New to Advaita Vedanta, seeking clarification

[Aupmanyav]

As an atheist, do you have positive thoughts? I wish I were like you and didn't have negative thoughts.

Yeah, I am an optimist to the core. You too try and you can be that.

At one time, I was an optimist because of my theistic views (Prapatti, total surrender to God). Now I am an optimist on my own.

 

[SeRe]

Yeah, I am an optimist to the core. You too try and you can be that.

At one time, I was an optimist because of my theistic views (Prapatti, total surrender to God). Now I am an optimist on my own.

Yes, I'm trying to be an optimist too. I heard it can be liberating.

 

[SeRe]

Kolkata. My home town.

Very beautiful picture of the goddess.

 

[Valjean]

How does a follower of Advaita Vedanta react to some really great event? For example, winning the lottery or realizing a lifelong dream?

Being neutral is an easier attitude to adopt when one is sad, right?

Vedanta doesn't necessarily inform one's actions in earthly affairs.

 

[SalixIncendium]

How does a follower of Advaita Vedanta react to some really great event? For example, winning the lottery or realizing a lifelong dream?

Being neutral is an easier attitude to adopt when one is sad, right?

Just because one follows Advaita Vedanta doesn't necessarily mean they are self-realized. Most, when they speak of "I" are speaking from the perspective of the person; the body/mind, and not the "I" as that of the unchanging Atman.

Knowing doesn't necessarily equate to being.

 

[shivsomashekhar]

Hello All, I'm very new to the teachings of Advaita Vedanta, and Ramana Maharshi, so please be patient with me. I came across the following:

1. Ramana Maharshi's note to his mother: The Ordainer controls the fate of souls in accordance with their past deeds. Whatever is destined not to happen will not happen, try how hard you may. Whatever is destined to happen will happen, do what you may to stop it. This is certain. The best course, therefore, is to remain silent.
   
   
2. From 'Day by Day with Bhagavan'
   Question: "Are our prayers granted?"
   Bhagavan Sri Ramana : "Yes, they are granted. No thought will go in vain. Every thought will produce its effect some time or other. Thought-force will never go in vain."

My question is, how can both be true? Suppose a person wants a job at XYZ company, but it is not in his destiny. He still prays to God for it, and according to the above, God grants it.

Your are correct. Obviously, they both cannot be true at the same time. Ramana - or anyone else - have no way of knowing these things. They do not have access to some secret knowledge source that is denied to other people. And this has nothing at all to do with Advaita and therefore, this is not what you can learn from Ramana. His opinions on other matters are no more valuable than anyone else's. This is generally a problem with followers of Indian Gurus. The lines seem to blur and the Guru is expected to be be some kind of Oracle/Wikipedia who is supposed to have intimate knowledge on every topic in the world - ranging across politics, health, history, astrology and religion.

I am very new to this subject, so I posted here. I understand that the ultimate goal of Advaita Vedanta is to rise above the maya of this world and recognize/merge with the self. I'm just trying to understand the basics.

Aren't you part of the very Maya that you are trying to exit?
You are the self. What does it mean by you merging with yourself?

If you are truly serious about Advaita, I would advise you to not simply accept the superficial version of Advaita that is commonly found on the internet for it fails to answer fundamental questions. You should be serious enough to probe deeply - without settling for uneducated and unsatisfactory answers.

Good luck!

 

[Valjean]

Aren't you part of the very Maya that you are trying to exit?
You are the self. What does it mean by you merging with yourself?

He's the one asking, shivsomashekhar. Explain it to him.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Vedanta doesn't necessarily inform one's actions in earthly affairs.

I agree with you, Valjian, to some extent. Though the belief in non-duality does affect what we are doing. However, BhagawadGita is a better source if one is looking for what is to be done about worlldy affairs.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Aren't you part of the very Maya that you are trying to exit?
You are the self. What does it mean by you merging with yourself?

