These types of discussion can be frustrating because it is impossible to discuss any of these topics and principles in a vacuum.
Nothing is isolated. Everything is connected. And prayer is a perfect example of that.
The more I try to focus just on prayer - the further my need grows to mention other things - because they are all connected.
For example - if someone has not done their due diligence in studying the Word of God - prayer may not do them much good - because they do not have an idea to Whom they are praying.
Like you said - it's like talking to the wall.
Also - if that person is not taking the opportunity to apply what they studied into their life - like being chaste for example - then prayer might not help them much either.
This being because God does not answer prayers just to sate our curiosity. He answers us when He knows that we will act on the answer we are given.
So - if we are not trying to come to know Him and are not trying to be like Him - prayer won't have as much of an effect.
I can remember one time when, as I was listening to all the prayer requests folks were making to the pastor, I thought to myself "Wow...everyone here is pretty messed up". Sadly, I don't think any of their problems were ever resolved (some got much, much worse).
This - to me - is an example of people who didn't take the opportunity to study the Word of God.
Besides particular ordinances being performed by holders of the Priesthood - God encourages us to pray to Him ourselves.
The idea that people would ask their pastor to pray on their behalf is like asking someone else to go to college in your stead. It does you no good. You learn nothing.
And also the idea that people think of prayer as nothing more than wish making - that is sad.
And that puts me in mind of another issue I had with Christianity and religion. As I was growing up and going through all the usual middle school social issues, whenever I would ask my parents, church leaders, or relatives how to deal with them, invariably the response was something like "Pray about it", or "Give it to God". I actually tried doing those things, very earnestly at times, but nothing ever came of it. So one day as I prayed in my bedroom, I'd basically had enough and said out loud to myself, "This is pointless. I'm just talking to a wall, and if anything is going to change I'm going to have to do it myself."
Well - you're not wrong. Many answers I have gotten through prayer have been along those lines.
God is not in the business of just giving us everything we need. If that were the case - then there would be no need for us to be here in mortality.
He almost always requires us to prove ourselves before He blesses us.
The times I believe I receive the most revelation is not when I'm praying - but when I'm either studying the scriptures or after I have been actively pondering on an idea for a time.
I believe that God wants us to use all that we have first. Exercise our minds, hearts and spirits - before He opens the gates of revelation.
Prayer can motivate us. Comfort us. Point us in the right direction - but He wants us to work out our salvation.
To this day I look back on that as one of the most important realizations I've ever had.
It is important - but there are some times when simply saying, "I don't know" is acceptable.
Like me and this case of Noah, the Ark and the Flood.
I meant more in terms of how sacrificing things to the gods is so common in religions. Do you think it's reasonable to conclude that Christianity's story is a variation on that theme?
I believe that the Atonement of the Lord Jesus Christ was revealed to Adam and Eve some time after their expulsion from the Garden.
This is why they and their children performed animal sacrifice - to be obedient to God's command to remember the Sacrifice of the Son of God.
This leads me to believe that this idea was passed down throughout all the generations of the Earth - yet not all of Adam's descendants were faithful - therefore many apostasies and false interpretations were had.
So - it is my belief - that the Christian concept of Sacrifice and the Atonement are the culmination of God's promises made to Adam and Eve - our first parents.
Yeah, that's pretty much a distinction without a difference to me. When you say it's not to appease the gods, but to "satisfy the demands of the law", given that it's God's law in the first place, I don't see much of a meaningful difference.
Oh ok - this is where I diverge from other Christians I guess.
I believe that the Law has existed as long has God has - they are both co-eternal - and that God is perfect because He operates according to the Law.
I believe that He is God because of His adherence to eternal Law - and His sustaining and honoring the Law.
Basically - He did not make the Law up - it is the Law and He is a perfect Being because He does not violate it.
If any of us wish to become more like Him - we would need to keep the Law - however - since none of us are perfect - we are going to violate the Law along the way.
This condemns us - however - if the punishments for violating the Law were placed upon a willing Being - one who never once violated the Law - then the Law's demand for justice could be appeased.
The Lord Jesus Christ did not suffer and die for Man because God demanded it - but because the Law demanded that all the punishments were issued for the violations.
