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Noah and his Ark - Believe it or Not?

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by t3gah, Jan 11, 2005.

?
  1. Yes, I believe the story of the flood and Noah's Ark

    38 vote(s)
    33.0%
  2. No, I don't believe the story of the flood and Noah's Ark

    62 vote(s)
    53.9%
  3. I'm not sure

    7 vote(s)
    6.1%
  4. Who cares?!

    8 vote(s)
    7.0%
  1. t3gah

    t3gah Well-Known Member

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    "Jesus and the Flood"?

    Uhm, we're talking about Noah and the flood. Scriptural confirmation still doesn't confirm that the bible isn't a novel because this debate is over the validity of the account in the scriptures about Noah and the Flood. If the flood proves false, then Jesus being a fact is also false. The debate is to determine if the this one instance in the scriptures is "folklore".

    "Draw Comfort"?

    robtex is right. it's global genocide. let the world go crazy and then kill every one and every thing except 8 people and their 'animal companions'.

    all this in this article still doesn't tell any of us how God or Noah managed to get enough primary examples of each species into the ark to accomplish what we have today, which if I remember correctly is approximately 1.3 million species.

    maybe the birds that make up the majority of the known species were hanging out on top of the ark too. hrm.
     
  2. Melody

    Melody Well-Known Member

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    <<If the flood proves false, then Jesus being a fact is also false. >>

    I'm not sure how you made that leap of illogic unless you believe the Bible is divinely inspired.
     
  3. Pah

    Pah Uber all member

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    It is not really a question of what others believe in regard to biblical truths but more of a question of what fundementalists believe. If Noah is shown as the myth it is then that must question Genisus. If Genisus is questioned, orginal sin may be doubted from an earlier myth. If Adam and Eve are accepted as the myth they are, then there is a huge question of the purpose of Christ's power and reason for human salvation.

    When you attach literalness to every word of the Bible (which is circular in declaring it inspired) you are left with explaining the ridiculousness of Noah.

    I'm not anti-Bible - there are many truths contained therein that even this atheist can grasp and follow. But only on a level of the truths contained in myth. I can follow some of Christ's teaching without following Christ or even believing Jesus was historical. I respect those that believe but I do not join in that belief.

    The problem is believing the Bible is the literal word of God
     
  4. Melody

    Melody Well-Known Member

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    Ahh..ok...gotcha.

    Melody
     
  5. LittleNipper

    LittleNipper Well-Known Member

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    GOD is not a female. GOD is not a sexual being. GOD has one course of action and HE
    is letting you in on it if you are wise enough to listen. Jesus Christ who was God in the form of humanity---arrived as a male.
     
  6. LittleNipper

    LittleNipper Well-Known Member

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    2 PETER 3:3-7

    First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, SCOFFING and FOLLOWING THEIR OWN EVIL DESIRES. They will say, "Where is this 'coming' he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation."

    But they DELIBERATELY forget that long ago by GOD's word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and with water. By water ALSO the world OF THAT TIME was DELUGED and DESTROYED.

    By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for that day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
     
  7. Master Vigil

    Master Vigil Well-Known Member

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    Little Nipper, calm down. God is not a "he" either. Like you said, god is not a sexual being. You may believe that Jesus was god, but not all of us do. You should show more respect for those who are different than you. I would like to ask one thing though, how do you "know" what gods course of action was? The bible? How do you know it wasn't just a story? By what you have been taught? How do you know what you have been taught isn't a lie? The thing is Little Nipper, you don't know for sure. There is no unidisputed evidence that proves it to be so, so while you believe what you believe, allow the chance that you can be wrong. Open your mind, and perhaps be loving like jesus wants you to.
     
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  8. LittleNipper

    LittleNipper Well-Known Member

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    I have a problem with a "Druid" labeling my GOD in disrespect. If people want respect they must act accordingly. I know it was not a story because the Holy Spirit has laid that truth on my heart. I was open to GOD to take control of my life and the very first place HE started was with trusting HIS WORD. I have faith in my Salvation through Jesus the Christ. Jesus himself both quoted and fulfilled scripture. God is not wrong and the truth of the Bible is too astounding to presume to be made up and designed by mortal men on a lark. I am very secure in both my belief and my salvation. If you are too that is wonderful.
     
