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My view on Jesus.

Colt

Well-Known Member
The Romans simply would not have done this. He was a criminal, **** on him, his value is to serve as a "scarecrow." The Romans wouldn't have bothered. They didn't care, everyone else was beneath them anyways.
It would be about like asking a hard on crime Conservative who's very pro-Gitmo to take it easy on Muslim prisoners during Ramadan. Not gonna happen. Bin Laden didn't get a proper Muslim burial. The Romans wouldn't have either and they certainly wouldn't have made exceptions for a Jew condemned as a terrorist and insurrectionist.
Amazing! The Atheist hecklers doubt much of what is said about Jesus...... yet you know exactly how the Romans thought in dealing with Jews.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Amazing! The Atheist hecklers doubt much of what is said about Jesus...... yet you know exactly how the Romans thought in dealing with Jews.

Amazing, christian hecklers doubt much about Roman dictatorship... Yet know exactly what these bible says about Jesus.

See how that works both ways?
 

Colt

Well-Known Member
To a degree and within the bounds of the law. Pilate was as much bound by Roman law as any other Roman citizen
Pilate was a "reluctant participant" in the execution of Jesus because Jesus hadn't offended Roman law. Under Roman occupation the Jews were forbidden from carrying out a crucifixion hence they had to talk Pilate into it. Pilate took the cowards route and asked the mob what they wanted, then washed his hands of the whole affair.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Pilate was a "reluctant participant" in the execution of Jesus because Jesus hadn't offended Roam law. Under Roman occupation the Jews were forbidden from carrying out a crucifixion hence they had to talk Pilate into it. Pilate took the cowards route and asked the mob what they wanted, then washed his hands of the whole affair.

Or so the bible says

Please note, there is no first or even third hand evidence for that.

What is known was that Pilate was governor at that time, there is evidence for this. Other than that ... Ziltch
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Amazing! The Atheist hecklers doubt much of what is said about Jesus...... yet you know exactly how the Romans thought in dealing with Jews.
Ah, yes. The Christian's first line of defense, to dismiss all detractors and criticism as being from atheists, even if you make this claim against those who aren't atheists.
 

Colt

Well-Known Member
Or so the bible says

Please note, there is no first or even third hand evidence for that.

What is known was that Pilate was governor at that time, there is evidence for this. Other than that ... Ziltch
Note, Celsus book doesn't exist at all.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Pilate was a "reluctant participant" in the execution of Jesus because Jesus hadn't offended Roman law. Under Roman occupation the Jews were forbidden from carrying out a crucifixion hence they had to talk Pilate into it. Pilate took the cowards route and asked the mob what they wanted, then washed his hands of the whole affair.
If Jesus was executed he very much did break Roman law (this was a point of conflict between the Romans who had the death penalty and the Germanic tribes who didn't). That he was crucified says very specific things about his status and crime. Pilate was Roman, bound to Roman law, and expected to enforce and uphold Roman law.
 

Colt

Well-Known Member
If Jesus was executed he very much did break Roman law (this was a point of conflict between the Romans who had the death penalty and the Germanic tribes who didn't). That he was crucified says very specific things about his status and crime. Pilate was Roman, bound to Roman law, and expected to enforce and uphold Roman law.


"The Jewish historian Josephus and philosopher Philo of Alexandria both mention incidents of tension and violence between the Jewish population and Pilate's administration. Many of these involve Pilate acting in ways that offended the religious sensibilities of the Jews."


" According to Josephus, Pilate's removal from office occurred because he violently suppressed an armed Samaritan movement at Mount Gerizim. He was sent back to Rome by the legate of Syria to answer for this before Tiberius, who, however, had died before he arrived. Nothing is known for certain about what happened to him after this."

Source Wiki
 

KerimF

Active Member
As ChristineM just explained, how crucifixion was done is well understood. When you claim that Jesus was likely seen as a political terrorist by the Romans you also confirm that he would have been left up on the cross. They would not have taken him down for a Hebrew holiday.

Truth be told, it doesn't matter for me how crucifixion was done. I didn't know Jesus based on any of his miracles; including how he was crucified and resurrected. I knew Him because it happens that He, unlike any other person in human history till our days, knows my deep nature and gave me the logical answers of all questions I was looking for about my existence and the real world into which I was brought temporarily. In other words, It happens I found myself a rational realistic man besides being spiritual. I am a man of reason not faith. This is why if the entire world may deny someday 'the Jesus' I know, I can't do the same unless I have to also deny my own set of knowledge, if not my own existence as well.

