That is getting annoying to read over & over. Do you think perhaps you could not paste it all over the place?Latuwr said:
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My Paidagogos (Galatians 3:24)
- Thread starter Latuwr
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Hi Awoon,
Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
You asserted:
Laws are Laws.
This is what the Law of YAHWEH has to say about your assertion:
Deuteronomy 12:32
32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.
Adding or substracting from the Law of YAHWEH is not law. So all laws do not reach to the level of YAHWEH'S Law. All such deviations from HIS Law are rebellion and disobedience!
My Messiah Yahushua is the supreme ruler of the whole universe, Our King. His Law is the royal Law.
Do you desire to live, Awoon? If so, then you should seek to fulfill the Royal Law and repent of all sin against HIS Law.
Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr
Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
You asserted:
Laws are Laws.
This is what the Law of YAHWEH has to say about your assertion:
Deuteronomy 12:32
32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.
Adding or substracting from the Law of YAHWEH is not law. So all laws do not reach to the level of YAHWEH'S Law. All such deviations from HIS Law are rebellion and disobedience!
My Messiah Yahushua is the supreme ruler of the whole universe, Our King. His Law is the royal Law.
Do you desire to live, Awoon? If so, then you should seek to fulfill the Royal Law and repent of all sin against HIS Law.
Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr
Yes it is cause no one is getting any blessings through yeshua.
Now yer just parroting words from some religious opinion.
I've never sinned so you've already broken his law by accusing me. Sounds like the accuser the Devil.
Hi Shermana,
Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
You questioned:
"But it seems that Galatians is about a lot more than just circumcision, but about abandoning the belief in obedience to the Law altogether as a requirement of living, no?"
The Apostle Paul supported the Law:
Romans 3:31
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? ELOHIM forbid: yea, we establish the law.
The Law pointedly says this:
Leviticus 18:5
5 Ye shall therefore keep my statutes, and my judgments: which if a man do, he shall live in them: I am YAHWEH.
Why is it, Shermana, that you do contradict Paul's stated position and abandon his belief that life comes through obedience to the Law?
Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr
Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
You questioned:
"But it seems that Galatians is about a lot more than just circumcision, but about abandoning the belief in obedience to the Law altogether as a requirement of living, no?"
The Apostle Paul supported the Law:
Romans 3:31
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? ELOHIM forbid: yea, we establish the law.
The Law pointedly says this:
Leviticus 18:5
5 Ye shall therefore keep my statutes, and my judgments: which if a man do, he shall live in them: I am YAHWEH.
Why is it, Shermana, that you do contradict Paul's stated position and abandon his belief that life comes through obedience to the Law?
Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr
Shermana
Heretic
Okay, I can thoroughly appreciate you believing that Paul upheld the commandments and did not teach that the Law was undone, I pray for the day that Christians agree with this and stop living the antinomian lie. I'd like to see how well you fare in a serious debate with other Christians on how to read Paul.
But there's no way I can possibly read Galatians as saying that the Law itself is still binding, and that is part of why I hate Galatians with a passion.
Hi Awoon,
Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
I am not alone in my accusation that you are a sinner. My mentor, the Apostle Paul, said this about mankind:
Romans 3:9-12
9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after ELOHIM.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Am I to believe, Awoon, that you yourself have proven to be the exception?
Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr
Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
I am not alone in my accusation that you are a sinner. My mentor, the Apostle Paul, said this about mankind:
Romans 3:9-12
9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after ELOHIM.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Am I to believe, Awoon, that you yourself have proven to be the exception?
Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
Hi Latuwr,
You can speak the name of God in which ever language suits you best. If you are a hebrew speaking person, to call him Yahweh is good and proper...our hebrew speaking congregations call him Yahweh btw. Jehovah is the english form and has been the english form for several centuries.
The important thing is not how we pronounce Gods name, but how we honor it.
Hi Pegg,
Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
Do both Jews and Gentiles honor ELOHIM'S name through the sin of coveting of that which belongs to his or her neighbor?
It is both written and spoken:
Exodus 20:17
17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
Is it ok, Pegg, for Jehovah's Witnesses, to covet?
Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr
Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
Do both Jews and Gentiles honor ELOHIM'S name through the sin of coveting of that which belongs to his or her neighbor?
It is both written and spoken:
Exodus 20:17
17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
Is it ok, Pegg, for Jehovah's Witnesses, to covet?
Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr
Hi Shermana,
Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
You wrote:
"But there's no way I can possibly read Galatians as saying that the Law itself is still binding, and that is part of why I hate Galatians with a passion."
Actually, Shermana, I understand your passion! I struggled mightily with the writings of my mentor, the Apostle Paul. I could not understand how he could possibly claim to establish the Law by speaking and writing against the physical fulfillment of the Law.
This seemed to me to be the greatest of contradictions. How in all the world can someone like Paul who seems to speak against the physical fulfillment of the Law, how can such an apparent antinomian be himself holy and righteous and good? How can such a one who speaks against the physical fulfillment of the Law establish the Law?