  9. Druidus

    Druidus Keeper of the Grove

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    And yet, you call him a he. What then, is right? Is she a he, or a she? Or neither, as you say? If it is neither, then perhaps "it" is the right word. It seems vaguely hypocritical to criticize me for calling your God a "she", because she is not a sexual being, while you yourself call her a "he". The truth is, it's about balance for me. Most people call her a "he", so I go ahead and call her a "she". "

    Whenever you are on the side of the majority, it's time to stop and think."

    -Benjamin Franklin (I believe)

    He cannot change his mind? Is he truly omnipotent then? How did he "repent" if he has only one course of action.

    How about this: I couldn't care less. She can do whatever she feels like, if she exists at all. Hold your opinion, I'll hold mine.

    Well, he had to come as something, and it seems logical that it would have been a male, due to the fact that women weren't very powerful. Next you'll be telling me that women are inferior. I think we need Ceridwen in here.

    Define your God for me. Make a list of all of her attributes.

    Excuse me? I don't see what disrespect there was. I merely stated an opinion, and indeed, I am right to do so. Do you have a problem with my faith?

    [] <----- A box. Break free of it.

    Indeed. I respect your faith (which once was mine), but you must understand that I can only interpret a faith the way I interpret it, not the way you do. What's right for some may not be right for others.

    How do you know it wasn't just heartburn? Or something else? Did it tell you that it was doing this? How do you know it isn't schizophrenia? I understand what you mean, and by no means am I trying to disrespect it, but I wouldn't have been a Christian at first if I hadn't been born into a Christian family. Likewise, if you were born into a Wiccan/Druidic/Islamic etc. family, you would be the faith of that family.

    For the first thirteen years of my life, so was I. Nothing happened. I believe that Jesus existed, and was quite the good guy, but I don't believe he was a God, or the son of a God.

    First of all, does that matter if I don't believe Jesus was God? Second of all, only the OT existed in Jesus' time. Thirdly, how do you know this? By reading the bible?

    Are you saying that the bible is impossible for a man to have made up? The Qu'Ran too, is quite complex and astounding. Is that equally as true? So are many other holy books. Yet you claim yours to be the only true one? And why? Because it says so in the bible?

    Glad to hear it.

    Thank you.

    I prefer my own direction.

    It's circular reasoning.

    "The bible is true, I know it is"

    "How do you know"

    "Because God said so."

    "Where did he say that?"

    "In the bible."

    "Then how do you know he said it?"

    "I know it's true, because if it isn't, then my entire perspective is shattered! God forbid I should explore anything new!!! I might broaden my horizon!




    Please note, the above was not you, it was a generic invention of my own. Any similarities to real people or events are purely coincedental.

    No "disrespect" is meant from any part of this post.
     
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  10. Pah

    Pah Uber all member

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    If God is not a sexual being, then, in English, God would be know as an IT. You can not use "he"
     
  11. Master Vigil

    Master Vigil Well-Known Member

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    "I have a problem with a "Druid" labeling my GOD in disrespect."

    And I have a problem with a Christian delegating how another should act.

    "If people want respect they must act accordingly."

    Indeed, take your own advice.

    "I know it was not a story because the Holy Spirit has laid that truth on my heart. I was open to GOD to take control of my life and the very first place HE started was with trusting HIS WORD. I have faith in my Salvation through Jesus the Christ"

    Wonderful, but you must understand, that is your OPINION. And I am allowing you to have that opinion. What I don't enjoy is you throwing your opinion around as fact, especially when the evidence is all but convincing.

    "Jesus himself both quoted and fulfilled scripture."

    It's just too bad he didn't write anything down, perhaps you would have proof for that statement.

    "God is not wrong and the truth of the Bible is too astounding to presume to be made up and designed by mortal men on a lark."

    What proof is there? And if you choose history as your proof, try again. I can sit here and type that I am sitting in my house in western pennsylvania january 27th eating dragon tails. Sure, the history proves I am indeed in a place known as western pennsylvania on the given day. But that shows no proof that I am eating dragon tails. There may have been a Jesus of Nazareth, but that shows no proof that he performed miracles, and especially rose from the dead.

