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Muslims:Proof of hijab

beenie

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
since hijab seems to be a favorite topic with both Muslims and non-Muslims...i want to know:

where EXACTLY in the Qur'an does it explicitly state that women MUST cover their hair? i know everyone will quote the same ayahs i've read over and over again...but i don't want those to be used as proof. they're vague and added to with words in parentheses, ie (hair covering, scarves, over the head) etc, but not clearly stated in the Qur'an. Khimar has been discussed to pieces and it simply means "cover" but Allah doesn't say pull your khimar over your head and cover your hair, He says pull it over your bosom. why aren't there all these words in parentheses with regards to other laws? why didn't Allah say "cover your hair...all of it, with a khimar"?

don't quote Hadith, i want it from the Qur'an. reason? because i don't think that Allah forgot to be specific. if Allah wanted hijab to be practiced 100%, His ayah would be revealed without any ambiguity or need for human translation. my stance is that there is wiggle room in this area and we people/scholars have added on based on Hadith and Hadith alone.

thoughts? i'm really struggling with this hijab thing...i'm not trying to incite, and please don't patronize me. i'm a big girl and i don't need to be preached to. :)
 

neves

Active Member
okay lets try this... something simple to start with... you say the "Khimar" is a covering and that the Quran says to use it to also cover the bosoms and such... so then what is it originally covering before it is used to cover the bosom?
 

fullyveiled muslimah

Evil incarnate!
I'm sorry, but saying that hijab is not explicit in the Qur'an is like saying salaat is not explicit, so I don't necessarily have to make it five times like the scholars say I must. If you were just covering your bosom, your basic old shirt does that. I'm pretty sure the women during the time of rasulullah (saw) had some form of shirt or dress that covered their bosoms already. The ayat that you don't want to read anymore specifically mentions a woman's clothing as part of modesty. If clothing had absolutely no bearing on anything having to with Islam, or Allah had absolutely no concern over it He would not have mentioned clothing at all. Period. Why would Allah just tell women to wear clothes? Weren't we wearing clothes already?

Listen, I hear the complaint from women all the time about hijab and why do we have to wear that, etc etc. What gets lost is the greater picture. The road towards piety and nearness to Allah is paved with the small bricks. The bricks individually do not make a road, but together the build it. These so called small things like wearing hijab do not appear to have the same weightiness in our quest to purify our hearts as maybe giving sadaqa or helping the homeless or something like that. However, it is just as important as those "bigger" things. Think about it, if we can't obey Allah in a small matter, how can we obey Allah in a larger matter? If you mismanage $50, then how can you be expected to manage $5000 properly?

After all that sister, take it off it you don't believe that Allah ordered it. If you truly believe that there does not exist a specific dress code for Muslims (because men are included even though we don't discuss them nearly as much), then you don't have to ask us to prove to you what you already think you know. If it has gotten to you that bad, then there really is no amount of discourse that will change your mind. If you really want the answer you ask Allah. If you truly believe in your heart that hijab as a clothing is useless then remove it. It's really just that simple. When I became convinced of the obligation to wear it, I didn't have to ask people's opinion on the matter. I just wore it.
 

Badran

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I'm sorry, but saying that hijab is not explicit in the Qur'an is like saying salaat is not explicit

As i understand, she's talking about the headscarf only, not hijab. As in not the idea of wearing modestly according to certain specifics, but the idea that supposedly it is mentioned clearly in the Quran that women should cover their hair. I don't think its so obvious or clear at all in the Quran that women should cover their hair.

Think about it, if we can't obey Allah in a small matter, how can we obey Allah in a larger matter? If you mismanage $50, then how can you be expected to manage $5000 properly?

She isn't unable to obey Allah in a small matter, she believes Allah hasn't required wearing a headscarf.

