No God, but Satan...?

[savethedreams]

Satanism and much of Luciferian philosophy stems from Christianity or rebellion of Dogma and some social norms. My question is Would there be Satanism / Luciferians if there were no Dogma and/or Abrahamic religions?

 

[Covellite]

Satanism and much of Luciferian philosophy stems from Christianity or rebellion of Dogma and some social norms. My question is Would there be Satanism / Luciferians if there were no Dogma and/or Abrahamic religions?

Christianity has definition of Luciferian philosophy, and use that for there's own purpose.
Lucifenian philosophy is older then Christianity and it's present in different cultures under different names.

 

[savethedreams]

Christianity has definition of Luciferian philosophy, and use that for there's own purpose.
Lucifenian philosophy is older then Christianity and it's present in different cultures under different names.

How is the philosophy of Luciferians older then Christians ? Please please explain.

 

[Covellite]

How is the philosophy of Luciferians older then Christians ? Please please explain.

The philosophy of Luciferians has his roots in older ancient philosophy, since ancient Egypt, Sumeria, Greek's mythology and many more.
Many scholars find the connection between, let's say Lucifer and Prometheus.
Some phsychologists claim it's a mythological projection of the human psyche.

 

[savethedreams]

The philosophy of Luciferians has his roots in older ancient philosophy, since ancient Egypt, Sumeria, Greek's mythology and many more.
Many scholars find the connection between, let's say Lucifer and Prometheus.
Some phsychologists claim it's a mythological projection of the human psyche.

How do you learn more about this Philosophy? I've read many luciferian and satanism material and books. Most of which are social Rebels.

 

[Covellite]

How do you learn more about this Philosophy? I've read many luciferian and satanism material and books. Most of which are social Rebels.

"Lucifer and Prometheus" was one of many volumes in The International Library of Psychology. There are so many sources you can find more about this subject.
It's a very complex subject.
I'm not sure should I start to tell you about my own experience with Lucifer... It's not relevant to your question.

 

[Quintessence]

*** thread closed for staff review ***​

 

[Shiranui117]

***THREAD RE-OPENED***
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[crossfire]

How do you learn more about this Philosophy? I've read many luciferian and satanism material and books. Most of which are social Rebels.

Buddha was a social rebel against both the Brahmin cultural dogma (Maara) as well as the proto-Jain shramanas (against their extreme self-afflicition.) One might even compare the Bodhisattva tradition to the Promethean/Luciferian traditions.

 

[crossfire]

Hi
Jesus is referred to as ''Lucifer''. It's just a title

have a good day

Actually, "Morning Star" (Lampros o Proinos) in Revelation 22:16.

 

[GoodbyeDave]

This is a point that I've always wished to have explained. Unlike some pagans (remember Bonewits?), I don't have problems with Satanism and accept it as another variety of paganism. I read Diane Vera's site and find lots that I agree with — more than in a Wiccan site, in fact. But I'm still lost as to why she worships a selection of divinities from a variety of pantheons and adds in an entity who was never considered divine before the last century (Lilith). Then why pick a name from Jewish scriptures? Why the constant cross-referencing to Christianity? — if I were asked to explain my variety of paganism, I doubt if Christianity would even get a mention.

Perhaps one day some kind soul will give me the answer!

 

[Adramelek]

I like the Promethean legend of taking the sacred knowledge of the Divine Fire and bestowing it unto mankind. I can't say that I like this thread though.

 

[Adramelek]

I like the Promethean legend of taking the sacred knowledge of the Divine Fire and bestowing it unto mankind.

This was later reflected in Judeo/Christian mythology when the Serpent (Lucifer-Satan) tempted Eve who in turn tempted Adam to partake of the fruit of the "forbidden" knowledge of good and evil. Again, the rebel god or angel becomes the great benefactor of mankind bestowing unto us the gift of enlightenment.

 

[Liu]

This is a point that I've always wished to have explained. Unlike some pagans (remember Bonewits?), I don't have problems with Satanism and accept it as another variety of paganism. I read Diane Vera's site and find lots that I agree with — more than in a Wiccan site, in fact. But I'm still lost as to why she worships a selection of divinities from a variety of pantheons and adds in an entity who was never considered divine before the last century (Lilith). Then why pick a name from Jewish scriptures? Why the constant cross-referencing to Christianity? — if I were asked to explain my variety of paganism, I doubt if Christianity would even get a mention.

