Obama would make talking about guns a CRIME.

[metis]

I can't own a gun.

I can but don't, and if I had owned a gun my son would be dead as he twice tried to commit suicide in his teens by cutting his wrists (he suffers from bipolar disorder, and is now in his 40's).

 

[Paranoid Android]

I can but don't, and if I had owned a gun my son would be dead as he twice tried to commit suicide in his teens by cutting his wrists (he suffers from bipolar disorder, and is now in his 40's).

Ah. Your one of us. You don't have to worry.

 

[Wirey]

Or the "snowball effect". Double yawn. Unless one likes snow-balling.

Hey! To we snowmen that is some racist crap!

 

[Cardboard]

I wonder if anyone will actually state reason why the 2nd amendment was even written. Just recently I emptied hospital blood bank of O neg a kid being shot over 2 dollar...yes 2 dollars !!, so I know what improperly used hand guns can do. But the reason for the right to have firearms does not elude me it is staring me in the face.. If anyone thinks that governments, any of them actually have your best interest in mind over their own self-interest, you are not looking at facts and you are lying to yourselves.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

I wonder if anyone will actually state reason why the 2nd amendment was even written. Just recently I emptied hospital blood bank of O neg a kid being shot over 2 dollar...yes 2 dollars !!, so I know what improperly used hand guns can do. But the reason for the right to have firearms does not elude me it is staring me in the face.. If anyone thinks that governments, any of them actually have your best interest in mind over their own self-interest, you are not looking at facts and you are lying to yourselves.

Well they just overthrew a massive government and the logic is that they may need to do it again. They didn't actually trust themselves to make an effective enough system to last forever.

 

[metis]

I wonder if anyone will actually state reason why the 2nd amendment was even written. Just recently I emptied hospital blood bank of O neg a kid being shot over 2 dollar...yes 2 dollars !!, so I know what improperly used hand guns can do. But the reason for the right to have firearms does not elude me it is staring me in the face.. If anyone thinks that governments, any of them actually have your best interest in mind over their own self-interest, you are not looking at facts and you are lying to yourselves.

Firearms sales are big money here in the States. As far as the Second Amendment is concerned, we should remember that the most sophisticated gun back then was a front-loading musket, if my memory is correct.

IMO, it is literally insane to allow so many people to have semi-automatics and even some guns that can be converted to full automatics being legal, and many states do not enforce background checks. My father used to belong to the NRA, but when he went to a gun show down in the Miami area about 30 years ago and saw what was available, he ripped up his NRA membership card, sent it in the mail to the NRA headquarters, and literally told them what they could do with it as a cure for constipation.

 

[Paranoid Android]

Firearms sales are big money here in the States. As far as the Second Amendment is concerned, we should remember that the most sophisticated gun back then was a front-loading musket, if my memory is correct.

IMO, it is literally insane to allow so many people to have semi-automatics and even some guns that can be converted to full automatics being legal, and many states do not enforce background checks. My father used to belong to the NRA, but when he went to a gun show down in the Miami area about 30 years ago and saw what was available, he ripped up his NRA membership card, sent it in the mail to the NRA headquarters, and literally told them what they could do with it as a cure for constipation.

Yeah. As a principle, I stand against oppression of the disabled, gays, women, African-Americans and other groups. In Dementheology, a Wisdom (like the Ten Commandments) we are told by God to resist evil, but to DO NO VIOLENCE.Even if that means they kill us.

 

[Cardboard]

Firearms sales are big money here in the States. As far as the Second Amendment is concerned, we should remember that the most sophisticated gun back then was a front-loading musket, if my memory is correct. .

I do apologize, but that makes no sense to me, if you placed the meaning of any amendment as static, defined by the times technology then almost none of the amendments made at that time could be applicable at all today. And I am sure my musket would be quite affective in thwarting any out of control tyrannical government.

But they did have cannons, so by your definition I can have cannon? You have to have a license to own cannon where I live now; I guess that should be covered by the second amendment?

 

[Cardboard]

Well they just overthrew a massive government and the logic is that they may need to do it again. They didn't actually trust themselves to make an effective enough system to last forever.

Very true, I don’t really think 200 years is “forever” actually quite young as far as nations go, but I do see what you are saying.

 

[metis]

I do apologize, but that makes no sense to me, if you placed the meaning of any amendment as static, defined by the times technology then almost none of the amendments made at that time could be applicable at all today. And I am sure my musket would be quite affective in thwarting any out of control tyrannical government.

No, I didn't apply that the Amendments, including the 2nd, are static, but simply that the weapons we now see present problems that didn't exist on anywhere near the same scale over 200 years ago. My guess is that if the founding fathers could see what's happening today with all the guns and types of guns available, they'd slap us silly and say "What the hell were you thinking!".

Also, let me just mention that I am not trying to get all guns banned by any stretch of the imagination. As far as overthrowing the U.S. government is concerned, I think you might run into difficulty when you confront an Abrams tank with your handgun or rifle. You might want to Google "How to remove tread tracks from my head".

But they did have cannons, so by your definition I can have cannon? You have to have a license to own cannon where I live now; I guess that should be covered by the second amendment?