Another thing, if she was indeed unable to wear a headscarf while knowing that Allah has commanded it, doesn't mean she couldn't do bigger things. As your example is dealing with the same kind of thing, while in this case its two different things. In other words, your comparison concludes that if someone can't manage $50, he wouldn't be able to manage $5000. Sure, but this is different. As wearing a headscarf and praying for example, are two different types of things. So, her inability to do one doesn't mean she couldn't do the other.

After all that sister, take it off it you don't believe that Allah ordered it. If you truly believe that there does not exist a specific dress code for Muslims (because men are included even though we don't discuss them nearly as much), then you don't have to ask us to prove to you what you already think you know. If it has gotten to you that bad, then there really is no amount of discourse that will change your mind. If you really want the answer you ask Allah. If you truly believe in your heart that hijab as a clothing is useless then remove it. It's really just that simple. When I became convinced of the obligation to wear it, I didn't have to ask people's opinion on the matter. I just wore it.

Like i said (according to what she told me in another thread) she's not talking about hijab, but the headscarf.

If its so obvious we should be able to prove it. I mean us talking about it as it being obvious doesn't make it so. And in the end if she is not convinced thats up to her of course.
 
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Starsoul

Truth
I'll very much agree with the above 'fully veiled muslimah's answer, its right at the spot! Leaves little to be added to. Just something that I'd like to add. I'll quote one ayah here, i do not remember its place but it goes like

' Have you seen a person who worships his desires? (nafs) and asks his nafs to lead him?'

That translates, that a person, when forgetting the substance of kalima which states that he submits entirely to the will and command of Allah and the belief in the Prophet Muhammad SAWW, CANNOT question the 'centre of his desires' to lead him to think if the command of Allah is in line with my liking or am i not liking it, does it suit me, my life style? hence, sometimes he starts feeling that maybe Allah did not say it, and its just a vague thought propagated by the Prophet SAW and followed by the Mothers of the ummah and the women who are the role models for the entire Muslim women. What do you say?

Secondly, to denounce Hadees and not rendering it important is as close to totally denying the Prophecy. You must be clear in your concepts of religion to proceed any further in it. It is said by Allah in the Sura Baqarah " And those who follow the Prophet (Muhammad SAWW) Follow me, and those who do not follow the Prophet, do not follow me (God)."

And theres a Hadees as " Those who do not care to follow my sunnah can go die a ( pagan )jew or (pagan) christian". This is such a strong statement about people who think hadees is not an important fact of Islam and the prophet (saw) actually termed such a person's deen null &void, hence he is not a muslim who does not follow sunah.

A specific reply to a specific question like yours that can only be, That Allah has been specific in this ayat. He has said, "

" O Prophet! Tell thy wives and daughters, and the believing women, that they should hang (cast) their outer garments (jilbabs)over their persons (when outside): that is most convenient, that they should be known (as respectable women) and not molested and pestered about. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
"

In this ayah, the Prophet SAWW is being told to tell his wives, the daughters and the believing women to HANG a cloth ,a word jilbab is used in arabic in this ayat for cloth, and surprise surprise, jilbab was the name of the long chaadar (large piece of cloth some women used to wear over themselves to cover themselves when they went out, even before the ayah came, the jilbab was being used in the arab scoiety, but not specifically, probably for protection from heat or other reasons.)

Now, Allah knows that women wore clothes even at that time, so jilbab was and is the extra cloth to cover youself so that you may not be recognized, in shape and form as women's cloth cling to them making their curves prominent.

And the word 'hang the cloth, (jilbab) 'ABOVE you' is used which can imply the few things..tell me what is above you? What is the top most part of you as a human being? Head right? If the ayah had said something about 'below you', would you not have understood? If below the neck was to be said, why would 'above you' be used?

If logic is to be used, only one explanation comes to the mind, since logic is whats gotten into you right now :). Keep one thing in mind, Faith begins where Logic ends. So dont trust your logic all the time to provide you with the passion that only faith can offer. The word 'believers' comes from faith, not from logic,otherwise wise people or intellectuals would have been adressed to in the Quran, which is not the case. Not that they haven't been mentioned, but not in the terms of believers.