Perhaps one day some kind soul will give me the answer!

Satanism doesn't necessarily have anything more to do with Christianity and related religions but its name (and as I'll argue, not even necessarily that). We took the name of Satan for our patron deity or divine concept etc. since in the culture we live in it reflects quite well some of the aspects of our beliefs. In which exact way will depend on whom you ask, be it the promethian/enlightening aspects, or the antithetical and antinomian ones, or the amorality and egocentrism, or whatever else. Some may merely like the vibes, the imagery.

For some people nowadays it's mostly historic reasons, though - there now is a religion/philosophy called Satanism and if you consider it to be in line with your beliefs then why not also take the name of it, and the mythology connected to it? Basically as a prepackaged religion to change and adjust to your own liking.

Many Satanists don't believe their deity or venerated concept to be the same entity as what Christians call Satan (some do, e.g. Diane Vera whom you mentioned, but she believes that what the Christians believe about her deity is mostly wrong), so we can also give It whatever name we like to. The Setians for example did exactly that by renaming their deity Set and concentrating on Egypt culture, some gnostic Satanists seem to more-or-less equate It with Tiamat, or with Loki and/or Gullveig, to focus on different aspects of It, and I'd argue for Discordians to be some kind of Satanists as well.

I myself, yes I call myself a Satanist here as I basically have the same religion as other people who do so, but I use a lot of different names for my (concept of) deity and may as well simply say I'm a Left Hand Pather - another not very consistently used term stolen from yet another religion.

 

[crossfire]

This was later reflected in Judeo/Christian mythology when the Serpent (Lucifer-Satan) tempted Eve who in turn tempted Adam to partake of the fruit of the "forbidden" knowledge of good and evil. Again, the rebel god or angel becomes the great benefactor of mankind bestowing unto us the gift of enlightenment.

Mucchilinda (the serpent) sheltering Buddha during his meditation leading to his awakening:

 

[savethedreams]

Satanism doesn't necessarily have anything more to do with Christianity and related religions but its name (and as I'll argue, not even necessarily that). We took the name of Satan for our patron deity or divine concept etc. since in the culture we live in it reflects quite well some of the aspects of our beliefs. In which exact way will depend on whom you ask, be it the promethian/enlightening aspects, or the antithetical and antinomian ones, or the amorality and egocentrism, or whatever else. Some may merely like the vibes, the imagery.

For some people nowadays it's mostly historic reasons, though - there now is a religion/philosophy called Satanism and if you consider it to be in line with your beliefs then why not also take the name of it, and the mythology connected to it? Basically as a prepackaged religion to change and adjust to your own liking.

Many Satanists don't believe their deity or venerated concept to be the same entity as what Christians call Satan (some do, e.g. Diane Vera whom you mentioned, but she believes that what the Christians believe about her deity is mostly wrong), so we can also give It whatever name we like to. The Setians for example did exactly that by renaming their deity Set and concentrating on Egypt culture, some gnostic Satanists seem to more-or-less equate It with Tiamat, or with Loki and/or Gullveig, to focus on different aspects of It, and I'd argue for Discordians to be some kind of Satanists as well.

I myself, yes I call myself a Satanist here as I basically have the same religion as other people who do so, but I use a lot of different names for my (concept of) deity and may as well simply say I'm a Left Hand Pather - another not very consistently used term stolen from yet another religion.

So this "Satanism" deals with society and its social construct and rebelling against it ?

If there were no Abrahamic religions would there be satanism or atheist who were self-empowering ?

 

[crossfire]

So this "Satanism" deals with society and its social construct and rebelling against it ?

If there were no Abrahamic religions would there be satanism or atheist who were self-empowering ?

Buddha was self-awakened, rebelled against the local cultural egregores, and had nothing to do with Abrahamic religions.

 

[Liu]

So this "Satanism" deals with society and its social construct and rebelling against it ?

Dunno whether many Satanists are focused that much on society, I think most don't spend much energy on actively rebelling against it if it can be avoided. It's more of an internal process than an outright fight. How true your description is will depend a lot on which Satanist you look at.