The SCOTUS has weighed in on this since it has never been viewed that the amendments are absolutes. We have banned many types of guns over the years in some states and the federal government, and the SCOTUS has upheld most of them,

 

[Cardboard]

No, I didn't apply that the Amendments, including the 2nd, are static, but simply that the weapons we now see present problems that didn't exist on anywhere near the same scale over 200 years ago. My guess is that if the founding fathers could see what's happening today with all the guns and types of guns available, they'd slap us silly and say "What the hell were you thinking!".,

No I have to disagree, I would think that our founding fathers were smart enough to know that the technology of firearms would eventually progress as many things did in that day, no they could not foresee exactly the type of firearms we would have today, But that the true spirit of the second amendment is and always should be that we must have a well-armed public with the ability to protect ourselves from a possible tyrannical government. Needless to say is was exactly what they just went through.

 

[Cardboard]

Also, let me just mention that I am not trying to get all guns banned by any stretch of the imagination. As far as overthrowing the U.S. government is concerned, I think you might run into difficulty when you confront an Abrams tank with your handgun or rifle. You might want to Google "How to remove tread tracks from my head". ,

I don't need to look it up , I was a loader , so there would be many like me retired and active that would not stand for such, once they see what is really going on.

 

[Paranoid Android]

I don't need to look it up , I was a loader , so there would be many like me retired and active that would not stand for such, once they see what is really going on.

I am against guns.

One of the Wisdom, a set of Ten Commandmets, commands us to resist evil, but to do no harm . I can raise my voice, I can protest but I msu never select the option to kill. Yes, that puts me at a deficit, but the only way we can change the Norms is by passively resisting. I am commanded to resist, even if my resistance should mean my death. It is more important that we win over the Norms, than we fight them. I offer them everything I have: my blood, my flesh and my life.
It is my hope that God will see fit to defeat there hatred and bigotry, that they listen to God and stop harming God's chosen people.

 

[metis]

No I have to disagree, I would think that our founding fathers were smart enough to know that the technology of firearms would eventually progress as many things did in that day, no they could not foresee exactly the type of firearms we would have today, But that the true spirit of the second amendment is and always should be that we must have a well-armed public with the ability to protect ourselves from a possible tyrannical government. Needless to say is was exactly what they just went through.

I have no doubt that they had that in mind when they wrote their papers and made there decisions, but the conditions that we have a quite different in many respects. Again, let me repeat, I am not advocating the disarming of the American public, but it seems to me you think I am.

We are experiencing roughly 30,000+ gun deaths per year in this country, which is many times higher than what's found in western Europe or Canada per 100,000, so if the proliferation of guns here is supposedly making us "friendlier", to use the NRA's expression, then why isn't it working? So, if the FF were still here, seeing what we're allowing to be sold on the streets both legally and illegally, I would have to think that they would be appalled at our stupidity. One doesn't need an AR-15 to go deer hunting with, and when the police complain that they are out-armed, something is seriously wrong with what we're doing.

But then there's the "black- helicopter" people, ...

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Very true, I don’t really think 200 years is “forever” actually quite young as far as nations go, but I do see what you are saying.

They didn't really expect to last 50 years I don't think. In fact they didn't original. they had to dismantle everything they had worked on and re-do it because the first few years were a disaster. Our government beta-test was a pretty horrid failure.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I do apologize, but that makes no sense to me, if you placed the meaning of any amendment as static, defined by the times technology then almost none of the amendments made at that time could be applicable at all today. And I am sure my musket would be quite affective in thwarting any out of control tyrannical government.

In this case, it is very relative to the discussion. Back then when the second was penned, not only was the intent not for individuals but so militias could be formed, it was impossible to spray bullets back then and shoot multiple bullets in a second. You fired once, and had a lengthy reload time. Today many guns will fire as fast as you can squeeze the trigger, and some can fire hundreds of bullets of minutes just by holding the trigger. Muskets were also not very accurate. You didn't have things like the M-16 or AK-47 that have an effective kill range of hundreds of yards.
It's also relative because this "guns for all" idea, the idea that the second protects the rights of the individual to own and openly carry guns, seems to be a modern interpretation. In terms of guns, we have more of them than the "wild west" days, and we're more adamant about displaying and using them than they were back then.

 

[Wirey]

I am against guns.

One of the Wisdom, a set of Ten Commandmets, commands us to resist evil, but to do no harm . I can raise my voice, I can protest but I msu never select the option to kill. Yes, that puts me at a deficit, but the only way we can change the Norms is by passively resisting. I am commanded to resist, even if my resistance should mean my death. It is more important that we win over the Norms, than we fight them. I offer them everything I have: my blood, my flesh and my life.
It is my hope that God will see fit to defeat there hatred and bigotry, that they listen to God and stop harming God's chosen people.

God hasn't done squat yet, so let's keep the Marines for a while. Just to be on the safe side.

 

[Paranoid Android]

God hasn't done squat yet, so let's keep the Marines for a while. Just to be on the safe side.

The main purpose is to offer Norms a choice: Change or kill us. We want respect, no derisive comments, full employmeny for our people, e.t.c . Until we get that, the problem is not over. We will protest and confront them, and if they choose, they can kill us.
Marines are fine.