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Featured Noah's Ark Story Decoded

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by Brad Watson_Miami, Jul 18, 2017.

  1. Altfish

    Altfish Well-Known Member

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    No, not true.

    Supply peer reviewed papers/articles that have been critically reviewed by other scientists and found not to be flawed.
     
  2. DavidFirth

    DavidFirth Well-Known Member

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    Reviewed by scientists you approve of, no, that's not biased. Burp.
     
  3. Altfish

    Altfish Well-Known Member

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    No, just reviewed, let them be "Christian" scientists if you want but the paper review must be published in a recognised journal. You know, the type of journal that leads to advances in science, medical break throughs, new technology and the like.
     
  4. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    I take it you mean 'creation scientists'.

    They aren't real scientists as such, though it's possible some of them do real science from time to time.

    The website of the old Institute for Creation Research had an introductory page, from which I quote (my emphases) ─

    Tenets of Scientific Creationism​

    The physical universe of space, time, matter, and energy has not always existed, but was supernaturally created by a transcendent personal Creator who alone has existed from eternity.

    1. The phenomenon of biological life did not develop by natural processes from inanimate systems but was specially and supernaturally created by the Creator.

    2. Each of the major kinds of plants and animals was created functionally complete from the beginning and did not evolve from some other kind of organism. Changes in basic kinds since their first creation are limited to "horizontal" changes (variation) within the kinds, or "downward' changes (e.g., harmful mutations, extinctions).

    3. The first human beings did not evolve from an animal ancestry, but were specially created in fully human form from the start. Furthermore, the "spiritual" nature of man (self-image, moral consciousness, abstract reasoning, language, will, religious nature, etc.) is itself a supernaturally created entity distinct from mere biological life.

    4. The record of earth history, as preserved in the earth's crust, especially in the rocks and fossil deposits, is primarily a record of catastrophic intensities of natural processes, operating largely within uniform natural laws, rather than one of gradualism and relatively uniform process rates. There are many scientific evidences for a relatively recent creation of the earth and the universe, in addition to strong scientific evidence that most of the earth's fossiliferous sedimentary rocks were formed in an even more recent global hydraulic cataclysm.

    5. Processes today operate primarily within fixed natural laws and relatively uniform process rates but, since these were themselves originally created and are daily maintained by their Creator, there is always the possibility of miraculous intervention in these laws or processes by their Creator. Evidences for such intervention should be scrutinized critically, however, because there must be clear and adequate reason for any such action on the part of the Creator.

    6. The universe and life have somehow been impaired since the completion of creation, so that imperfections in structure, disease, aging, extinctions, and other such phenomena are the result of "negative" changes in properties and processes occurring in an originally-perfect created order.

    7. Since the universe and its primary components were created perfect for their purposes in the beginning by a competent and volitional Creator, and since the Creator does remain active in this now-decaying creation, there do exist ultimate purposes and meanings in the universe. Teleological considerations, therefore, are appropriate in scientific studies whenever they are consistent with the actual data of observation, and it is reasonable to assume that the creation presently awaits the consummation of the Creator's purpose.

    8. Although people are finite and scientific data concerning origins are always circumstantial and incomplete, the human mind (if open to the possibility of creation) is able to explore the manifestations of that Creator rationally and scientifically, and to reach an intelligent decision regarding one's place in the Creator's plan.
    ...
    ...
    4. The [books of the] Bible ... as originally and miraculously given, are infallible and completely authoritative on all matters with which they deal, free from error of any sort, scientific and historical as well as moral and theological.
    ...
    5. The Biblical record of primeval earth history in Genesis 1-11 is fully historical and perspicuous, including the creation and fall of man, the curse on the creation and its subjection to the bondage of decay, the promised Redeemer, the worldwide cataclysmic deluge in the days of Noah, the post-diluvian renewal of man's commission to subdue the earth (now augmented by the institution of human government) and the origin of nations and languages at the tower of Babel.​

    On another page was a note that articles submitted would not be published if they did not conform in all respects to these 'tenets'.

    So the situation of the 'creation scientist' could scarcely be more anti-scientific. They are instructed what the answers are, and required to imagine things to lead up to those answers; and those imaginings are the only things that will be published.