Yeah, a part of Aupmanyav (or you or any person) is a part of 'maya', the 'I', in reality there being no 'Aupmanyav'. But then, there is another part, what physically constitutes 'Aupmanyav", which is not part of 'maya', that which will lie on 'Aupmanyav's' funeral pyre, and which is Brahman. That has been divested of all that was 'Aupmanyav', it is not 'Aupmanyav's' any more, because there is no 'Aupmanyav' any more. That is Brahman, ready to change its form.

That is why Sankara said that he does not need Moksha or merging, because he is already that.
"na dharmo na cārtho na kāmo na mokşaḥ, cidānandarūpaḥ śivo'ham śivo'ham."
I have no duty (dharma), nor money (artha), nor desire (kāma), nor (even) liberation (mokṣa). I am the everblissful form of the eternal and the auspicious.
Atma Shatkam - Wikipedia

But sadhana (effort), manan (contemplation) and viveka (discrimination) are ways to understand the reality even while being in 'maya'.

 

[ajay0]

Hello All, I'm very new to the teachings of Advaita Vedanta, and Ramana Maharshi, so please be patient with me. I came across the following:

1. Ramana Maharshi's note to his mother: The Ordainer controls the fate of souls in accordance with their past deeds. Whatever is destined not to happen will not happen, try how hard you may. Whatever is destined to happen will happen, do what you may to stop it. This is certain. The best course, therefore, is to remain silent.
   
   
2. From 'Day by Day with Bhagavan'
   Question: "Are our prayers granted?"
   Bhagavan Sri Ramana : "Yes, they are granted. No thought will go in vain. Every thought will produce its effect some time or other. Thought-force will never go in vain."

My question is, how can both be true? Suppose a person wants a job at XYZ company, but it is not in his destiny. He still prays to God for it, and according to the above, God grants it.

Results also depend on correct thinking and correct action.

Unless you do the right things within yourself, the right things will not happen. - Sadghuru Jaggi Vasudev


In the first instance, Ramana's past good karmas enabled him to come to the point of self-inquiry and enlightenment.

Many pseudo-scholars and fraudsters, due to their bad karmas, live in delusion and perpetuate their delusion by perpetuating their ignorance to others too.

Ramana and the frauds did their quota of hard work, but Ramana's effort was wisely judged and directed, intelligent and calibrated.

Hence he attained enlightenment while fraudsters and pseudo-scholars keep on working hard like perpetually running rats on a wheel without any salvation at sight.

Ramana's mother wanted him to return home, but the enlightened Ramana was working under the direction of a higher intelligence, and he replied thus to his mother in a way she could understand.

As for the second point, thoughts and actions are considered to be potent in influencing situations and circumstances in Hinduism.

But not to the point that one can break the divine design or dharma, as demonic characters in the past like Ravana and Hiranyakashipu attempted to do under the influence of greed and hatred.

There is a mechanism for course correction in the divine scheme of things, and anything that poses a challenge to the divine design or disruptions are usually taken care of, so as to ensure order and harmony.

My question is, how can both be true? Suppose a person wants a job at XYZ company, but it is not in his destiny. He still prays to God for it, and according to the above, God grants it.

'Not in his destiny' simply means that he does not have enough karma to land the job. Perhaps a higher destiny or a better job awaits him.

Perhaps he need to work harder to gain the skill-sets for the job.

Both purushartha (self-effort) and kripa ( grace) is essential for success.

Kripa is gained to the extent there is self-effort and right attitude and mindset.

The right attitude and mindset means positivity and determination, faith in the divine and law of karma (cause-results).

 

[ajay0]

How does a follower of Advaita Vedanta react to some really great event? For example, winning the lottery or realizing a lifelong dream?

Being neutral is an easier attitude to adopt when one is sad, right?

A genuine and honest follower of Advaita Vedanta will be equanimous in all situations and circumstances.

It is only in such equanimity that the consciousness is pure and free from emotional agitations of cravings and aversions (that unbalance the mind).

Prajnanam Brahma. (Aitareya Upanishad 3.1.3) -- "Brahman is pure consciousness."

