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Featured Need advice, seeking, leaving LDS church.

Discussion in 'Seekers Circle' started by idea, Nov 19, 2017.

  1. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    if I my suggest.....

    I have been seeking God on my own for a long time
    that effort won't end until after my last breath

    but it seems you desire a circle of at least a few who can listen to you
    and you would do so....in return

    here you are
     
  2. GR8FL1

    GR8FL1 New Member

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    Idea, I really liked the things you loved about Mormonism. I am a Mormon, and those same things are very dear to me. When I think of the Savior's message, it is one of love and kindness and I know He does not intend for any one at all to be 'better than, or above another', those are purely mortal distinctions. We have to make 'short term, common sense' judgments sometimes, but we can' judge one another because we don't know what is in someone else's heart and mind. There are wonderful people in all churches, and in no church at all. I would be happy to help you if you think there is anything I can do.
     
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  3. GR8FL1

    GR8FL1 New Member

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    Idea, as far as LGBTQ goes, Dallin Oaks joined with others to get fair housing for everyone because there was apparently some discrimination. Someone's personal ideas and convictions are no basis for denying them anything, so I am glad that a group of decent people got together to help put things right.
     
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  4. GR8FL1

    GR8FL1 New Member

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    Idea, Prestor John, and Katzpur, I have read with interest your excellent posts. You have expressed your thoughts so well and very understandably. I had no difficulty at all following everything. Idea, nobody will be condemned to outer darkness because of ignorance. People who have ignorantly sinned will receive help to understand what true principles are. There must be many people over the years who have ignorantly sinned. I think of Paul, the mighty apostle. He was a strict Pharisee, so strict in fact that he was on his way to round up Christians, both men and women and children, when he had his life-changing experience. God would not hold against him all the people he had already persecuted. He was deeply into his own ideas and had no understanding of anything else. But, when he knew the gospel was true he worked at it with all his might. We can be like that too. When I joined the church in 1972 there was a convert from another area who had also joined. This sister had been a prostitute. Jesus suffered for her sins as well as those of everybody else, and nothing would be held against her. She started off after baptism pure and clean. Every time we take the sacrament with an honest and worthy heart, intending to do better next week than we have this week, we are renewing our baptismal covenants and are clean and fresh. Idea, I don't know you at all but I can see you are courageous and searching, and you care about others. If you have lived under tyranny or abuse of any kind, emotional or physical, know that we will be judged by how we treat others, not by how others treat us. Sometimes it is not always possible to get out of situations, but in the long run those who oppress others will be dealt with. I have family members whose 'adventures' would knock the socks off an ox! I have noticed how tender the Lord is to even those who are in deep sin. I think one of my family members just hasn't absorbed some of life's lessons, and I know that if this person showed a glimmer of hope and turned to the Lord the blessings of the gospel would begin to flow. It doesn't mean that consequences are always taken away, but it does mean that the shepherd is out there looking for us.
    I would be so glad to talk with you, it is wonderful to find people who think deeply and carefully. Now, Idea, I hope some people aren't in the Celestial Kingdom, if I can get there myself and family! I don't want to find some of the worst criminals there. BUT, if people repent they are no longer 'those types of people' so there is hope for everyone. I believe that some people struggle with unseen difficulties, it may be chemical imbalances, or other subtle things. God knows all that, too. I know that after all we can do, the enabling grace of the Savior will take us over the places we are unable to do for ourselves. I like that picture of the footsteps in the sand where Jesus carries us over the places where we just don't have the strength to go. ALL we are required to do is our BEST. Sometimes, just taking time to call someone who is a bit down is an act of kindness that will help build our own feelings of peace and comfort. When we have done our best with what we are asked to do, we are worthy and acceptable. As far as outer darkness goes, I think that will be those who had a perfect knowledge and then deliberately worked against it. It might be difficult for most people to qualify for that because we don't have a perfect knowledge, we have great faith, and knowledge of some things, but not everything. Someone like Satan might qualify. He has a perfect testimony, but not anything in the way of an actual conversion. Idea, hope I haven't said anything that sounds offensive, and I would so like to be able to help you understand how your obvious talents of independent thought and expression can be a great blessing to yourself and others. Each one of us is a convert, even if we come from pioneer stock and have been born into the church. Every day I think I have to re-convert on some things. However, I'm still in here pitching. Best wishes to you. Hope to hear from you and the others.
     
  5. sandy whitelinger

    sandy whitelinger Veteran Member

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    Black Southern Baptists. Uplifting music and spirit filled meetings.
     
  6. GR8FL1

    GR8FL1 New Member

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    Could we be focusing too much on worldly things and not enough on spiritual things? There is a balance in life, and I thought the story of Jesus and the wealthy ruler was very instructive. Sometimes we are so busy trying to identify the kingdom of God that we might miss having it in our lives now.
    Luke 18:18-27; JST Luke 18:27

    This wonderful lesson discusses riches, but riches are not the only deterrent to eternal life. Anything that is the main focus of our existence is a threat to our eternal life.

