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Nick Cave labels ‘cancel culture’ as “mercy’s antithesis”

Cooky

Veteran Member
You gave examples of people being cancelled. That does not make it a 'culture'. And your assertion that people who call for boycotts are the leftist version of fundamentalist Christians is just that, an assertion without supporting argument or evidence.

Calling for boycotts is a legitimate political tactic. Refusing to interact with people seen as toxic is a legitimate form of community policing. You falling into a moral panic over it does not delegitimize these methods.

This isn't about boycotts or refusing to interact with people. It's about shamimg people for ridiculous, over the top, overly-confusing reasons.

If you're not willing to look at it from that angle, and see what's happened, and only want to see it from your point of view, and deny that such things have taken place, then that's your shortcoming. You're only limiting yourself.
 

Tambourine

Well-Known Member
This isn't about boycotts or refusing to interact with people.
Au contraire, it is about nothing but. Rich people are being boycotted, and so they whine and cry about it. And because we worship the famous and wealthy, we whine and cry with them, while the people who boycott them are showered with death threats and harassed off social media platforms for their impertinence.

That is the real harm this moral panic is causing, but of course it happens to unimportant people, so nobody cares. No, we must protect the honor of multimillionaires like JK Rowling, those hapless poor victims of 'mob violence' (even though there was neither a mob, nor violence).

It's about shamimg people for ridiculous, over the top, overly-confusing reasons.
Are transphobia, homophobia, misogyny and racism reasons you consider "over the top, overly-confusing"?

If you're not willing to look at it from that angle, and see what's happened, and only want to see it from your point of view, and deny that such things have taken place, then that's your shortcoming.
Yes, it is my shortcoming that I disagree with you. Disagreement is evilbadwrong.

Let me know once you have seen the problem from my point of view.
 

Cooky

Veteran Member
Au contraire, it is about nothing but. Rich people are being boycotted, and so they whine and cry about it. And because we worship the famous and wealthy, we whine and cry with them, while the people who boycott them are showered with death threats and harassed off social media platforms for their impertinence.

That is the real harm this moral panic is causing, but of course it happens to unimportant people, so nobody cares. No, we must protect the honor of multimillionaires like JK Rowling, those hapless poor victims of 'mob violence' (even though there was neither a mob, nor violence).


Are transphobia, homophobia, misogyny and racism reasons you consider "over the top, overly-confusing"?


Let me know when you have seen the problem from my point of view, then.

What country are you in?

...I'm talking about what's going in in the United States. It could be that you don't know what's going on over here.
 

Cooky

Veteran Member
And yet your opening post concerned a musician from Australia.

Last time I checked, that's not the United States.

What he described is exactly what's happening here.. So you must be seeing the same results then...

...But you're ignoring them, and talking about boycotts.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
You gave examples of people being cancelled. That does not make it a 'culture'.
I have never clsimed it is a culture. I have repeatedly stated it's a subculture. Because it is. The type of sub culture that hears about a letter in Harper's Magazine defending free speech and suddenly people who have never heard of Chomsky denounce him and kids amd young adults thinking they know the issues better than Chomsky. This subculture wants him canceled for standing up for free speech. And its common they do that. Just as the want to cancel Middle Easter Muslims who flee to the West in fear of their lives (or their families) and criticize the world they came from (but you can bash Christianity and Christians all day with no repercussions according to the PC cancelers).
And your assertion that people who call for boycotts are the leftist version of fundamentalist Christians is just that, an assertion without supporting argument or evidence.
I have been giving supporting evidence. Like pointing out the similarities between Original Sin and Christian guilt and shame and the many things Cancelers do that are comparable, such as claiming all white people are racist, finding it a horrible thing to say a woman is beautiful, censorship that works the same as the last church I attended, and statements that strongly parallel an "Amazing Grace, where once I was lost but now I see" sort of mentality.
Calling for boycotts is a legitimate political tactic. Refusing to interact with people seen as toxic is a legitimate form of community policing. You falling into a moral panic over it does not delegitimize these methods.
We aren't talking abkut boycotts. We are talking about people who keep pushing the issue after an apology and expect people to be saints (the worst in my personal experience is a former friend who had the nerve to butt her nose into my personal life and friendships and dared to ask me how I can be friends with a family I am close friends with and suggestedmy being friends with them was a bad and unacceptable. And then there was one who personally canceled me out of her life with no explanation at all, she just suddenly quit talking to me, so I don't even know if we ever even friends to begin with.)
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
And yet your opening post concerned a musician from Australia.

Last time I checked, that's not the United States.
Bill Maher, in the United States, was canceled and disinvited from goving a university graduation commencement speech over false allegations he is Islamophobic (and as he pointed out, shame on them making it about him whem it should have remained being about the graduates as it was their day and not the Cancelers from everywhere in America who weren't a part of the ceremony).
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Are transphobia, homophobia, misogyny and racism reasons you consider "over the top, overly-confusing"?
Denying them their rights is just as wrong as their bigotry. Supporting free speech means more than supporting what you agree with. You have to support what you hate to rightfully call yourself a supporter of free speech. We need not protect speech that explicitly calls for violence and discrimination, but a healthy and secure society need not censor itself.
 

Tambourine

Well-Known Member
Denying them their rights is just as wrong as their bigotry.
Just what rights are being denied by cancelling, boycotting or calling a person out?

