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Noah and his Ark - Believe it or Not?

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by t3gah, Jan 11, 2005.

?
  1. Yes, I believe the story of the flood and Noah's Ark

    38 vote(s)
    33.0%
  2. No, I don't believe the story of the flood and Noah's Ark

    62 vote(s)
    53.9%
  3. I'm not sure

    7 vote(s)
    6.1%
  4. Who cares?!

    8 vote(s)
    7.0%
  1. robtex

    robtex Veteran Member

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    Who said he can't ? The more important note is that he went about it the most tediouis way possible causing the most complications that could possibly be concievable which makes me think there are two options here:

    1) God is not too good at event planning
    2) A manufactured story with lots of drama and complications would be much more effective in recruiting worshipers by the author and proponets of this work of fiction.
     
  2. Druidus

    Druidus Keeper of the Grove

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    Hmm... If I can burp a burp, then I must be able to burp FIRE!!!

    Seriously, it doesn't matter if God did other thinfs elsewhere in the bible, or where the water came from. The entire scenario is impossible.
     
  3. seraphimfire

    seraphimfire Member

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    Apology accepted,Druid!

    I do tend to use to many !!!!! but I guess that's my excitable nature.:bonk:
    As to all this controversy, in short I see the First Testaments as books of general history and lots of allegory used by God to teach consepts to His children.If the Bible is taken literally it can not be understood by any scientist or a non believer in God! Not to mention fundamentalists! To prove that the flood of Noah was world wide is:banghead3 !! I think there is more at stake here then just a little flood in the Mid-East. The whole earth was not destroyed by floods and the other continents have many legends that point to fire, earthquake, volcanic eruptions and horrible darkness for many years! I really suggest any true seeker wether Christian literalist or skeptic to check out Emanual Velikovski's works.
    "World's in Collision" and "Earth in Upheaval" the latter being more of the scientific work. The flood that happened over 4000 years ago ended a certain civilization that was pre UR. most of our libraries have been lost. The one at the city of UR is to bad and the one at Alexandria, lost by Roman desruction, hurts more! Velikovski has done much research into the flood layers around the world.
    The flood of Noah happened! What it encompassed is open for much discussion! I really believe that only the animals that God wanted in that particular area were saved. To many holes in the story.
    God did give us brains that can logically deduce matters. I for one think that the legend of "The cave of the ancients" is real and the things in there are from the world that was before the destruction
    of those times long ago. A time capsule, we do it today. These books I talk about are not occult or
    Deniken type stuff. Velikovski was a rebel heritic against the established science community of his day(50's). Anything that "rocks" the boat is put down and the books burned!
    At that time God was dealing with the known world and the civilization that brought His wrath upon it. Again I really think it was a world wide cataclysm but diferent things happened around the globe.
    I think I will end my input here!
    Seraph
     
  4. LittleNipper

    LittleNipper Well-Known Member

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    These are so old and so lame. It was not until the day of "modern" science that bats were labeled mammals. That does not mean that to a Near Eastern mind or GOD's that Bats were not created on the 5th day with all other birds of the Earth.

    Rabbits actually poop selective pellets that they will re-ingest. This is the same thing a cow does but from the other end.

    The hebrew word translated here as circle can also be used to describe a ball or orange. The word is better translated sphere. Interestingly, can you imagine anyone sitting on the edge of a plate? I can imagine someone sitting on a ball or globe or sphere.

    Just like there are Dragons in the Bible-----should they have known the "modern" word "terrible lizard" or as we say Dinosaur. The word was made up in the 18th century. It maybe accepted as the scientific term today; however, you can hardly blame someone 3000 years ago from not applying it.

    He who laughs last.....:biglaugh:
     
  5. LittleNipper

    LittleNipper Well-Known Member

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    Noah was doing what he was suppose to be doing------what GOD wanted and not what he wanted to do. Doing want GOD wants us to do might not always be easy, but it sure is enlightening. What good is life if you cannot please GOD while living it.
     
  6. LittleNipper

    LittleNipper Well-Known Member

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    That is why I consider GOD SUPERNATURAL and what GOD does miraculous.
     
  7. robtex

    robtex Veteran Member

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    Little Nipper don't you get it? To say the boat task wasn't easy is the grand understatement of this thread. It was impossible. If God could do a mirlce to correct his first mistake (how an omnipotent God makes mistakes is beyond me), why pick the most tedious long lasting labor driving difficult way to do it? God is never gonna be a foreman on any home improvement projects I have with a head like that.

    It comes down to two things:
    1) God is not too good at event planning (which the Bible seconds in as far as he had to commit genocide on all his creations)

    2) A manufactured story with lots of drama and complications would be much more effective in recruiting worshippers by the author and proponets of this work of fiction.

    which one of those two makes the most sense to you?
     
  8. t3gah

    t3gah Well-Known Member

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    Door number 3.

    We on earth are just a simulation to God. God isn't God, it's a computer like Hal 9000 with the programming gone astray and we, and all of this are just a simulation. :D


    I think everything in the scriptures are plausible as the one scripture states:

    "with God all things are possible"
    I think on the other hand that God, being what he is, created the Universe and all that's in it to have fun.

    That age old word comes to mind.....

    diversity


    must be pretty boring in heaven or where ever God is to have created all of this ::looks around::
     
  9. LittleNipper

    LittleNipper Well-Known Member

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    Your first mistake is to believe GOD makes mistakes. The Lord knew that the Flood would happen. He knew why it would happen, when and how. HIS purpose is to HIS honor and GLORY. I feel GOD wanted to become a human and perform the greatest of sacrifices by suffering for those HIS loves. GOD may know of terror and pain and suffering-------but I believe GOD wanted to experiance it first hand.

