, Have you got it yet????
Did the JEWS not claim that ‘GOD IS OUR FATHER’?
And didn’t Jesus say to some of the Jews that “You are sons of your Father…. He was a liar from the beginning” and that these Jews were “Doing the works of their ‘Father’…”
You know that this ‘Father’ is a reference to the fallen Angel who became to be known as SATAN. Are we meant to imagine that SATAN procreated these Jews??? Or that these Jews were EQUAL to the devilish master, Satan?
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MyM
Well-Known Member
See, a waste of time. None of you want to address what the passage actually says.
what do you want to know?
Oneness of God is a mathematical certainty and proves he exists.
He is too big to have anything beside or that any possible world exist without him since he includes all life in Himself. He is also one that he misses nothing in absence and hence is known that he definitely exists when his oneness and greatness and bigness is recalled.
This is part of how God proves himself by his own essence, merely recalling God, we see he can't but exist.
The ontological argument proves God and proves there is no divisions in him.
So if and let's say (I haven't found anything in Gospels that says trinity is true) Gospels says trinity is true in some passages. Then this would be false passages, that contradict our natured knowledge.
The Bible all over appeals to the knowledge of oneness of God to make a case for it to be from God.
However as far I know, there is no passage in the Gospels or Bible over all, that implies there is more than one God.
He is too big to have anything beside or that any possible world exist without him since he includes all life in Himself. He is also one that he misses nothing in absence and hence is known that he definitely exists when his oneness and greatness and bigness is recalled.
This is part of how God proves himself by his own essence, merely recalling God, we see he can't but exist.
The ontological argument proves God and proves there is no divisions in him.
So if and let's say (I haven't found anything in Gospels that says trinity is true) Gospels says trinity is true in some passages. Then this would be false passages, that contradict our natured knowledge.
The Bible all over appeals to the knowledge of oneness of God to make a case for it to be from God.
However as far I know, there is no passage in the Gospels or Bible over all, that implies there is more than one God.
Soapy
Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
Ummm… careful! I agree that the Jews believed in only one God ….. but….. OTHER religions and beliefs hung on there being MANY (typically Three) Gods.
The Greek of course believed in a multitude of Gods.
WE AS CHRISTIANS are to ‘believe in ONLY ONE GOD’ ….That’s the quote we should express.
Remember that even our One God, YHWH, said that he is ‘GOD OF ALL WHOM ARE CALLED GODS’.
And the apostle wrote: ‘Though there are many Gods [for other beliefs]…. For [our belief,] there is only one God….’
It is a false thing to say to someone of a different belief that THEY don’t have many Gods. We should only say that in OUR BELIEF there is only one God.
But if there is a debate concerning GOD OR GODS and it concerns the TRUE GOD(s) then it is fine to say that the scriptures of judaism and Christianity recognise only one God alone as creator, sustainer, and ruler: Father of all that exists.
This one God, who gave his name to Moses as ‘YHWH’, gave that name meaning ‘Always exists: Always was, always is, always will be: eternally the same: I Am’
Note though that ‘I Am’ is NOT A NAME!!!!! It is the MEANING of the name ‘Yhwh’. We do not go around using the MEANING of our name as part of discussion or debate. Imagine speaking about Peter (‘Cephas’, meaning ‘Stone’):
- ‘I’ve got a job for you new prisoners. You, what’s your name?’
- ‘Rock!’
- ‘Ok, Rock, move those stones from this quarry to the building site over there!’
No! Jesus said, ‘You are Peter, and upon this rock/stone I build my church!’
Jesus used the name and then referred to its meaning, ‘stone / rock’.
Or else, what should it mean that:
- ‘for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ’ (1 Cor 10:4)
(p.s. ‘Christ’ means ‘Messiah’ which means ‘The Anointed One’ … can you see where this is going if we keep misusing the meaning of the word with the NAME that it comes from?!)
Note that, according to trinity, PETER should be Jesus Christ by the above scriptures…. But even they are not drawn to the ridiculousness of such a supposition because it does not benefit their fallacious doctrine… in the same way they don’t say that Jesus is the Father yet the scriptures says of Jesus saying: ‘I and the Father are one’!!
Think about it: if the scriptures had Jesus saying: ‘I and God are one’ then Trinitarians would be falling over themselves to say that Jesus claims he was GOD.
MyM
Well-Known Member
Some love to mock, criticize and just try to be mean when we talk religion. I don't see why it has to sink to that.
Soapy
Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
That’s easy: they cannot compute their own belief against reality so they mock those of us who have a true belief that is proportionate and measurable.
It’s a Cain attempt to disqualify the truth and promote the lie: remember that Jesus said that this would happen - would he have lied to us?
Others would like to promote their own personal belief and set a ‘Church’ of their own and in their own image!!!
Sadly, many people race towards, are dragged, seduced, or foolishly indulge these profane ideologies.
Soapy
Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
You say God is three persons -
Which One of these three persons started the process?
Revelation states:
- “You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they were created and have their being.” (Rev 4:11)
I have three... how many persons am I?
Gen1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Col 1: 14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: 15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Can you imagine trying to stop God from existing? How would that go?
We can break the monotheist claim of "one god exists" into 2 sub-claims:
1. at least one god exists (which implies that gods in general are possible)
2. no more than one god exists (which either implies a mechanism to stop additional gods from existing... or no mechanism and it's just random chance that only one god exists)
What's your justification for #2? If another God like the one you believe in wanted to pop into existence the way yours did, what would stop him?
I've never heard a monotheist give a proper justification for why gods beyond the first one can't exist. It's got all the problems with "proving a negative" that hard atheism does, only the monotheists do it with one hand tied behind their back because all of the atheist arguments about why gods in general can't exist are off-limits to them.
muhammad_isa
Well-Known Member
What's "a god"?
G-d is not so much a "person" as a phenomena.
G-d is of infinite nature.
eg. every creature is apparently independent whilst alive
In reality, we are not independent. We all depend on each other.
Naturally, we can have as many gods as we want to dream up.
There is only one reality, however. One can claim that gods are like aliens from outer-space, but why should these aliens be eternal in nature?
Our observations of the physical universe is that it is finite.
lostwanderingsoul
Well-Known Member
Actually Genesis says that When God breathed life into Adam, he became a LIVIVG soul. Not that God added a soul. That lump of clay was a dead souls and became alive when God gave it life. The same word that in translated "soul" is also translated creature or animal or beast. So man's body IS his souls. Man has TWO parts body and spirit. Or you could say soul and soirit. Body and soul are the same thing.
101G
Well-Known Member
Correct on Revelation 4:11. for it is the "Lord" who created the old creation as well as the new to come, supportive scripture, Revelation 21:5 "And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful." the One who sits on the throne is the "Lord". now this, Isaiah 65:17 "For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind." and the I here is the "LORD", all caps. and to be sure that it is the "LORD", scripture, Isaiah 66:22 "For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain."
so clearly in the OT the "LORD" said that he, one person, will make the new heavens, and the new earth. and in Revelation 21:5, the "Lord" said he, one person will make the new heaven and the new earth. either this is the same one person, or the Bible is lying, and we know that the bible don't lie. so the only alternative is that the "LORD" is the "Lord" the same one person.
PICJAG, 101G.