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Nick Cave labels ‘cancel culture’ as “mercy’s antithesis”

Discussion in 'General Debates' started by Cooky, Aug 14, 2020.

  1. Cooky

    Cooky Veteran Member

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    You guys seem to want to make this political between left-wing and right-wing, but it's not... Not at all...

    How 'cancel culture' has turned liberals against each other and is rocking newsrooms

    ...This is about a culture that has taken on all the traits of a really bad religion. It's about forcing "dogma" onto others in a most brutal fashion.
     
    #21 Cooky, Aug 14, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2020
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  2. Cooky

    Cooky Veteran Member

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    You like to portray it that way, but in reality, it doesn’t matter if someone is left wing or right... Cancel culture has no mercy regardless of political affiliation. And many liberals are speaking out against it.

    BreakPoint: Big-name liberals reject cancel culture, but why?

    On July 7, a number of high-profile thinkers (153 to be exact), many of whom would sit on the left of the spectrum, expressed their collective concern over cancel culture. In a letter published by Harper's Magazine, this group of authors, journalists, academics and artists warn of cancel culture's "intolerant climate" and reaffirm the value of open and civil debate.

    The group includes some of the brightest stars in the progressive firmament: Harry Potter author J.K. Rowling; left-wing linguist and philosopher Noam Chomsky; author of "The Handmaid's Tale" Margaret Atwood; feminist Gloria Steinem; "Satanic Verses" author Salman Rushdie; New York Times columnist Michelle Goldberg, journalist Malcolm Gladwell; and the magazine's president, John MacArthur.
     
    #22 Cooky, Aug 14, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2020
  3. 'mud

    'mud ~~ Life is Stuff ~~
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  4. SomeRandom

    SomeRandom Still learning to be wise
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    Cancel culture has always existed and has been used by people of all political walks of life.
    From boycotts due to “ethical concerns” to literally burning books (Harry Potter).
    People like to blame it on Political Correctness. But there’s a reason PR managers exist in Hollywood. And it’s not like that’s a new profession.
    And whilst I can agree there are legitimate good faith criticisms (like @Father Heathen offered) too often I see arguments against “Cancel Culture” used to protect racist/sexist/homophobic ******** who can’t handle the heat.

    I’m not American so this whole “left vs right” thing is something foreign to me. But someone pointed out another platform I frequent was that the only reason right wingers don’t like cancel culture is because the Leftists have used it more successfully than they have in the past. And I mean from my observations I kind of have to agree. For the most part.

    As for “being uncomfortable with ideas” again I have to disagree. What I have witnessed (and shamefully engaged in myself at one time) in my once beloved nerdy safe spaces is the so called Alt Right running away from uncomfortable discussions. Mostly about privilege and toxic masculinity. And outright encouraging a shallow engagement with the arts. Trying to get their younger followers to purposefully depoliticise art. Which sounds suspiciously like a tactic by Minitrue from 1984 if you ask me. But whatever.
    Declawing artistic lamentations of the human experience and actively discouraging critical thinking. The so called Fandom Menace comes to mind. People complaining that Watchmen is too political. XMen getting too political. Captain freaking America too political. (Incidentally my history teacher loved the original print of him punching Hitler because she hates his guts.)
    I even had a discussion with a person recently who was upset that Rage Against the Machine was getting too political. I sincerely hope they were just pulling my leg. Sheesh!
    It’s even a meme, r/whoosh or the guy liking the sci fi story and completely missing the deeper meaning.
    Of course if a person chooses to ignore subtext, that’s their prerogative. But to claim it’s superior to “politicising everything” stifles art critique imo.

    Of course this is just my online misadventures. My irl friends circle are mostly concerned with geeking out over things.
    Though I suppose I have seen politicians be raked over the coals for various “non pc actions.” Probably harder to cancel them than some random jerk though.
     
    #24 SomeRandom, Aug 14, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2020
  5. Cooky

    Cooky Veteran Member

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    Actually cancel culture started in 2019, and isn't about boycotting or burning books.. it's about ruining peoples lives intentionally and feeling happy about it.

    It's about canceling people from society, with no hope for redemption. Which is strange for a secular society.
     
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  6. Tambourine

    Tambourine Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that has never happened before 2019.
     
  7. Tambourine

    Tambourine Well-Known Member

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    It's not. Calling Out and Cancelling are two separate methods (and would not be employed at the same time).