Equanimity of Mind is Yoga . ~ Krishna (BG 2:48)

Equanimous mind gives rise to a heightened awareness. - Sri Sri Ravi Shankar

 

[shivsomashekhar]

He's the one asking, shivsomashekhar. Explain it to him.

He is not asking. He has stated it as his goal and I am questioning it.

A genuine and honest follower of Advaita Vedanta will be equanimous in all situations and circumstances.

Forgive me for being blunt. This is exactly the "internet Advaita" nonsense that I am cautioning people against.

Try telling this to a parent whose child is on the deathbed. Try telling the parent that as a follower of Advaita, he/she is supposed to be equanimous because Krishna said so or Kabir said so. It is very easy to spout such ridiculous statements to look cool. But they do not apply to real life and therefore, have *zero* value.

Life comes with pain. There is no magic through which Advaita or Dvaita or v-Dvaita can eliminate pain. People react differently to pain than to pleasure. It is perfectly natural to do so and to tell them to go against this natural pattern is meaningless.

 

[ajay0]

Forgive me for being blunt. This is exactly the "internet Advaita" nonsense that I am cautioning people against.

I learnt about Advaita from enlightened masters, saints and scriptures, not the internet.

Try telling this to a parent whose child is on the deathbed. Try telling the parent that as a follower of Advaita, he/she is supposed to be equanimous because Krishna said so or Kabir said so. It is very easy to spout such ridiculous statements to look cool. But they do not apply to real life and therefore, have *zero* value.

As usual , you keep on highlighting your ignorance about vedic philosophy and misinterpreting the teachings rashly.

Calmness and mental equanimity is emphasized in all religious scriptures of the world. By not allowing the mind to go to excesses of mirth and grief, one ensures that the mind is balanced and capable of handling the situation instead of going to extreme emotional reactions or even suicide.

I know of young people who contracted Covid-19 and due to intense grief, demoralisation and shame, committed suicide, which is ridiculous. They should have equanimously accepted the situation and worked on their healing with a positive attitude, and get back with their daily lives again.

The teaching of equanimity as taught by Krishna is of immense importance even now to the world.

Life comes with pain. There is no magic through which Advaita or Dvaita or v-Dvaita can eliminate pain. People react differently to pain than to pleasure. It is perfectly natural to do so and to tell them to go against this natural pattern is meaningless.

Life comes with the opposites of pleasure and pain.

Intelligence lies in going beyond the pair of opposites by Self-awareness and mental equanimity rather than being swayed and whipped around by the opposites like a petty leaf in the winds.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Life comes with pain. There is no magic through which Advaita or Dvaita or v-Dvaita can eliminate pain. People react differently to pain than to pleasure. It is perfectly natural to do so and to tell them to go against this natural pattern is meaningless.

Shiva, people react differently in their ignorance. Some people will go mad with sorrow, some people will bear it and go to the next phase in life. That does not make 'advaita' false. You can perhaps do it with mental pain, they say some people win over bodily pain as well by practice. I will be able to bear bodily pain only up to certain extent. Yeah, to see children be in disease or die is painful for parents as well as others. We lost a brother in young age due to kidney infection (1968), he was just 15. Life is like that.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Forgive me for being blunt.

With all due respect, you'll forgive me if I don't.

As I began reading the post quoted below, all I could think is, "Here we go again with the condescending posts telling followers of Advaita Vedanta what Advaita Vedanta is or its practical applications in life."

This is exactly the "internet Advaita" nonsense that I am cautioning people against.

Try telling this to a parent whose child is on the deathbed. Try telling the parent that as a follower of Advaita, he/she is supposed to be equanimous because Krishna said so or Kabir said so. It is very easy to spout such ridiculous statements to look cool. But they do not apply to real life and therefore, have *zero* value.

Are you a follower Advaita Vedanta? Are you a parent who has lost a child? How many non-dual "oneness" experiences have you had?

