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On Reincarnation

Discussion in 'Dharmic Religions DIR' started by SalixIncendium, Sep 9, 2018.

  1. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium सच्चितानन्द
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    Saṃsāra is a concept that is common to most dharmic philosophies and religions. Commonly, it is believed that we reincarnate into physical bodies in a cycle of Saṃsāra until we achieve liberation.

    My philosophy is that just as the jiva (the ego self) sleeps and dreams, each dream being analogical incarnation, the Ātman "dreams" each incarnation of the jiva in Maya.

    In a lucid dream, the jiva realizes s/he is dreaming within the dream, can control many aspects of the dream, and can wake up from the dream at any time one wishes. As I see it, this is not dissimilar from the relationship between the jiva and the Ātman, where once the jiva realizes s/he is in Maya, a "dream" of the Ātman, s/he, though meditation or a spontaneous mystical experience, can awaken from Maya, or control aspects of Maya.

    I think that the jiva who doesn't realize Maya, or awakens from Maya, remains in Saṃsāra until one realizes the jiva is not his/her true self, just as the jiva in a dream who doesn't realize s/he is dreaming remains in the dream. As I see it, Maya is an illusory "dream" of the Ātman. While we perceive a physical reality, this is an illusion of Maya, therefore, rather than being reincarnated into a physical body as we might think, we are simply starting a new "dream."

    Opinions? Thought? Scathing criticism?


    *I'm placing this in the Dharmic DIR with the presumption that this will remain a civilized discussion, but I wouldn't be opposed to moving this to Same Faith Debates if someone wishes to debate. If you do intend to debate, please drop me a PM and I'll move the thread.
     
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  2. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    Are we ever uncivilized in the hindu forum? Of course, there are conflicting views.
    Buddhist reincarnation is different, not transmigration of soul, because they do not believe in existence of a soul.
    Brahman never dreams. It has no apparatus to do so.
    Jiva dreams under the influence of 'maya'. Even if the person has realized, he/she may dream, because that is the normal activity of brain. The person surely will know what is what.
    In theist reincarnation, the person's 'atma' transmigrates to a new body. In scientific world it is only a chemical recycling and the constituents of the body will disperse over millions of things.
    Opinions, thoughts. :D
     
    #2 Aupmanyav, Sep 9, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2018
  3. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium सच्चितानन्द
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    Let's not ask questions for which we do not wish to hear the answer. ;)

    Yes, the Buddhist concept is anattā (non-Self), if memory serves.

    I wasn't implying that It does, hence the quotation marks around the word 'dream' in my OP. It does not dream, but I think It does experience.

    Not always. There are those that suffer from dream-reality disorder.

    Dream-reality confusion in borderline personality disorder: a theoretical analysis

    If I'm not mistaken, your views tend toward the latter?
     
  4. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    By my understanding, which some people confront with a passion, it is sort of the same in Buddhism... except that there is no Atman to speak of, and therefore no reincarnation.

    Rebirth involves a form of inheritance, but it does not preserve more than feeble hauntings of a sense of identity, if even that much.

    The goal in Buddhadharmma is to develop skillful means in that inheritance, not any specific sense of identity.

    It seems to me that it would involve some degree of realization of the Anatta. I may be wrong.

    Sounds about right.
     
  5. atanu

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  6. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    Again, it has no apparatus to experience. A realized person will never be confused. He would just dismiss a dream as the brain's downtime. I am not talking of people with personality disorders. Yeah, I always try to align my views with science. :D
     
  7. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium सच्चितानन्द
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    What is this apparatus that is a requisite for experience?
     
  8. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    To experience, the entity should have brain, eyes, ears, tongue and skin to feel the touch. Brahman has none of these. As perhaps you know, I take Brahman to be something like 'physical energy', a substrate which constitutes all things in the universe. Can heat, light, electricity, magnetism, gravity experience things in the human way? I do not anthropomorphize Brahman.
     
  9. Kirran

    Kirran
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    What is it you would like to discuss exactly, Salix? About the basis of reincarnation and how it fits into Vedanta?
     
  10. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium सच्चितानन्द
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    Nor do I. Nor do I take the position that experience cannot occur outside of the five senses. I believe this where our positions will remain in conflict as well as our conceptualizations of Brahman.
     
  11. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    A very common misunderstanding of reincarnation I have come across many times is that the personality/ego small self reincarnates. People will actually ask if they can give themselves their own inheritance. That's certainly not any dharmic understanding that I know of.
     
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  12. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium सच्चितानन्द
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    I'm curious to see if others whose views are dharmic might have similar views with regard to the concept of reincarnation as I do or how they may differ from mine.

    From what I've seen, dharmic views with regard to reincarnation can contrast, even within the same religion. I have a pretty good understanding of the consensus of the variations of the concept from religion to religion. I'm just looking for individual views. I'm not specifically looking for a Vedantic perspective.
     
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  13. atanu

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    The subtle body (sukshma sharira comprising prAna, ahankAra, manasa, buddhi, subtle senses and subtle motor functions) migrates. Gita says: prAna-Lord of the body migrates taking along all other necessary components.
     
  14. Kirran

    Kirran
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    Nisargadatta says basically your life is formed from your memory, habits and desires (which are based upon each other in that order) and that basically those habits and desires just continue. This sharp distinction between one life and the next isn't really there.
     
  15. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    Yes, we agree.
     
  16. ajay0

    ajay0 Well-Known Member

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    But this is the truth and what Advaita and Buddhism proclaims.

    It is the personality/ego/small self as you put it, that reincarnates, created out of egocentric impressions or vasanas created due to actions prompted by desires in the form of cravings and aversions, and which has a beginning and an end. When these vasanas or impressions are wiped out by meditation or spiritual practices, the ego dissolves.

    Advaita says that the dissolution of the ego reveals Brahman or pure consciousness , while Buddhism says that the ego dissolves into the void or nothingness or emptiness.

    Imho, Brahman is perceived as emptiness in Buddhism, though Advaitan and Buddhist teachers use the common term Awareness in their teachings.
     
  17. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    Then our understanding differs. The ego, small self, in my view contains gender, personality, etc. So you're saying we keep the same gender from life to life. Certainly not in my view.
     
  18. ajay0

    ajay0 Well-Known Member

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    It just contains impressions and nothing else. And these impressions determine gender, personality and so on.

    Speaking of gender, if the present life is that of a male, there is a 90% probability that the next reincarnation is that of a female. This is because most males are attracted to females and vice versa. Hence the dominant impression in the male and female would be that of the opposite sex, and this is what they turn out to be in the next life and so on.
     
  19. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    I actually no nothing about it at all, other that the intuitive hints I've had and the bit of direct experience with my own children. I'm just going by books, mainly those of my sampradaya. That little bit of book knowledge is waiting to be confirmed by direct experience from mystical states. In the meantime, I'm happy to note there are differing interpretations, and go about trying to earn some punya. I'll leave it to others who feel they can speak with authority to do so.

    Aum Namasivaya
     
  20. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium सच्चितानन्द
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    Can you clarify for me what you are saying here? What is it that you are saying migrates from one incarnation to the next? I perceive the personality/ego/small self to be contained within the jiva. Others find these contained withing the jivatman (a concept that really does not exist in my views).

    For me, it is I (that which is aware) that reincarnates, not the jiva.
     
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