The answer comes when we come to an understanding that the Law is also spiritual (see Romans 7:14).
Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr
Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
You wrote:
"But there's no way I can possibly read Galatians as saying that the Law itself is still binding, and that is part of why I hate Galatians with a passion."
Actually, Shermana, I understand your passion! I struggled mightily with the writings of my mentor, the Apostle Paul. I could not understand how he could possibly claim to establish the Law by speaking and writing against the physical fulfillment of the Law.
This seemed to me to be the greatest of contradictions. How in all the world can someone like Paul who seems to speak against the physical fulfillment of the Law, how can such an apparent antinomian be himself holy and righteous and good? How can such a one who speaks against the physical fulfillment of the Law establish the Law?
The answer comes when we come to an understanding that the Law is also spiritual (see Romans 7:14).
Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
of course not
Jesus taught love of neighbour...and coveting is something unloving toward our neigbour. The Christian writings also uphold Gods laws...so christians, while not bound to adhere to the laws of Moses, are bound to adhere to the laws of Christ:
Luke 12:15*Then he said to them: “Keep YOUR eyes open and guard against every sort of covetousness, because even when a person has an abundance his life does not result from the things he possesses.”
Colosians 3:5*Deaden, therefore, YOUR body members that are upon the earth as respects fornication, uncleanness, sexual appetite, hurtful desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. 6*On account of those things the wrath of God is coming. 7*In those very things YOU, too, once walked when YOU used to live in them. 8*But now really put them all away from YOU, wrath, anger, badness, abusive speech, and obscene talk out of YOUR mouth. 9*Do not be lying to one another. Strip off the old personality with its practices, 10*and clothe yourselves with the new [personality], which through accurate knowledge is being made new according to the image of the One who created it, 11*where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, foreigner, Scyth′i·an, slave, freeman, but Christ is all things and in all.
The laws of moses are expressed in the Christian scriptures... this is why Christians do not need to become adherents of the mosaic law... we already adhere to such laws through the teachings of Jesus.
We follow Jesus because it is through him that sins are forgiven. The mosaic law requires animal sacrifices for forgiveness of sins... if we have Jesus as our sin offering, then why do we need to keep following Moses? We have moved onto to a better law, a more complete law, for the requirements of complete atonement have been provided by Jesus. Under Moses, there is only partial temporary atonement for sins.... but through Christ's sacrifice, a complete atonement has taken place for those who adhere to it.
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Hi Pegg,
Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
You answered:
"The Christian writings also uphold Gods laws...so christians, while not bound to adhere to the laws of Moses, are bound to adhere to the laws of Christ:"
I am sorry, Pegg, but the Apostle Paul in speaking about the commandment not to covet did not say that this commandment originated from any law of My Messiah Yahushua. According to Paul, the command against coveting originates from the Law of Moses:
Romans 7:7
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? ELOHIM forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Paul does not attribute the commandment against coveting to any law of My Messiah Yahushua. Rather, Paul attributes that commandment against coveting to Moses. Do you yourself as a witness accept that the Law of Moses originates and prohibits covetousness? If so, why do you claim just like all other lawless Christians that you are somehow not under the Law of Moses?
Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr
Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
You answered:
"The Christian writings also uphold Gods laws...so christians, while not bound to adhere to the laws of Moses, are bound to adhere to the laws of Christ:"
I am sorry, Pegg, but the Apostle Paul in speaking about the commandment not to covet did not say that this commandment originated from any law of My Messiah Yahushua. According to Paul, the command against coveting originates from the Law of Moses:
Romans 7:7
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? ELOHIM forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Paul does not attribute the commandment against coveting to any law of My Messiah Yahushua. Rather, Paul attributes that commandment against coveting to Moses. Do you yourself as a witness accept that the Law of Moses originates and prohibits covetousness? If so, why do you claim just like all other lawless Christians that you are somehow not under the Law of Moses?
Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
Laturwr,
Paul was a jew, he had been raised by the mosiac law as was Jesus himself. Jesus upheld the law of moses because they were the commands, not of Moses but of God.
The same commands of God came through the mouth of all his prophets including Jesus. But that doesnt mean that we must continue with the law of moses...it was for a specific time and specific people just as Gods law to Noah was for a specific time and specific people.
You can worship God with the teachings of Jesus or Moses... but salvation is through Jesus, so why would you revert to a law which is obsolete for salvation?
Shermana
Heretic
Who said it's obsolete? Where did Jesus say you didn't have to actually obey Moses to be saved? What does that have to do with what Paul said about coveting? Where does Jesus forbid coveting? Are we now free to covet our neighbor's belongings?
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
John 11:25,*26 Jesus responded: I am the resurrection and the life. He that exercises faith in me, even though he dies, will come to life; and everyone that is living and exercises faith in me will never die at all. Do you believe this?