    The job of a real scientist would be to rigorously test each and every part of those tenets with an open and honest mind, to determine whether or not it was true, in the sense of being an accurate statement about reality, such that any other person applying the same test should get the same result.

    The view I've expressed isn't even controversial.
    .
     
    #64 blü 2, Jul 24, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2017
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  5. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Flood myths are found in roughly 2/3 of all societies worldwide but they really don't mesh with each other in the vast majority of cases. Why do these myths exist? Because flooding is quite common in most of those areas.

    The evidence suggest that the Noah's Ark myth is a reworking of the Babylonian Gilgamesh myth, altered to reflect traditional Jewish values and morals, especially since flooding was not problem in the land of Israel.

    Again, the importance of these myths is not whether they may be historically accurate but what is/are their message(s)? Whether an actual flood did or did not occur means nothing today, but what these myths teach about morals and values can mean a lot in today's world.
     
  6. Mestemia

    Mestemia Advocatus Diaboli
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    This post comes across as a lame excuse to not support your claim.

    One suspects that you have nothing new to present and do not want to be called out on it.
    Otherwise, you would have just presented a list of names.
     
  7. DavidFirth

    DavidFirth Well-Known Member

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    I doubt any of those will publish anything concerning YEC Creation Science due to their extreme prejudice against it.
     
  8. DavidFirth

    DavidFirth Well-Known Member

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    Try ICR. There are other sites, put your Google Search box to work.
     
  9. DavidFirth

    DavidFirth Well-Known Member

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    evidence of global flood - Google Search
     
  10. Mestemia

    Mestemia Advocatus Diaboli
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  11. DavidFirth

    DavidFirth Well-Known Member

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    What claim?
     
  12. Mestemia

    Mestemia Advocatus Diaboli
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    really?

     
  13. DavidFirth

    DavidFirth Well-Known Member

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    You don't believe that statement?
     
  14. Mestemia

    Mestemia Advocatus Diaboli
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    Your inability to present even a single name says quite a bit in itself.
     
  15. DavidFirth

    DavidFirth Well-Known Member

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    Dr. Andrew Snelling
    Dr. Kurt Wise

    Satisfied?
     
  16. cbullion

    cbullion Member

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    [​IMG]
    The Tale of Two Zodiacs
    Secrets of the Sphinx - precession of the equinoxes - Platonic year - Great Sphinx

    1. Fall Equinox = Pleiades Alignment with Taurus around August 11, 3113 Mayan Creation Date
    2. Fall Equinox = Constellation Leo when Jesus as Born around 7 B.C.
    3. Fall Equinox Today = September 21-23, 2017 about 33 Days of Movement

    When Jesus was born the Constellation Leo Equaled the Fall Equinox, it has moved 33 Days, and because of that God does not acknowledge the position because Jesus was not Born with the Fall Equinox in Virgo, it was in Leo (Jesus was Born with Constellation Leo in View by the Equinox not Virgo, that is a new law to give Virgo or 9/23 precedence, God invalidates). This Matches the Book of Acts Claim about the dismissal of the Jupiter and Virgo alignment of 9/23, God does not acknowledge 33 Days from 8/21 to 9/23 only 8/21 for Star Wormwoods 150 Days, Acts 19:35.

    1. Constellation Leo was Aligned with Vernal Equinox (spring) at the time of the Flood in 10,000 B.C.
    2. Constellation Leo was Aligned with the Fall Equinox at the time of Jesus Birth around 7 B.C.

    (God is introducing a new Law if God does not identify with Constellation Leo for the 153 Days of Star Wormwood, that is why God said, 2000 Years Ago that God would not give a 33 Day Warning that was the Intelligent Design God identified with in the Old Testament, God rebuked that position, it is no longer valid) (Furthermore, 42 Months from Flight 370 = Constellation Leo or 8/21, same as the Mayan Calendar which illustrates apart of this intelligent design, which goes from 12/21/2012 to 8/21/2017 in reverse of its creation date of 8/11/3113 to 12/20/2012)

    (3600 B.C. to 2600 B.C. you have Pleiades (In Taurus) Aligned with the Fall Equinox, now from the Exodus of Moses (Astrological Age of Taurus) to the present you have about 3600 Years, when God identifies with the Movement of Star Wormwood/Nibiru from the Pleiades to our Earth's Sun...............this is the behavior the Mayan Calendar is Reporting, one law with the Babylonian's 3600 Year Prophecy about the "Flood of Fire")

    [​IMG]

    (More Correct)

    LUKE 16:21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. (Constellation Leo the Dog)
    LUKE 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; (Pleiades/Orion/Sirius)

    https://astrosociety.org/edu/publications/tnl/45/globe3.html
    Ancient World Blog: Herschel Petroglyphs Monolith #2 Marks Stars at the Head of Scorpio Marking the Autumn Equinox ca. 3000 B.C.