Naturally, I fully understand every time someone likes to talk about Jesus in a way that makes him feel better.
The following analogy may help explaining this.
Let me imagine I joined many forums in which all members of each of them insist that Pythagoras didn't exist or he wasn't a real scholar. Do you think I would follow the majority and cease using in my life the Pythagoras theorem of the right angle?
Similarly, I would keep taking advantage of all what I learnt from my perfect teacher (perfect, relative to my needs) even if no one in the world sees in him (Jesus) a teacher as I do.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Note, Celsus book doesn't exist at all.

oh he was there too. I thought celsus turned up about 150 years later, his work destroyed by christians so there are now no compete copies remaining


Or did you mean the the other celsus, the one who wrote on roman medicine?
 

Colt

Well-Known Member
oh he was there too. I thought celsus turned up about 150 years later, his work destroyed by christians so there are now no compete copies remaining


Or did you mean the the other celsus, the one who wrote on roman medicine?
....."
Tiberius Julius Abdes Pantera (/pænˈtɛrə/; c. 22 BC – AD 40) was a Roman soldier whose tombstone was found in Bingerbrück, Germany, in 1859. A historical connection from this soldier to Jesus has long been hypothesized by numerous scholars, based on the claim of the ancient Greek philosopher Celsus, who, according to Christian writer Origen in his "Against Celsus" (Greek Κατὰ Κέλσου, Kata Kelsou; Latin Contra Celsum), was the author of a work entitled The True Word (Greek Λόγος Ἀληθής, Logos Alēthēs).

Celsus' work was lost, but in Origen's account of it Jesus was depicted as the result of an affair between his mother Mary and a Roman soldier. He said she was "convicted of adultery and had a child by a certain soldier named Pantera".[1] Tiberius Pantera could have been serving in the region at the time of Jesus's conception.[1] Both the ancient Talmud and medieval Jewish writings and sayings reinforced this notion, referring to "Yeshu ben Pantera", which translates as "Jesus, son of Pantera". The hypothesis is considered unlikely by mainstream scholars given that there is little other evidence to support Pantera's paternity outside of the Greek and Jewish texts.[2][3]

Historically, the name Pantera is not unusual and was in use among Roman soldiers.[2][4]"

Source wiki
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
....."
Tiberius Julius Abdes Pantera (/pænˈtɛrə/; c. 22 BC – AD 40) was a Roman soldier whose tombstone was found in Bingerbrück, Germany, in 1859. A historical connection from this soldier to Jesus has long been hypothesized by numerous scholars, based on the claim of the ancient Greek philosopher Celsus, who, according to Christian writer Origen in his "Against Celsus" (Greek Κατὰ Κέλσου, Kata Kelsou; Latin Contra Celsum), was the author of a work entitled The True Word (Greek Λόγος Ἀληθής, Logos Alēthēs).

Celsus' work was lost, but in Origen's account of it Jesus was depicted as the result of an affair between his mother Mary and a Roman soldier. He said she was "convicted of adultery and had a child by a certain soldier named Pantera".[1] Tiberius Pantera could have been serving in the region at the time of Jesus's conception.[1] Both the ancient Talmud and medieval Jewish writings and sayings reinforced this notion, referring to "Yeshu ben Pantera", which translates as "Jesus, son of Pantera". The hypothesis is considered unlikely by mainstream scholars given that there is little other evidence to support Pantera's paternity outside of the Greek and Jewish texts.[2][3]

Historically, the name Pantera is not unusual and was in use among Roman soldiers.[2][4]"

Source wiki

Yes i know all this. Probably long before it hit Wikipedia. I have visited Bad Kreuznach and seen the gravestone

And celsus work was destroyed. So why did you bring him up?
 

KerimF

Active Member
I would be interested in the specific natural truths about life and the real world that would get someone killed if they spoke them in a world-wide platform.
And all of Christianity's current leaders are afraid or unwilling to speak these natural truths? But these natural truths are described in the NT.
My curiosity is quite piqued!

I don't know if it is wise talking about them in an international forum as here RF.
You know, telling a truth may also hurt some ordinary people as well and I try my best not to hurt the feelings of anyone.
After all, one of these natural facts (hence it applies in all times) is (given by an analogy):
"Don't cast your pearls before swine, because they will trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you".
Do you think this fact is not real?
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
"The Jewish historian Josephus and philosopher Philo of Alexandria both mention incidents of tension and violence between the Jewish population and Pilate's administration. Many of these involve Pilate acting in ways that offended the religious sensibilities of the Jews."


" According to Josephus, Pilate's removal from office occurred because he violently suppressed an armed Samaritan movement at Mount Gerizim. He was sent back to Rome by the legate of Syria to answer for this before Tiberius, who, however, had died before he arrived. Nothing is known for certain about what happened to him after this."

Source Wiki
You mean it turns out in the end Pilate was another Roman pigdog?
 
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