    "I am very secure in both my belief and my salvation."

    I am very glad, and would expect no less. What I don't expect is for you to force your opinions upon others who are secure in both their beliefs and salvation (or lack of the need for salvation.)

    "If you are too that is wonderful. If not, perhaps you need to come to the cross and ask GOD for faith, forgiveness, and direction."

    Here is the thing Little Nipper. If I said since you don't agree with me, that you need to come away from that cross, and ask the real god for faith forgiveness and direction, what would you think? I doubt you would like that. But the point is, you may be wrong, we all may be wrong. Like I said, why don't you show some "love" like your "christ" wants you to. Instead of delegating to everyone what they should believe, why not lead by example. Just a thought.
     
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  12. Druidus

    Druidus Keeper of the Grove

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    Bravo Master Vigil, Bravo! :D
     
  13. Ceridwen018

    Ceridwen018 Well-Known Member

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    Honey, there are thousands of people in this country alone who reside in mental hospitals because they have it 'written on their hearts' that they are the reincarnation of Abraham Lincoln, or Shamu, or something equally ridiculous. It is a harsh analogy, to be sure, although no less applicable for it's bluntness. The point here, is that you cannot put all of your eggs in one basket because of some 'special feeling'. The way that our emotions make us feel and view the world is not commonly consistent with reality. The reality here: I predict that you're going to have to do a bit better than appeal to mysterious feelings and ambiguous metaphors for people to take you seriously.

    Whoopdy-do. Any time that you are willing to present an argument for the valididty of the Flood Story beyond the usual, "It says so in the Bible, and that makes it true because god inspired the Bible, and it says that god inspired the Bible....in the Bible." I am sure that many will snap to attention.
     
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  14. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

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    *** MOD POST ***


    15.) Proselytizing will not be tolerated. This forum should be for sharing, discussing and understanding other religions and ideas, not converting others to your individual religion or beliefs



    Click here for a review of the Forum Rules.

    Scott
    Moderator Team
     
  15. Quoth The Raven

    Quoth The Raven Half Arsed Muse

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    T-Rex and people - never seen in the same time at the same time. There weren't any to put on the ark. And the kangaroos that were around were the size of small trees...
     
  16. t3gah

    t3gah Well-Known Member

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    T-Rex and the rest of the dinosaurs must have died during the flood. This would show that the flood is the reason why dinosaurs as we call them do not exist today. We have no idea what Adam called them, etc. And people or scientists rather, are only guessing at whether dinosaurs were meat eaters or vegetarians.
     
  17. Master Vigil

    Master Vigil Well-Known Member

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    Or T3Gah, they died LONG before the "little flood" and we can see that the reason dinosaurs do not exist today by the qualities of the earths layer the fossils are found in. As far as I know, there is no evidence of a great flood at that layer, or before. I actually think there is evidence of carben dioxide which could not be done with water. I'm sure painted wolf knows much more than I, since I remember reading that a while ago.
     
  18. Quoth The Raven

    Quoth The Raven Half Arsed Muse

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    I call the big one 'Bitey'.

    I take it from your comments that you have no familiarity with the fossil record whatsoever.
    They're not actually guesses you know...they work most things out by a variety of indicators, not least of which is tooth comparison with modern animals. Now you may call it a guess, but I'm thinking something with 12" long pointy teeth with a serrated edge was not out there snacking on the local vegetation.
     
  19. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    Could​
    the Ark Have Held All the Animals?





    It is true that encyclopedias refer to over a million species of animals. But Noah was instructed to preserve only representatives of every "kind" of land animal and flying creature. Some investigators have said that just 43 "kinds" of mammals, 74 "kinds" of birds, and 10 "kinds" of reptiles could have produced the great variety of species of these creatures that are known today. The ark had about 40,000 cu m (1,400,000 cu ft) of usable space—ample for the passenger list

     
  20. robtex

    robtex Veteran Member

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    Source? If this theory of yours does hold true since there millions of species on earth today it would be another proof of evolution and with the existance of evolution there would be no use for the boat.
     
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