Then, since the demarcation of 'sattar' is that only the face and hands of a woman can be shown,and since in umrah and haj during ibaddaat a woman is to keep her face open, Scholars permit the scarf, but it has to be rememberd that the Prophet's wives hid their face with a cloth as soon as the ayat came, so if the Prophet's wives did not understand Islam well, who did?

There is no compulsion in deen, But there are things that I sometimes find hard to do, but yet i do them, because i know its either nafs or the satan trying to stop me from Allah's command, Not all virtues feel sweet in the beginning, because somethings are hard to change in ourselves as we have so grown used to our non-Islamic self over the time, but with time and with help from Allah SWT you must seek Allah's help and ask Him to make it easier for you to follow that is desired by Him, because Its a fact that some things just do get to your head and nag and confuse you enough to doubt your own actions even if they are in line with Islam.

Quoting what i read about nafs somewhere, ' Our self consists of a conglomeration of wants, desires, impulses, habits, fears, angers, appetites, tendencies and an Ego that constructs a self image that, it then seeks to protect and maintain any way it can - even by distorting the true nature of the realities around it.
It is commanded by a host of impulses and desires. It wanders distracted or seeks out satisfaction of its wants and justifies its behavior to itself so that it can continue doing what it does, it tends to trap itself in " safe' (self protective), or habitual, or addictive behaviours.

At this stage the person is like a kingdom in chaos where the citizens are habits, desires, fears, moods, impulses, and egoism and all clamour for attention and satisfaction and the self is a slave to them pulled this way and that in response to their demands.

Only Allah Knows best, and true guidance only comes from Him, whenever you are confused about something, you have to sincerely ask for His guidance only, and He always points out the truth to you. There is a reason that there were so many duas that the prophet used to recite and told others to recite as well, because the chances of being swayed into confusion by the shaitan is with us every step of the way. And The more stronger you will try to come towards deen, the stronger, more cunning shaitan is affixed with you, but those who are stead fast and keep close to Allah win over their shaitan and when once he's beaten, he seldom tries to push you again. Sincere prayers for you. keep the Faith!
 

Starsoul

Truth
And to keep away from the satanic whispers and waswasay( false worries and twisted, mindless logical inferences) Sura Ikhlass ,Sura Naas and Sura Falaq are ABSOLUTELY Mandatory for every Muslim to read EVERYDAY, when he wakes up, goes out and before he goes to sleep. Try it, and you'll see the difference soon InshAllah. :)
 

beenie

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I'm sorry, but saying that hijab is not explicit in the Qur'an is like saying salaat is not explicit, so I don't necessarily have to make it five times like the scholars say I must. If you were just covering your bosom, your basic old shirt does that. I'm pretty sure the women during the time of rasulullah (saw) had some form of shirt or dress that covered their bosoms already. The ayat that you don't want to read anymore specifically mentions a woman's clothing as part of modesty. If clothing had absolutely no bearing on anything having to with Islam, or Allah had absolutely no concern over it He would not have mentioned clothing at all. Period. Why would Allah just tell women to wear clothes? Weren't we wearing clothes already?

from what i know about the people before Islam, they dressed quite differently than after Islam.

Listen, I hear the complaint from women all the time about hijab and why do we have to wear that, etc etc. What gets lost is the greater picture. The road towards piety and nearness to Allah is paved with the small bricks. The bricks individually do not make a road, but together the build it. These so called small things like wearing hijab do not appear to have the same weightiness in our quest to purify our hearts as maybe giving sadaqa or helping the homeless or something like that. However, it is just as important as those "bigger" things. Think about it, if we can't obey Allah in a small matter, how can we obey Allah in a larger matter? If you mismanage $50, then how can you be expected to manage $5000 properly?

what? i understand your analogy about the foundation to piety, but i don't understand what you are talking about with the $50 and $5000. :confused: if i understand what you are saying...that if i can't wear the headscarf, how can i practice the other parts of Islam...i don't think one is mutually exclusive of the other. and that is one of the biggest problems i have with SOME people who strongly advocate the headscarf. it's like if you don't wear it, you're not a "real" Muslim. who decides that? you? nope, Allah does. He sees ALL of my deeds, not JUST if i wear a headscarf.