John 5:24*Most truly I say to YOU, He that hears my word and believes him that sent me has everlasting life, and he does not come into judgment but has passed over from death to life
John 3:16 For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life
Life and salvation is through Jesus, not Moses. So we dont need the mosaic law to obtain salvation... we only need to follow Jesus.
Never did God say that it is Moses who grants salvation, or Moses who will resurrect the dead...
Hi Pegg,
Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
You wrote:
"the law of moses...it was for a specific time and specific people just as Gods law to Noah was for a specific time and specific people."
Are you sure about that? ELOHIM commanded Noah:
Genesis 9:4
4 But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.
Does this commandment against eating blood still apply to Jehovah's Witnesses today? Will you yourself, Pegg, eat blood?
If you and other Witnesses still follow the Noachide restriction against eating the flesh of a live animal because of the blood which is in that flesh, do you want me to think that this Law to Noah no longer applies to all of us?
Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr
Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
You wrote:
"the law of moses...it was for a specific time and specific people just as Gods law to Noah was for a specific time and specific people."
Are you sure about that? ELOHIM commanded Noah:
Genesis 9:4
4 But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.
Does this commandment against eating blood still apply to Jehovah's Witnesses today? Will you yourself, Pegg, eat blood?
If you and other Witnesses still follow the Noachide restriction against eating the flesh of a live animal because of the blood which is in that flesh, do you want me to think that this Law to Noah no longer applies to all of us?
Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
I was actually referring to Gods requirements that Noah build the ark...requirements which were specific to him and no one else.
Isreal had the requirements of the mosaic law which were specific to them and no one else. For example, it included agricultural laws such as allowing a field to go uncultivated every 7 years.... do you think God expects people who are not agriculturalists (ie city dwellers who do no cultivating) to carry out that law? Or what about the requirements to tithe to the Levites & Priests.... to live by the mosiac law, I would need to do that as an obligation, but can i fulfill that obligation of the law?
Regarding blood, that is also specified in christian law:
Acts 15:28*For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to YOU, except these necessary things, 29*to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication
So as I said, I dont need the mosaic law to obey Gods law about blood because it is also a christian law.
Shermana
Heretic
I fail to see how that directly refutes what Jesus said about it being necessary to follow the commandments. He was quite clear in Luke 16:18-31 that those who refuse to listen to Moses and the prophets will wind up in hell, and I don't remember Moses saying anything about an undeniable Messianic prophecy which Jesus would be fulfilling. He was clearly talking about Moses's teachings and the Prophets upholding them. Especially in relation to the verses that precede it, the context should be quite clear to anyone not cherry picking.
Hi Pegg,
Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
You wrote:
"I was actually referring to Gods requirements that Noah build the ark...requirements which were specific to him and no one else."
How do you know that a spiritual ark has not already been built by My Messiah Yahushua acccording to the exact specifications given to Noah? I know full well that Jehovah's Witnesses have two hopes. You make a distinction amongst yourself exactly like Noah was required to do concerning clean and unclean animals. If My Messiah Yahushua has built an ark, how do you know, Pegg, whether you will be admitted as a clean or unclean animal?
Pegg, the Law is spiritual:
Romans 7:14
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
May you be open to looking at the spiritual side of the Law in order that you might grow in understanding and thus be saved from death.
Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr
Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
You wrote:
"I was actually referring to Gods requirements that Noah build the ark...requirements which were specific to him and no one else."
How do you know that a spiritual ark has not already been built by My Messiah Yahushua acccording to the exact specifications given to Noah? I know full well that Jehovah's Witnesses have two hopes. You make a distinction amongst yourself exactly like Noah was required to do concerning clean and unclean animals. If My Messiah Yahushua has built an ark, how do you know, Pegg, whether you will be admitted as a clean or unclean animal?
Pegg, the Law is spiritual:
Romans 7:14
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
May you be open to looking at the spiritual side of the Law in order that you might grow in understanding and thus be saved from death.
Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
Deut 18:15*A prophet from your own midst, from your brothers, like me, is what Jehovah your God will raise up for youto him YOU people should listen 16*in response to all that you asked of Jehovah your God in Ho′reb on the day of the congregation, saying, Do not let me hear again the voice of Jehovah my God, and this great fire do not let me see anymore, that I may not die. 17*At that Jehovah said to me, They have done well in speaking what they did. 18*A prophet I shall raise up for them from the midst of their brothers, like you; and I shall indeed put my words in his mouth, and he will certainly speak to them all that I shall command him. 19*And it must occur that the man who will not listen to my words that he will speak in my name, I shall myself require an account from him.
Jesus is this prophet whom Moses said that we must listen to. The law of God is expressed through Jesus and if we dont abide by the law according to Jesus words, then we will be called to account.
Jesus never said that we must continue to adhere to the requirments set forth by Moses... he said we must live by the 'commandments' he himself set forth:
Matthew 24:19*Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20*teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded YOU.