    1. (Spring) Vernal Equinox of August 11-21, 3113 B.C. in the Pleiades (Mayan Creation Date) = 33 Degree Alignment with Pleiades/Orion/Sirius and the Celestial Equator.
    2. (Spring) Vernal Equinox rested in Constellation Leo in 10,000 B.C.

    Fall Equinox Actually rested in Constellation Leo on August 21 when Jesus was Born, today the Fall Equinox rests 33 Days later in 9/23, God specifically has identified with Constellation Leo or August 21: for the Great Flood of Noah, For the Creation of the Homosapien, and For the Events of Revelation's 5 Months. (Why is God going to change his pattern now when he has already said not to Virgo and Jupiter in Acts 19:35? Good Question, he won't).

    [​IMG]
    A
    Ancient World Blog: Herschel Petroglyphs Monolith #2 Marks Stars at the Head of Scorpio Marking the Autumn Equinox ca. 3000 B.C.

    JOB 9:9 Which maketh Arcturus, Orion, and Pleiades, and the chambers of the south.

    1. 33 Degrees for Pleiades/Orion/Sirius
    2. 33 Degrees for Arcturus (Bootes Nose of Sphinx) and Constellation Leo (or Leo and Pole Star Polaris)

    God has described "33 Degrees for 33 Days" in the Old Testament, God immediately rebukes this position in the New Testament, because God does not give a warning, and specifically with Star Wormwood. That is the unifier between the Flood of Noah and Today, NO WARNING, so it is 153 Days in August and not 8/21 to 9/23 for 33 Days (no more time, no seven years, no nothing) Love and Blessings:

    Spirit = Son of Man (Jesus) or Son of Man (Angels)
    Water = Gospel Law (multiple accounts) or Bible (single account)
    Blood = Earth or Science

    That is your failure to not identify with the Antichrist, the lifespan is limited, furthermore, Unarius and their 9/11/2001 + 16 Years to "Three Days of Darkness" they claimed came from an angel, really hit the mark...................secondarily you have 70 Years (Daniel 9:2) from Roswell UFO Incident, and 42 Months from Flight 370 (that is the buff for the Bible)....................Finally, you have resonances in the earth's sun and magnetic field, along with astrology and other branches of science like global warming, so you don't have an excuse to be dumb and blind but that is your pleasure)

    (You have less than 5 weeks to entertain your pleasure with the antichrist in violating his body, or, to challenge God's Word about opening up the portal to Noah's Ark, that your choice, as your time to kill genetic dan for the sign of divorce comes to a close along with your lives, you may change your decision in your final moments)
     
    #76 cbullion, Jul 24, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2017
  17. Altfish

    Altfish Well-Known Member

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    Nothing to do with it being junk science then.

    OK David, you live with your book, I'll embrace the modern world brought about by real science.
     
  18. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    Are you saying that there are creationist websites where creationists offer reasoned, evidence-based criticism of those 'tenets' I listed, reach a conclusion that the one under consideration is wrong, and are gracefully published and thanked?

    If so, googling hasn't discovered anything of the kind to me so please give me as many links as there are such sites.
     
  19. DavidFirth

    DavidFirth Well-Known Member

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    If you can't or won't find them for yourself, why should I bother? We'll just let you continue on in your fantasy world where no such site exists. Yeah, that makes you smile so we'll leave it at that.
     
  20. Altfish

    Altfish Well-Known Member

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    #blü 2
    You are wasting your time trying to discuss science with David Firth; he's beyond reason.
    It says it in his book, creation scientists say so, so it is correct. It doesn't matter that 99.999% of scientists disagree. End of.
     
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