After all that sister, take it off it you don't believe that Allah ordered it. If you truly believe that there does not exist a specific dress code for Muslims (because men are included even though we don't discuss them nearly as much), then you don't have to ask us to prove to you what you already think you know. If it has gotten to you that bad, then there really is no amount of discourse that will change your mind. If you really want the answer you ask Allah. If you truly believe in your heart that hijab as a clothing is useless then remove it. It's really just that simple. When I became convinced of the obligation to wear it, I didn't have to ask people's opinion on the matter. I just wore it.

i have made dua to Allah, and i really haven't gotten any enlightenment one way or another. it may be simple to you, but sister...please remember that we all struggle with different issues. wearing the headscarf may have been a "no-brainer" for you, but i know many who struggle with it each and every day...myself included. it's this exact "preachiness" that turns us against each other. if i've misunderstood you, i'm sorry...but i'm not a defensive person, and i feel like i'm being belittled. :eek:

oh, and...salah is made very clear. covering your HAIR isn't.

As i understand, she's talking about the headscarf only, not hijab. As in not the idea of wearing modestly according to certain specifics, but the idea that supposedly it is mentioned clearly in the Quran that women should cover their hair. I don't think its so obvious or clear at all in the Quran that women should cover their hair.

yes, i am speaking about the headscarf; i thought i was clear in my post, but if i wasn't, i apologize. here in America, most people refer to "hijab" as the headscarf, and jilbab/abaya/burqa as the overcoat/niqab.

She isn't unable to obey Allah in a small matter, she believes Allah hasn't required wearing a headscarf.

thank you. :) i'm not sure what she meant by that either, but i don't consider not wearing the headscarf rejecting Islam in any way shape or form. i don't get how something so important is left so vague...i think there is room for interpretation.

Another thing, if she was indeed unable to wear a headscarf while knowing that Allah has commanded it, doesn't mean she couldn't do bigger things. As your example is dealing with the same kind of thing, while in this case its two different things. In other words, your comparison concludes that if someone can't manage $50, he wouldn't be able to manage $5000. Sure, but this is different. As wearing a headscarf and praying for example, are two different types of things. So, her inability to do one doesn't mean she couldn't do the other.

exactly. :yes:

Like i said (according to what she told me in another thread) she's not talking about hijab, but the headscarf.

If its so obvious we should be able to prove it. I mean us talking about it as it being obvious doesn't make it so. And in the end if she is not convinced thats up to her of course.

this is the crux of my post, and the vague ayah you're referring to doesn't clearly state anything regarding covering your hair. i'm not saying hijab (headscarf) doesn't EXIST...i'm asking why it is not CLEARLY specified. so many other commands are unquestionable and crystal clear.
 

neves

Active Member
As i understand, she's talking about the headscarf only, not hijab. As in not the idea of wearing modestly according to certain specifics, but the idea that supposedly it is mentioned clearly in the Quran that women should cover their hair. I don't think its so obvious or clear at all in the Quran that women should cover their hair.



She isn't unable to obey Allah in a small matter, she believes Allah hasn't required wearing a headscarf.

Another thing, if she was indeed unable to wear a headscarf while knowing that Allah has commanded it, doesn't mean she couldn't do bigger things. As your example is dealing with the same kind of thing, while in this case its two different things. In other words, your comparison concludes that if someone can't manage $50, he wouldn't be able to manage $5000. Sure, but this is different. As wearing a headscarf and praying for example, are two different types of things. So, her inability to do one doesn't mean she couldn't do the other.