    Yea, I noticed.
     
    #27 Tambourine, Aug 14, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2020
  8. gnomon

    gnomon Well-Known Member

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  9. SomeRandom

    SomeRandom Still learning to be wise
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    We’ve been doing that since the Middle Ages. We just called it shunning, boycotting and other labels. Same crap different name is all.
    Although we no longer burn people at the stake. So that’s something
     
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  10. Lyndon

    Lyndon "Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
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    If Trump is reelected he'll probably bring back burning at the stake!
     
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  11. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    Is that why even Obama denounced it and said "that's not activism."? Is that why many college graduation commencement speakers got invited and then uninvited? Is that why I read an article about kids doing it in real life and basically ignoring people as if they didn't exist?
     
    #31 Shadow Wolf, Aug 14, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2020
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  12. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    No, its basically been around for a long time, we just call it something different. When I was growing up, for example, we had a "Satanic Panic" and eventhing from Magic the Gathering to Judas Priest was bad and evil.
    When my mom was growing up Southern Conservatives launched their cancel culture mission against the Beatles.
    And then the radio "no play list" after 9/11. That was early 21st century cancel culture. SNL even partook in it during the 90s amd demanded Rage Against the Machine change their planned set decorations, change the songs, pulled the plig on them, and banned them to protect the feelings of a then-Republican presidential candidate hopeful Steven Forbes.
     
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  13. Augustus

    Augustus the Unreasonable

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    You can disagree that 'cancel culture' is a problem, but it is objectively false to paint it as something only the right are concerned about.

    Plenty of people of your political/ideological persuasion, centre-left Secular Humanists and rational sceptics, are among its biggest critics.
     
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  14. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    That simply isn't happening. The article is BS.
     
  15. Cooky

    Cooky Veteran Member

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  16. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    It is happening. PC Libs don't like you, and an apology will never be enough. They want you silenced, they want you ruined. They shame being human like being Evangelicals do, and expect people to accept the same sort of guilt and shame, but only if you're white (and, of course, "
    judging by skin color rather than content of character is "racism 101.") Even our sexuality they want reigned in, censored, padded, and sexless. But there is no inherent crime or wrong in calling a woman beautiful, as with all things context is everything. But cancel culture says context doesn't matter. And to top it off, they filter and censor and do not people reading certain things, just as the last church I attended did as they discarded materials from their library that did not 100% fall in line with their dogma (one author was even considered very good, but he had to go because he was Pentecostal and this wrong and could lead people off the "correct path"). This group is so bad, the whote ones especially will argue with people about race stuff amd stand firm by what they believe, regardless of what the race they are discussing says (like white PC libs arguing and foaming at the mputh asthe insist Latino and Hispanic are interchangeable, with no acknowledgement of a person's fluency or background in Spanish).
    Amd if you don't agree with them your going to Hell, amd they'll "cancel" you by demanding you be shamed and calling you a bad person amd demand your silence. (They are especially bad when it comes to dogmatically defending everything Islam, even though that does a great disservice to liberal and progressive Muslims in the Middle East).
     
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  17. Cooky

    Cooky Veteran Member

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    The "shame" for being human part I hadn't even thought of. What an impressive parallel! This is masterful creativity, I wish I could give it a winner and a creative rating.

    ...It's exactly what this thread is about, including "having an asphyxiating effect on the creative soul of a society", which clearly doesn't apply to you, as someone who's not an apologist for it.
     
    #37 Cooky, Aug 15, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2020
  18. Cooky

    Cooky Veteran Member

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    This is not creative. Sorry to say. :(

    ...It seems totally reactionary, which is in essence, perfectly in line with the shallowness of cancel culture.

    It would be just like saying racism doesn't exist, but on the opposite side of the spectrum. And doesn’t even have the capacity to begin to reach the point of understanding the bad religion parallels that are the meat of the whole topic.
     
    #38 Cooky, Aug 15, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2020
  19. Cooky

    Cooky Veteran Member

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    Through Nick Cave, we've just discovered art in a debate, with everyone being first-hand actors. This has become a very fulfilling thread. :)

     
  20. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    I think to me it sticks out like a sore thumb because I was an Evangelical, and reading PC/SJW literature I see the same "amazing grace, where ince I was lost now I see," amd lots and lotd amd lots of shaming and being guitly just for existing. Hence why I will sometimes refer to them as the Evangelical Left.
     
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