And the best way he could come up with to accomplish this was to become human and commit suicide? Weird.
I don't think that's so weird.
If my son were guilty of a crime - even unto death - and there was a way for me to be sacrificed in his stead - I may do it.
Of course - that is not the same case as with the Lord Jesus Christ and us - but it is all my feeble mortal brain can contemplate right now.
Why is it impossible? God can do anything, right?
These types of questions always lead me to ask one in return,
"If you were made all-powerful - would you do what you
want to do or what you
don't want to do?"
God adheres to the Law perfectly - not because someone has a gun to His head - but because that is His nature. That is what He
wants to do.
And why? I believe it is because following the Law is the
only means by which eternal life and joy are given and accomplished.
God can
only forgive sin according to the Law - because that is who He is - He is a perfectly Lawful Being.
I don't think it's random either. I think they're all variations on the same general themes, which stem from fundamental traits and tendencies of humans, such as pattern recognition and anthropomorphism.
And I believe it is because we all share the same first parents - who taught their children the truth.
Do you understand how that's rather insulting to all the people who have sought out gods and/or divine guidance but got nothing? You're effectively telling them "Well, you just weren't sincere and humble enough...like I was".
I don't understand.
I mean - would it not be reasonable to assume that if two baseball players had the same coaches, same training regimen, same experiences, same work ethic, same workouts, same desires - that they would have similar outcomes when playing the game?
I understand that genetics may play a huge factor - but barring that?
I've had people try and pull that crap on me when I shared my experiences, and the first thing I ask is, "How exactly do you know what my mental state was at the time? How do you know how sincere or humble I was". Usually the reply is something like, since I didn't get anything out of it, then I couldn't have done it right, which I immediately point out as circular reasoning and assumes its own conclusion. Then I ask the person if they've ever tried to pray to Allah, and if they didn't hear or feel anything, well that just means they didn't do it right.....right?
Well - the Allah thing is kinda weird.
Conversations I have had with Muslims made it clear that they do not believe that Allah makes house calls like that. No personal revelation.
Anyways - I can understand where you are coming from - and also where the other people are coming from.
If they had experiences - then they would believe that anyone else could have them too.
And my experience tells me that if someone is not getting answers - then they are doing something wrong.
I understand it sounds unfair - but that is just my experience - and I have been on both sides of it - no one is perfect.
To go back to my baseball analogy - you wouldn't be upset with a pro player for telling you that you were swinging wrong - would you?
Now - don't get me wrong - I am not claiming to be a "pro" at any of this - but I do feel confident in sharing my experience.
No offense intended - but there will always be someone better than you at something - and if your first instinct is to be offended - doesn't that prove that you were not being humble?
And if them saying that was enough to knock you off your game - were you being sincere in your seeking?
If Peter were to come and tell me that I'm doing something wrong - which I know I am all the time - then I wouldn't be a humble person if I got offended by that and I wouldn't be a sincere seeker of truth if that made me give up.
Please understand that I did not mean to say any of this as a judgment - because I know where you are coming from and how much you probably don't want to hear it.
We all start at the same place.
But not everyone feels that, which makes it entirely unlike flipping a light switch.
Of course - not everyone lives in the same house.
At your place - every light switch may work - but my place might have a few that don't - it all depends on how well we take care of our homes and our affairs.
If you are a person who does not take care of your home and doesn't always pay your electric bill - then you may have find yourself flipping dead switches.
If you take the time to study God's Word - learn who He is - and try to live by His commands - then your home will be better taken care of - and you can be more confident flipping those switches.
Making a light come on by flipping a switch is nothing like that (it doesn't require one to be in an unspecified, vague state of mind to work).
But it does require a certain specific amount of resources, planning and preparedness.
What if you flip a light switch that you haven't connected to any wires yet? What if the power company turned off your power because you weren't paying?
There are things that you need to do to ensure that the lights come on when you flip the switch.
If you don't do those things - you're never gonna get any light.
None of us are entitled to revelation - just like none of us are entitled to electricity.
If you want the light - either physically or spiritually - there are things you need to do.