Supporting free speech means more than supporting what you agree with. You have to support what you hate to rightfully call yourself a supporter of free speech. We need not protect speech that explicitly calls for violence and discrimination, but a healthy and secure society need not censor itself.
No, you do not have to "support what you hate". People have a right to be critical of those whose speech they consider harmful or toxic.
That's part of what freedom of speech entails.
 

Tambourine

Well-Known Member
Bill Maher, in the United States, was canceled and disinvited from goving a university graduation commencement speech over false allegations he is Islamophobic (and as he pointed out, shame on them making it about him whem it should have remained being about the graduates as it was their day and not the Cancelers from everywhere in America who weren't a part of the ceremony).
Do universities not have the right to disinvite people? Is Bill Maher entitled to paid gigs at public universities?
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Do universities not have the right to disinvite people? Is Bill Maher entitled to paid gigs at public universities?
The reasons he was disinvited over were false, it took attention away from the graduates, and it was punishing him for practicing his right to free speech in a way totally unrelated to the event at hand.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Just what rights are being denied by cancelling, boycotting or calling a person out?
Boycotting isn't cancelling. I boycott Chik-Fil-a by not buying their stuff or patronizing their facilities. I'm not demanding silence whem the CEO voices hes anti-LGBT.
That's part of what freedom of speech entails.
As does supporting their right to say it. And it's better that way, because you may hold the power today, tomorrow the tables could be turned.
 

Tambourine

Well-Known Member
The reasons he was disinvited over were false, it took attention away from the graduates, and it was punishing him for practicing his right to free speech in a way totally unrelated to the event at hand.
Would you have been fine with the university disinviting Maher if the allegiations were true?

Boycotting isn't cancelling. I boycott Chik-Fil-a by not buying their stuff or patronizing their facilities. I'm not demanding silence whem the CEO voices hes anti-LGBT. [...]
Then what is the point of your boycott? What are you trying to achieve?
 

Tambourine

Well-Known Member
What he described is exactly what's happening here.. So you must be seeing the same results then...

...But you're ignoring them, and talking about boycotts.
So the question where Nick Cave comes from is unimportant because you agree with him, but because we disagree, it suddenly becomes very important where I'm from, because it would potentially open up an opportunity for you to easily dismiss my remarks as an ignorant foreigner's.
That was your strategy in a nutshell, wasn't it?
 

Cooky

Veteran Member
So the question where Nick Cave comes from is unimportant because you agree with him, but because we disagree, it suddenly becomes very important where I'm from, because it would potentially open up an opportunity for you to easily dismiss my remarks as an ignorant foreigner's.
That was your strategy in a nutshell, wasn't it?

Not at all. I was just wondering at what level of the cancel culture you've been exposed to... What you've seen is all.

...Because aside from common boycotts, there's a lot of over the top stuff going on. I think that's what a lot of people are having issue with.
 

Tambourine

Well-Known Member
Not at all. I was just wondering at what level of the cancel culture you've been exposed to... What you've seen is all.

...Because aside from common boycotts, there's a lot of over the top stuff going on. I think that's what a lot of people are having issue with.
Is there a particular reason why you never actually name specific examples of the "over the top stuff'" you allegedly see constantly in those alleged "cancel culture" cesspools full of dangerous leftist zealots?
 

Cooky

Veteran Member

Tambourine

Well-Known Member
How is refusing to follow someone on social media over some perceived offense an "over the top" reaction?

What is being decried as 'cancel culture' is literally how Youtube is intended to work: If you like a channel and want to support them, you subscribe. If you no longer like them and don't want to support them any more, you cancel your subscription.

Is that not how a Free Market of Ideas is supposed to work?
 

Cooky

Veteran Member
How is refusing to follow someone on social media over some perceived offense an "over the top" reaction?

What is being decried as 'cancel culture' is literally how Youtube is intended to work: If you like a channel and want to support them, you subscribe. If you no longer like them and don't want to support them any more, you cancel your subscription.

Is that not how a Free Market of Ideas is supposed to work?

@Tambourine...? Tambourine.... Excuse me, but do you have any idea what it's like losing 250,000 followers overnight? I don’t think you do. o_O
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Would you have been fine with the university disinviting Maher if the allegiations were true?
No. The only time I support curtailing freedom of speech is when the speech calls for violence and discrimination.
Then what is the point of your boycott? What are you trying to achieve?
The point is I refuse to give money to an organization that promotes an agenda that strives to do damage to the LGBT community.
How is refusing to follow someone on social media over some perceived offense an "over the top" reaction?

What is being decried as 'cancel culture' is literally how Youtube is intended to work: If you like a channel and want to support them, you subscribe. If you no longer like them and don't want to support them any more, you cancel your subscription.

Is that not how a Free Market of Ideas is supposed to work?
It stiffles a free and open society to dilence things. And don't forget this isn't just people unsubscribing. These people have been merciless in refusing to accept apologies and stopping nothing short of seeing someone's career ended and their lives wrecked. Which is itself a form of violence. And often times they aren't bad people. Some of them just make a boneheaded mistake, but the cancel culture won't accept that, and much like a Southern Baptist who sees the devil everywhere,the Cancelers don't stop until they've achieved the goals of their own Inquisition.

 
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