    An important person, a ruler, asked Jesus what he must do to inherit eternal life and Jesus replied that the ruler already knew the commandments, and detailed some of them. The ruler replied that he had kept them all since he was young. Next, Jesus told the ruler an IF, THEN, instruction, it was: IF the ruler sold all that he had, distributed the proceeds to the poor, and followed Jesus, THEN he would have treasure in heaven. (Luke 18:22-23) Of course, the ruler would not actually have to wait until after he died to have some of that treasure because we can have ‘heavenly treasure’ here on earth when we live the gospel. Just following Jesus, being in his circle of friends, and receiving spiritual instruction would have been treasure enough, but the ruler was sorrowful because he was very rich. Jesus used imagery in his comment that it would be easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God (Luke 18:25). Jesus’ listeners, of course, wondered who in the world could be saved, and the reply was that things that were impossible with men are possible with God (Luke 18:26-27).

    This is a very informative story. It deals with riches, but in fact anything that diverts our focus from what is spiritually important will weaken or prevent our entering the kingdom of God. This kingdom is being built here on the earth as the righteous obey the commandments and create a godly society. As is so true with most gospel blessings, they are available to us now, as we follow Jesus and create a heavenly environment. It goes without saying, though, that we can’t remove every evil and snare in our society, so much of the ‘heavenly kingdom’ will be within our hearts and minds, our homes, our church affiliations and so on. But, it is possible to live a higher and nobler life and in so doing avoid many of the pitfalls that could otherwise ensnare us.

    I like the verse from the Joseph Smith Translation of Luke 18:27 because it clarifies the real problem with riches: “And he said unto them, It is impossible for them who TRUST in riches, to enter into the kingdom of god; but he who forsaketh the things which are of this world, it is POSSIBLE WITH GOD, that he should enter in.” (Capitals added). It is not the riches themselves, because Jesus instructed the ruler to ‘distribute unto the poor,” it is making wealth the focus of our lives, although it could just as well be ambition or other overindulgence. In short, anything at all that is more important to us than seeking the kingdom of God will definitely keep us out of that kingdom. Well, it makes sense, if we don’t want that kingdom now, why should we want it when we leave this world? We would not be comfortable in an environment that did not have in it all the things we loved and wanted. Sadly, the riches cannot be transported to the next life.
     
  7. idea

    idea Well-Known Member

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    Thank you so much for your replies - sorry I am just now seeing this, life has been crazy busy, filled with adventure! I admit I have not yet found a new organized spiritual group - I have found what I will call disorganized unofficial groups though, and I am finding those to be the best kind of group. I am very fortunate to have a meaningful job with amazing diverse people from all over the world. Work has lifted me out of some of the darkness I was dragged into last year. I admit, I am a worry wort - I worry about others perhaps a little too much. I really could never be happy in a heaven if other "lower" kingdoms existed, I would constantly be worried about those who were not there. What will be will be in the eternities, I can only try to change my little corner of the world in this very short life here on earth. I do still hold beliefs - I believe in all that is good, kind, uplifting - in anything that supports, and uplifts. I have a hard time seeing the Judaeo-Christian G-d as being loving, although I do see Jesus as being loving. For now, until I know better, I will cling to anything that is good, and let principles, rather than organizations be my guiding light. I know that community is wonderful, and is a great place to learn - know the rainbow of levels of those who meet together - I am just re-defining things. "If your church is your g-d, there will be no g-d in your church" - I think a GA said that? I do not worship a church, do not worship a prophet - my top loyalty lies with whatever is good. That is a safe place for me right now, and seems to be working well.

    Thank you again for all the posts and kind words, you guys are the best, wish I had more time to spend on here!
     
  8. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    I wish you all the best in your search, idea.
     
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  9. GR8FL1

    GR8FL1 New Member

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    Oh, Idea, thanks so much for replying. I think you are on the right track with your concern for others but your kind heart and noble ideals are not shared by some people, and they will make decisions that will drag them down, both here in mortality and everywhere else as well. I know, though, exactly what you mean about the grief of thinking about those who are not experiencing the best in life. I have a family member who has made some poor choices and it is really painful for me to see some of the sad results. However, I love my family member and am very comforted by the vision of President Joseph F. Smith (D&C 138). A close reading comforts me because it looks as though everyone who repents will be saved. I think there will be time for my family member, even if it takes time after this life. I think of the spirit world as being a great opportunity for many to have another opportunity to put their lives in order. Idea, I don't know what happened to you last year, but I would be so happy to talk with you on this forum. I think it is very kind of you to be concerned about others, and I also think there is a time when each of us will suddenly understand the spiritual things and be ready to progress. Some people just don't seem to be as spiritually inclined as others, but in the end I think everyone will get all the chances they need to make better decisions. Hope to hear from you soon. Life does get hectic sometimes! Best wishes.
     
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