Like i said (according to what she told me in another thread) she's not talking about hijab, but the headscarf.

If its so obvious we should be able to prove it. I mean us talking about it as it being obvious doesn't make it so. And in the end if she is not convinced thats up to her of course.

I am pretty sure Hijab and Headscarf is the samething...
 

Cypress

Dragon Mom
Perhaps that whole hijab thing is a misunderstanding, same way as with the Huris who do not mean virgins but white grapes?
There is a theory that that the Koran at its inception was drawn from Christian Syro-Aramaic texts.
From here:
The Quranic passage in Sura 24 (al-núr, "The Light"), verse 31, reads in Arabic "wa-l-yaDribna bi-KHumuri-hinna ɛalâ juyûbi-hinna", and is traditionally translated as saying that women "should draw
their veils over their bosoms" (Yusufali interpretation).
It has been interpreted as command for women to cover themselves, and is used in support of hijab.
In Luxenberg's Syro-Aramaic reading, the verse instead commands women to "snap their belts around their waists."
Luxenberg argues that this is a much more plausible reading than the Arabic one. The belt was a sign of chastity in the Christian world.
Also, Jesus puts on an apron before he washes the disciples feet at the last supper.
 

Rainbow Mage

Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
The Quran doesn't specify what kind of head covering. It could be a woman's hair, or it could be a hat like Christian women often used to wear. The Hijab is a cultural Arabic covering, but no where is the idea that Islam must be practised according to Arabia's culture, especially if it's supposed to be a universal religion, but instead I see a lot of Pan-Arabism in Islam.
 

fullyveiled muslimah

Evil incarnate!
from what i know about the people before Islam, they dressed quite differently than after Islam.



what? i understand your analogy about the foundation to piety, but i don't understand what you are talking about with the $50 and $5000. :confused: if i understand what you are saying...that if i can't wear the headscarf, how can i practice the other parts of Islam...i don't think one is mutually exclusive of the other. and that is one of the biggest problems i have with SOME people who strongly advocate the headscarf. it's like if you don't wear it, you're not a "real" Muslim. who decides that? you? nope, Allah does. He sees ALL of my deeds, not JUST if i wear a headscarf.



i have made dua to Allah, and i really haven't gotten any enlightenment one way or another. it may be simple to you, but sister...please remember that we all struggle with different issues. wearing the headscarf may have been a "no-brainer" for you, but i know many who struggle with it each and every day...myself included. it's this exact "preachiness" that turns us against each other. if i've misunderstood you, i'm sorry...but i'm not a defensive person, and i feel like i'm being belittled. :eek:

oh, and...salah is made very clear. covering your HAIR isn't.



yes, i am speaking about the headscarf; i thought i was clear in my post, but if i wasn't, i apologize. here in America, most people refer to "hijab" as the headscarf, and jilbab/abaya/burqa as the overcoat/niqab.



thank you. :) i'm not sure what she meant by that either, but i don't consider not wearing the headscarf rejecting Islam in any way shape or form. i don't get how something so important is left so vague...i think there is room for interpretation.



exactly. :yes:



this is the crux of my post, and the vague ayah you're referring to doesn't clearly state anything regarding covering your hair. i'm not saying hijab (headscarf) doesn't EXIST...i'm asking why it is not CLEARLY specified. so many other commands are unquestionable and crystal clear.



Ahh, I haven't been here for quite some time, so you are not familiar with my way of posting. I apologize for that, however with that said I'm not preaching to you. I never belittled you, and I never said you weren't a real Muslim if you don't wear a hijab. In fact I never passed any qualitative judgment on you at all.

