non-eternal families

[michel]

I believe we reincarnate into a random (or maybe not so random) body. Maybe we recognize our family members in different bodies. I don't know, really.

I wish this wouldn't happen to me.........I see a thread where reincarnation is mentioned, and feel myself 'drawn'..........

I used to believe (and I guess part of me still does) that we recognise people from past incarnations. Ever met the most unlikely person and felt some great 'pull' ? I have; I've looked at it logically, was I attracted sexually ?No, intellectually ? No......no reason that I could fathom...... I still see it as a possibility.

 

[Katzpur]

Baha'is take marriage very seriously, as they believe it is intended to be a spiritual relationship which will last for eternity.

As I've said many times before, if I were not LDS, I'd be Baha'i.

 

[Katzpur]

One of the things I was always ill at ease with the Church in my Mormon days was the idea of "eternal familes" and the fact that you needed to go get a specal ceremony done to "seal" your family for eternity...otherwise, no dice you got broken up and wouldn't be a family anymore.

It's totally logical to me. For a marriage to extend beyond the grave, it seems to me that it would have to have been performed by someone who was acting under God's authority. How could someone without such authority even presume to be able to make such a promise? For crying out loud, a judge can marry a couple. Since when do elected officials have the authority that extends beyond this life?

Naturally as a child of a broken home I got told quite often that since I couldn't be sealed to my mother in the temple that our family wasn't going to last (not that we tecnically had a 'family' since my mother didn't have a husband)... better marry a nice mormon man and pay the money to marry in the temple then I can get that eternal family thing... my mom and I could still be friends though.

Well, it's too bad you only got half of the story. As far as "paying the money to marry in the temple," that's a inaccurate and reather insulting way of putting it, it seems to me.

 

[Katzpur]

Yeah but, they're not men though are they. Humanity has men and women, angels aren't human. Also, you remember when man first set foot on the moon? Sure it was a man who did, but when someone says it they don't mean man as in male they mean man as in humankind.

In the bible, i reckon they use the words man and men to suggest the angels had humanoid form, not necessarily that they were male.

So angels have a human appearance except that they have no genitalia? :biglaugh: Uh... so what's there instead?

 

[Katzpur]

I like the concept of the LDS family.
However apart from the my belief that we return to God when we die, I am not at all sure what form that will take.
It may be, that we will remain wholly spirit in nature, or we may be adsorbed into God.

Terry,

I realize that you're a self-proclaimed "heretic," but doesn't the Church of England teach of a literal physical resurrection? And do you find anything in the Bible to back up the idea that we may remain wholly spirit in nature? I thought that the word "resurrection" itself pertained to the reuniting of the body and spirit.

 

[Katzpur]

I used to believe (and I guess part of me still does) that we recognise people from past incarnations.

Maybe you just sense that you knew them before this life...

which you may very well have done.

 

[painted wolf]

seems odd to me that God would make so many hoops to jump though to keep a family together.
As I said this is my Opinion... if God breaks familys up in Heaven for not being Mormon then so be it.

I was under the impression that you had to pay money in addition to 10% of your yearly income in order to get a temple marrage... if I am mistaken, I'm sorry, but I didn't hear otherwise in my 19 years as LDS. I didn't intend for this to be as insulting as it aparently was, I have issues with anyone charging money (state or church) for Marrage.

Family is more than a ceremony... or lack there of IMHO.

And I think that Halcyons point was that they could also be female in appearance... or simply have a form not unlike that of humanity.

wa:do

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Terry,

I realize that you're a self-proclaimed "heretic," but doesn't the Church of England teach of a literal physical resurrection? And do you find anything in the Bible to back up the idea that we may remain wholly spirit in nature? I thought that the word "resurrection" itself pertained to the reuniting of the body and spirit.

You are right anglicans do believe that we will rise again .
However many do not actually believe this teaching in the literal sense.

From the Nicene creed.

And I believe one holy catholic and apostolic Church. I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins;
and I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

As I don't believe God inhabits a World, so neither do I believe we will inhabit a world.
I realise you belive in a physical body in the after life and That God has a Body,
However that is where our beliefs part company.
It is not that God could not do these things, it is just that it seems totally unnecessary.
and therefor unlikely.
There is much I admire in your LDS beliefs, so not think too hard about these Ideas, they are as you say heretical and quite contary to the basis of LDS belief.

Terry___________________
Amen! Truly I say to you: Gather in my name. I am with you.

 

[BruceDLimber]

Yeah but, [angels are] not men, though; are they?

In fact, according to the Baha'i scriptures, that's exactly what angels are!

They're described as people who have overcome all earthly limitations and so are living a totally spiritual existence.

Thus they're men and women (so yes, they can have sex, too).

Best,

Bruce

 

[BruceDLimber]

Yeah but, they're not men though are they. Humanity has men and women, angels aren't human. Also, you remember when man first set foot on the moon? Sure it was a man who did, but when someone says it they don't mean man as in male they mean man as in humankind.