    Secondly, you don't believe any of this. The truth is stranger then fiction----why make this up? Does it impress you? GOD isn't trying to impress---HE does not have to. GOD is looking to build faith and trust. You don't do that by providing all the answers. You do not do that by making life easy. You do it one step at a time. To build that Ark took 100 years. Noah may have hired workers. They got paid and went home laughing about the stupid man who warned that rain was coming... Noah's faith grew and he and his family were saved----so he was rewarded.

    Thirdly, just what has your atheism done for you. Built your character. Made you a caring individual, encouraged you to be modest, polite, or thoughtful? Just what will become of you when the rains come.....? (and they will)
     
  10. linwood

    linwood Well-Known Member

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    Thats an excellent question for you Rob.

    Got an answer?

    :)
     
  11. Druidus

    Druidus Keeper of the Grove

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    :biglaugh: This is gonna be good! :D
     
  12. t3gah

    t3gah Well-Known Member

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    I hope people don't get out of control like they did one my "Errors in Bible translations..." thread. That thread got locked. The poll is closed.

    This better not be an attempt to sabotage my threads. I'm going to have to stay online 24/7 if this keeps up so I can report everyone with that little link 'report' in the upper corner.

    calmate talk. :)
     
  13. robtex

    robtex Veteran Member

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    We gotta stay on target on this one but tell you what...if you don't thread the question Linwood highlighted by tomarrow I will cause I would love to have a thead on that too.

    Second on "Why make this up" That could be another thread too and completly again dodges the ark questions so I am assuming you hit a dead end at this point. A quick answer without starting another thread (unless you would like too) is that it is a tool to gain control of others.

    God's omnipotency is already thread a few times on these forums and I want to keep this one on track with the magical boat. In the context of the boat and mistakes if God created all of mankind in his imagine than changed his mind and murdered them all by drowning them than that concedes to a mistake in relation to the tale of the ark.

    And if God's solution was to spend a man's lifetime making a ship that was too small to hold everything too light to float and than have to use divine intervention to make it all work in the first place than he made a huge and long lasting mistake by not just making the creatures he wanted to murder just disappear anyway or have them drop dead and than dissappear.

    Sorry about going backwards I was just using a mirror.
     
  14. linwood

    linwood Well-Known Member

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  15. Ceridwen018

    Ceridwen018 Well-Known Member

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    Honey, the Flood itself was a direct result of god's mistakes. Don't say god doesn't make mistakes and then talk about the Flood. If God didn't make mistakes, he never would have needed the Flood.

    Maybe not god, but I'm sure there's some lucky Isaac rolling in his grave, laughing as only the dead can.

    I disagree, but perhaps this is off topic. All I can say is that I am not very willing to trust someone who keeps things from me and intentionally makes my life more difficult than it has to be.

    So was Odysseus. What's your point?
     
  16. LittleNipper

    LittleNipper Well-Known Member

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    GOD never makes mistakes. HIS will is HIS will. The Flood was for our benifit and not GOD's. The implications are that fallen angels were likely being used of Satan in an attempt to pollute the genetic line that the Savior was to eventually be born to. Read Genesis 6:4-6. The fact is that everyone dies of something. I believe I'd rather drown then be burned alive, so in that regard I feel GOD was more than merciful. The eternity that those that drowned received was of their own choice. Read the book of JOB. There I believe GOD has attempted to provide to man in the only way possible, insight to the interaction between GOD, Satan, and Man. I can only imagine that Satan was doing the exact same thing before GOD allowed the Flood.
     
  17. Druidus

    Druidus Keeper of the Grove

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    Was it a mistake or a lie?

    To repent means that your first course was a mistake.

    [font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]
    [/font]

    [font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]Again with the repenting...
    [/font]

    [font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]
    [/font]

    [font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]And again...
    [/font]

    [font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]That would appear to be logical, unless someone was controlling his mind.
    [/font]

    Then why does "God" say that he had repented creating man on Earth, and wants to destroy them for the sorrow they wrought?
     
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  18. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    Jesus​
    and the Flood









    Jesus Christ had a prehuman existence. (Proverbs 8:30, 31) He was a spirit creature in heaven during the Flood. As an eyewitness, Jesus therefore gives us the greatest Scriptural confirmation of Noah and the Deluge. Said Jesus: "Just as the days of Noah were, so the presence of the Son of man will be. For as they were in those days before the flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark; and they took no note until the flood came and swept them all away, so the presence of the Son of man will be."—Matthew 24:37-39.​

    Would Jesus use folklore to warn us about the coming end of this system of things? Hardly! We can be confident that he used a genuine example of the execution of divine judgment upon the wicked. Yes, lives were lost, but we can draw comfort from knowing that Noah and his family were saved through the Flood.


    When​
    Did the Flood Occur?





    The Bible provides chronological information that allows for a careful count back to the beginning of human history. At Genesis 5:1-29, we find the genealogical line from the creation of the first man, Adam, to the birth of Noah. The Deluge began "in the six hundredth year of Noah’s life."—Genesis 7:11.


     
  19. LittleNipper

    LittleNipper Well-Known Member

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    GOD is expressing in human terms HIS deepest feelings. I have a son. I love him to death. But sometimes he does things that make me feel bad. He isn't even a teenager yet... I would never want anything to happen to him and yet I can imagine that there will come moments when I will wonder what life would have been like had he never been born. GOD is saying, "Hey, I can relate to you!"
     
  20. Druidus

    Druidus Keeper of the Grove

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    But it's blatantly showing that she believed her first course of action to be wrong, thus, a mistake. ;)
     
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