With that said, if we are going to ignore the ahadith and the sunnah then there is really no way to point out to you the manner in which the wives of the prophet (saw) and the other believing women understood and implemented that ayat. I compared salaat to this issue earlier and you didn't seem to get it. Allah mentions that we should make salaat, He mentions the general timing and number of the salaat, but Allah does not make mention of the exact manner of the salaat. Using your logic, I could assume that salaat was not as important as it has been made out to be because of that. If Allah wanted us to make salaat so bad and it's such a big deal, wouldn't it have been better for Allah to have explicitly stated what we should exactly do in the salaat so that there be no possible way of confusion? However Allah did not include explicit detail on the manner of salaat. He did however teach rasulullah (saw) how to exactly make salaat and from there we learn what we are to do exactly. In the same manner Allah has instructed modesty not only in behavior but in dress as well. When the ayat about drawing your outer garments all over your juyubihinna was revealed, the women began to cut pieces of their lower garments and cover their faces with it. Other women began to drape their chador over their heads and bring it over their bosoms. Rasulullah was well aware of this and had it been a wrong interpretation he would have said something about that. He would have corrected them, but he didn't. His silence was an approval of that implementation of the ayat in question.

Again though, after all of that you do what you feel is in your own best interest. I can't prove anything to you with the requisite in place that the relevant ayats not be used. Even if I could use them, I am unable to convince you of something that Allah's word cannot convince you of. Who's speech is better than Allah's? No one's, least of all mine.

I'm sorry that my words come off as condescending. I'm not that type of person. It's just that in my experience when Muslims can only find confusion in issues that are clear and have been settled a long time ago, I find that it is because they don't want to do whatever it is they're confused about. I may be wrong about that when it comes to you, because I don't know you from jump, but that's what my spidey-senses tell me. From the few posts I have read of yours it is clear to me that you really don't want to wear a headscarf because you feel that modesty as Islam has described it can be achieved without it. Okay. Fair enough. I don't know why you donned it in the first place, but maybe you ought to revisit that.
 

Badran

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I am pretty sure Hijab and Headscarf is the samething...

As i know it, the headscarf is part of hijab, part of the veil.

Meaning that hijab is the whole dress which is promoted, the headscarf is the part which covers the hair. Hijab is the whole modest dress.
 

beenie

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I am pretty sure Hijab and Headscarf is the samething...

As i know it, the headscarf is part of hijab, part of the veil.

Meaning that hijab is the whole dress which is promoted, the headscarf is the part which covers the hair. Hijab is the whole modest dress.

see, neves is in Canada, and i'm in the US. to us, "hijab" refers to the headscarf...girls who wear it are "hijabis". we differentiate between the headscarf (hijab) and the abaya or jilbab. obviously there is a cultural difference of what hijab entails. :)

The Quran doesn't specify what kind of head covering. It could be a woman's hair, or it could be a hat like Christian women often used to wear. The Hijab is a cultural Arabic covering, but no where is the idea that Islam must be practised according to Arabia's culture, especially if it's supposed to be a universal religion, but instead I see a lot of Pan-Arabism in Islam.

i agree with this as well.

Ahh, I haven't been here for quite some time, so you are not familiar with my way of posting. I apologize for that, however with that said I'm not preaching to you. I never belittled you, and I never said you weren't a real Muslim if you don't wear a hijab. In fact I never passed any qualitative judgment on you at all.

With that said, if we are going to ignore the ahadith and the sunnah then there is really no way to point out to you the manner in which the wives of the prophet (saw) and the other believing women understood and implemented that ayat. I compared salaat to this issue earlier and you didn't seem to get it. Allah mentions that we should make salaat, He mentions the general timing and number of the salaat, but Allah does not make mention of the exact manner of the salaat. Using your logic, I could assume that salaat was not as important as it has been made out to be because of that. If Allah wanted us to make salaat so bad and it's such a big deal, wouldn't it have been better for Allah to have explicitly stated what we should exactly do in the salaat so that there be no possible way of confusion? However Allah did not include explicit detail on the manner of salaat. He did however teach rasulullah (saw) how to exactly make salaat and from there we learn what we are to do exactly. In the same manner Allah has instructed modesty not only in behavior but in dress as well. When the ayat about drawing your outer garments all over your juyubihinna was revealed, the women began to cut pieces of their lower garments and cover their faces with it. Other women began to drape their chador over their heads and bring it over their bosoms. Rasulullah was well aware of this and had it been a wrong interpretation he would have said something about that. He would have corrected them, but he didn't. His silence was an approval of that implementation of the ayat in question.