In the bible, i reckon they use the words man and men to suggest the angels had humanoid form, not necessarily that they were male.

BTW, you really need to use a different font for your screenname!

The blurry blue thing to the right of the picture is totally unreadable!

Thanks.

Bruce

 

[Katzpur]

seems odd to me that God would make so many hoops to jump though to keep a family together.
As I said this is my Opinion... if God breaks familys up in Heaven for not being Mormon then so be it.

Well, you've way, way oversimplified it.

I was under the impression that you had to pay money in addition to 10% of your yearly income in order to get a temple marrage... if I am mistaken, I'm sorry, but I didn't hear otherwise in my 19 years as LDS. I didn't intend for this to be as insulting as it aparently was, I have issues with anyone charging money (state or church) for Marrage.

Well, you'll be happy to know that you were wrong. Above obeying the law of tithing, you don't have to pay anything at all for a temple marriage -- not a penny.

Family is more than a ceremony... or lack there of IMHO.

I couldn't agree more.

And I think that Halcyons point was that they could also be female in appearance... or simply have a form not unlike that of humanity.

Sure, there's no reason why there couldn't be females angels. But to say that they have human form but a just missing a few important parts is really pretty silly.

 

[jeffrey]

In a Baptist church we used to go to, the Pastor got a lady there in tears when he told her that when in heaven, she would not know her husband. This train of thought comes from the parable about the 7 brothers, where the 1st one dies and takes on his brothers' wife. Happens again and again, so she ends up marrying all 7. Who's wife would she be in heaven? Jesus answered none of them. continued..

 

[jeffrey]

I am on the road, can't get to the exact quote, I have read it, but I get a different meaning. We might not be married to each other, but I believe we will know each other. No jelousy, just love.

 

[michel]

Family is more than a ceremony... or lack there of IMHO.

That is somrthing that has always bothered me (at the back of my mind); because of our very diverse roots, our family has always been 'fragmented'.

I would have loved to have been part of a big family, but never got to know any members being born in Africa. I feel as if I have missed out on a lot.

 

[jeffrey]

So angels have a human appearance except that they have no genitalia? :biglaugh: Uh... so what's there instead?

Maybe we still have them, but there for recreational use, not for breeding.

 

[jeffrey]

That is somrthing that has always bothered me.. our family has always been 'fragmented'.

I would have loved to have been part of a big family, but never got to know any members being born in Africa. I feel as if I have missed out on a lot.

But Michel, we would have until eternity to visit everyone, and I don't believe we would have the restrictions of travel we now have

 

[michel]

But Michel, we would have until eternity to visit everyone, and I don't believe we would have the restrictions of travel we now have

hehe, you know what I mean.......

 

[Katzpur]

You are right anglicans do believe that we will rise again .
However many do not actually believe this teaching in the literal sense.

I realise you belive in a physical body in the after life and That God has a Body,
However that is where our beliefs part company. It is not that God could not do these things, it is just that it seems totally unnecessary and therefor unlikely.

There is much I admire in your LDS beliefs, so not think too hard about these Ideas, they are as you say heretical and quite contary to the basis of LDS belief.

Hi, Terry.

I hope you didn't misunderstand me and think I was trying to put down your beliefs. I was just trying how they fit in with the Anglican Church's official beliefs and with what is said in the Bible. And I definitely used the word "heretic" to describe you only because you use that word to describe yourself.

I'm just curious -- and maybe you can help me out here -- how it is possible to believe that we will rise again but yet not believe in a literal resurrection. What I'm trying to say is that I don't understand what will rise again, if not the body. If you are saying that it is the spirit that will rise again, what do you believe happens to the spirit when it leaves the body at death? Does it die, too? Because if it didn't die, it couldn't very well rise again. I hope I'm making sense. Tell me if I'm not.

Kathryn

 

[Halcyon]

Sure, there's no reason why there couldn't be females angels. But to say that they have human form but a just missing a few important parts is really pretty silly.

Haven't you seen the movie Dogma katz?

That's not what i meant by the way. When you hear the expression Little Green Men, you think of aliens yes? But you realise that they aren't human, nor necessarily male.

That's what i meant, like a man, but not a man - and by man i mean human, not male. I think its a flaw with the English language, anyone know the Hebrew translation of the Sodom story?

 

[Katzpur]

Haven't you seen the movie Dogma katz?

No, what's it about? I've never even heard of it.

That's not what i meant by the way. When you hear the expression Little Green Men, you think of aliens yes? But you realise that they aren't human, nor necessarily male.

That's what i meant, like a man, but not a man - and by man i mean human, not male. I think its a flaw with the English language, anyone know the Hebrew translation of the Sodom story?

Hmmm. I'm still not quite sure I follow you. You did say, "We become like angels, without sexes." So do you believe that angels do or do not have a gender? If they don't, do they appear human in all other respects?