Please tell us you have something experiential to bring to the table here and not just academics.

Life comes with pain.

And you have every right to continue your own suffering as you see fit. But to state...

There is no magic through which Advaita or Dvaita or v-Dvaita can eliminate pain.

...is nothing more than sharing your own perspective through avidya.

People react differently to pain than to pleasure. It is perfectly natural to do so and to tell them to go against this natural pattern is meaningless.

Well...not if they're asking if they can.

 

[Martin]

Hello All, I'm very new to the teachings of Advaita Vedanta, and Ramana Maharshi, so please be patient with me. I came across the following:

1. Ramana Maharshi's note to his mother: The Ordainer controls the fate of souls in accordance with their past deeds. Whatever is destined not to happen will not happen, try how hard you may. Whatever is destined to happen will happen, do what you may to stop it. This is certain. The best course, therefore, is to remain silent.
   
   
2. From 'Day by Day with Bhagavan'
   Question: "Are our prayers granted?"
   Bhagavan Sri Ramana : "Yes, they are granted. No thought will go in vain. Every thought will produce its effect some time or other. Thought-force will never go in vain."
   

My question is, how can both be true? Suppose a person wants a job at XYZ company, but it is not in his destiny. He still prays to God for it, and according to the above, God grants it.

I am very new to this subject, so I posted here. I understand that the ultimate goal of Advaita Vedanta is to rise above the maya of this world and recognize/merge with the self. I'm just trying to understand the basics.

Also, I came across this answer from an Advaita Vedanta expert in a Q&A on the subject of law of attraction here: Questions and Answers

Yes, following the 'law of attraction' may well help the person that you take yourself to be to achieve your ambitions but, as you saw in the book (How to Meet Yourself), you are then simply brought to the realisation that you are still unfulfilled. This is inevitably so because you are not the person. Who you appear to be in the dream may find the buried treasure and marry the beautiful girl but all is seen to be worthless when you wake up. And it is no different in so-called 'real' life, because that, too, is effectively a dream.

Again, my question is, how can the law of attraction, and unchangeable destiny (lack of free will) be true at the same time?

Thanks in advance!

PS- I really need to know the answer to this question, so I have also posted it in another forum.

I found if helpful to understand the big picture first, eg Advaita v. Dvaita interpretations. Reading the Upanishads has also been useful.
Personally I'm not convinced by the Advaita interpretation, I think there are too many assumptions involved. IMO it's not about taking on beliefs, but about investigation.

 

[atanu]

Hello All, I'm very new to the teachings of Advaita Vedanta, and Ramana Maharshi, so please be patient with me. I came across the following:

1. Ramana Maharshi's note to his mother: The Ordainer controls the fate of souls in accordance with their past deeds. Whatever is destined not to happen will not happen, try how hard you may. Whatever is destined to happen will happen, do what you may to stop it. This is certain. The best course, therefore, is to remain silent.
   
   
2. From 'Day by Day with Bhagavan'
   Question: "Are our prayers granted?"
   Bhagavan Sri Ramana : "Yes, they are granted. No thought will go in vain. Every thought will produce its effect some time or other. Thought-force will never go in vain."

My question is, how can both be true? Suppose a person wants a job at XYZ company, but it is not in his destiny. He still prays to God for it, and according to the above, God grants it.

The question has already been answered beautifully. Let me add a bit more.

The above two cited statements do not exhaust what Ramana says on the subject. Shri Ramana also says “If your prayer is seemingly not heard, know that it is not conducive to your wellbeing’ (I have paraphrased it). Shri Ramana also said “If one prays with full faith, the prayer will be granted”. The key point is ‘full faith’. If you have full faith you will pray “Let thy will be done”. Else one may pray for fulfilment of bad (or good) ego desire/s.

In the particular case, mother’s desire to get her son back is arrayed against a much bigger prarabdha of Ramana — that of being a world teacher.

Had mother prayed, for example, “Let me be near my enlightened son”, probably there would be different response.

...

I hope that the above is helpful.