Again though, after all of that you do what you feel is in your own best interest. I can't prove anything to you with the requisite in place that the relevant ayats not be used. Even if I could use them, I am unable to convince you of something that Allah's word cannot convince you of. Who's speech is better than Allah's? No one's, least of all mine.

I'm sorry that my words come off as condescending. I'm not that type of person. It's just that in my experience when Muslims can only find confusion in issues that are clear and have been settled a long time ago, I find that it is because they don't want to do whatever it is they're confused about. I may be wrong about that when it comes to you, because I don't know you from jump, but that's what my spidey-senses tell me. From the few posts I have read of yours it is clear to me that you really don't want to wear a headscarf because you feel that modesty as Islam has described it can be achieved without it. Okay. Fair enough. I don't know why you donned it in the first place, but maybe you ought to revisit that.

that's what i'm trying to do. i was pretty much "scared" into doing it from a group that i studied Islam with. i jumped into it and stuck with it (gave it a try) for all these years. i've tried different styles, fabrics, fashions, etc. and i just struggle with it.

i disagree that hijab has been settled a long time though; perhaps it has been for you and those around you, but not amongst a lot of women i speak with. ;) again, i think different people struggle with different things, but the HIJAB is so visible that everyone sees it. no one would really know if i don't pray, fast, etc. do you see what i'm saying? one is no better or worse of a struggle, just more or less visible. i just feel like not wearing the hijab is considered a bigger "sin" than not doing other things...by OTHER people.

i'm sorry i misinterpreted your tone; it's hard to figure out tone with text and no face. :)
 

fullyveiled muslimah

Evil incarnate!
see, neves is in Canada, and i'm in the US. to us, "hijab" refers to the headscarf...girls who wear it are "hijabis". we differentiate between the headscarf (hijab) and the abaya or jilbab. obviously there is a cultural difference of what hijab entails. :)



i agree with this as well.



that's what i'm trying to do. i was pretty much "scared" into doing it from a group that i studied Islam with. i jumped into it and stuck with it (gave it a try) for all these years. i've tried different styles, fabrics, fashions, etc. and i just struggle with it.

i disagree that hijab has been settled a long time though; perhaps it has been for you and those around you, but not amongst a lot of women i speak with. ;) again, i think different people struggle with different things, but the HIJAB is so visible that everyone sees it. no one would really know if i don't pray, fast, etc. do you see what i'm saying? one is no better or worse of a struggle, just more or less visible. i just feel like not wearing the hijab is considered a bigger "sin" than not doing other things...by OTHER people.

i'm sorry i misinterpreted your tone; it's hard to figure out tone with text and no face. :)


Now here we come to the crux of the matter. You were scared into it. Okay, I get that. When you have been presented with something as deen, you tend to stick with it. Coming back through these old knowledges and making sure that they are in fact in step with actual Islam is a smart thing to do. I call it Islamic myth-busting. So it is natural to first ask the question of whether or not this thing is even part of Islam before committing myself to doing it. I understand and respect that and more Muslims need to do that. If I were you I would contact some reputable scholars in your area and have a sit down with them. Ask them to explain their position using Qur'an and the sunnah, so that you can have a clearer understanding of what is expected of you in this particular area. If you need to do this a couple times then so be it, for Allah has told us to "ask those who know", and the scholars (most of them anyways) know about this. A good scholar will not bristle at you asking him/her to explain this matter in detail to you. Insha Allah you will come away with the understanding of the issue of hijab and the ability and strength to follow through on it, or rather to continue it solely for the pleasure of Allah.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
Does it say anywhere in the Qur'an that women covered their faces, with veils or niqab?