If there were no Abrahamic religions would there be satanism or atheist who were self-empowering ?

I can't tell what exactly would be instead of Satanism if the Abrahamic religions wouldn't exist - it also depends on what kind of other religions were there instead of them. But Satanism then of course would have a different name, if it would even exist in a comparable shape as the whole intellectual history would have taken different courses. There have been heterodox currents in other cultures, too, but their exact focus varies. While I, personally, do see the same "principle" behind heterodoxy in general and Satanism in particular, that doesn't mean that I'd insist on calling other heterodox and self-empowering movements Satanism. For example

Buddha was self-awakened, rebelled against the local cultural egregores, and had nothing to do with Abrahamic religions.

What distinguishes him from most Satanists is for example his dismissal of worldlines.

Returning to your other question, @savethedreams, I wouldn't say that Atheism is an equivalent to Satanism: You can be an Atheist and nevertheless have other ideologies that you follow mindlessly, it's not merely about religion.
Self-empowering atheists that don't call themselves Satanists certainly exist even with the existence of Abrahamic religions, there are more of those than Satanists (I mean, according to Wikipedia there are only 100,000 of us worldwide xD). And at least one fraction of Satanists are basically no different from such Atheists.
The rest of the atheistic ones are no mere Atheists, though, but, well, you could say spiritual Atheists, not in that they necessarily believe in the supernatural, but in that they use religious symbolism, imagery and activities to thereby give their life some meaning, empower their selves, experiment with their psyche and have a bit of fun. And the same is also done by the Theists, even though they may take things a tad more seriously.

It's really difficult, though, to make such generalizations about Satanism - I guess for almost everything I said here about it one could easily find counter-examples.

 

[savethedreams]

Dunno whether many Satanists are focused that much on society, I think most don't spend much energy on actively rebelling against it if it can be avoided. It's more of an internal process than an outright fight. How true your description is will depend a lot on which Satanist you look at.



I can't tell what exactly would be instead of Satanism if the Abrahamic religions wouldn't exist - it also depends on what kind of other religions were there instead of them. But Satanism then of course would have a different name, if it would even exist in a comparable shape as the whole intellectual history would have taken different courses. There have been heterodox currents in other cultures, too, but their exact focus varies. While I, personally, do see the same "principle" behind heterodoxy in general and Satanism in particular, that doesn't mean that I'd insist on calling other heterodox and self-empowering movements Satanism. For example What distinguishes him from most Satanists is for example his dismissal of worldlines.

Returning to your other question, @savethedreams, I wouldn't say that Atheism is an equivalent to Satanism: You can be an Atheist and nevertheless have other ideologies that you follow mindlessly, it's not merely about religion.
Self-empowering atheists that don't call themselves Satanists certainly exist even with the existence of Abrahamic religions, there are more of those than Satanists (I mean, according to Wikipedia there are only 100,000 of us worldwide xD). And at least one fraction of Satanists are basically no different from such Atheists.
The rest of the atheistic ones are no mere Atheists, though, but, well, you could say spiritual Atheists, not in that they necessarily believe in the supernatural, but in that they use religious symbolism, imagery and activities to thereby give their life some meaning, empower their selves, experiment with their psyche and have a bit of fun. And the same is also done by the Theists, even though they may take things a tad more seriously.

It's really difficult, though, to make such generalizations about Satanism - I guess for almost everything I said here about it one could easily find counter-examples.

The how is satanism differ from luciferian and still be religious ? It seems like an internal rebel against mainstream religion and society. Without religion and social construct what is satanism ?

 

[Adramelek]

So this "Satanism" deals with society and its social construct and rebelling against it ?

If there were no Abrahamic religions would there be satanism or atheist who were self-empowering ?

If there were no Abrahamic religions there would be no need for Satanism as there would be no Self-subjugating, anti-individual will, monotheistic religions to rebel against. As with ancient Egypt/Greece before, the world would still be endowed with major Self-empowering, psyche-worshipping religions and initiatory schools of thought and Magick. However, neither time nor the brutal tactics of conversion and wars these Abrahamic religions have employed and instigated have the power to destroy the strongest and most noble religions and philosophies of old.