Sorry, ignore my question. I didn't realize I was in the Same Faith section.
 

beenie

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Does it say anywhere in the Qur'an that women covered their faces, with veils or niqab?

not that i'm aware of. the niqab is explained in Hadith (and is not agreed upon universally), as is the hijab (headscarf).
 

gnostic

The Lost One
Thanks for answering my question anyway. I seriously did realize I was in a Same Faith thread. Here's some frubals. :yes:
 

Starsoul

Truth
That sickens me if it's true that people are being arrested for following their religion peacefully. As I've said I can see why a face veil might be a security lapse at someplace like an airport or government building (or something like that) but in all other cases that is utterly insane to deny that right.

To be honest, Islam is not entirely being followed by the Islamic govts. as yet, so just because one or another islamic named govt does something, it gets picked under the name of the religion despite the fact that,that thing is totally Un-Islamic.

And as for the identity issue is concerned, I thought a person's name used to be the hall mark of anyone's identity. If you dont know the name of a person or of his parent, you still dont know a person/ cant identify that person. Hijab, veil both are an Islamic symbol and both are said to be the attires that can be followed. Identitites can easily be verified by asking politely and incase of theft, what are the CCtv and fingerprints for? And to be honest, most dacoits did cover their faces even when the veil was not prescribed by Islam and just because all thieves and robbers do cover their faces, they wouldn't stop doing so even if the Uk police drafted a rule against that.

@UltraViolet

Its true that women look more alluring and beautiful in a hijab , must say you finally have reached a deeper understanding of Islam in one small aspect. God probably knew that a veil added to the charm of a woman and also added to her protection, thats why the hijab. But, a woman's beauty is only for a man, not a woman in Islam, so stear clear of that misconception.

I dont want to say this, but a long span of observation has given me a clue about the prevalence of Homosexuals /bisexuals in the western society. It appears that men who come to pair with men seem to be constantly coming from backgrounds of excessive intoxication,(of all kinds) abuse, and a long history of excessive womanizing which makes them totally de-sensitized to women, and hence their natural curiosity for women disappears and they finally hit their dark side which makes them indulge in sexual behaviour with men. Its unnatural and no life can come out of it.

Also, homosexuality seems to be the bi-product of men getting de-sensitized by women because they dress up little in the west and its not that difficult finding the ones who are ever so willing to undress. Men are biologically wired to feel 'sexually excited by even a single full glance of a woman' and that wire has sadly been stolen from westren men. All men admit they like to see women, and they dont like it when they cant see much of them, but they do have respect for those who cover themselves, even if that respect means not trying to hit on that woman. Nobody can put a barrier to ones thoughts but there is a stimulus for everything. If you see violence, you will feel sad or pain for the innocent, likewise if you see an attractive woman, you are bound to feel something for her, even if its just appreciation for her looks, ( if you have not been de-sensitized by having looked at too many of them)

As for women, there is a long history of growing mis-trust among men and women in the western society, even if they have lived together as a couple before marriage, there is an alarming rate of divorce, just a couple of years after the marriage. If living together for so many years was enough to ensure a steady lifelong relationship, more than half of the American and European couples would not have been divorced several times. And, women in the western society, although seem to enjoy their independence and the way they dress up and mate with men at leisure, there is a large proportion of them who do not see themselves 'fit' for the men of the society either because they dont appear attractive Because better looking women are available for men, or the fact that they have been severly abused, used and emotionally tortured by men in their lives in the past and hence they start feeling secure only in romantic relationship with women. It is unnatural and no life can come out of it too.

And Lastly, Veil is a very beautiful thing too for Muslim women. Although they do it as a commandment of Allah, it has many unlisted & unnoticed benefits. Search for any skin consultant’s advice or an independent research, you’ll find everybody almost condemning the sun rays for the female skin.
There are innumerable skin disorder caused just by being in the sun, and skin cancers are the gravest of them. You must have heard Dermatologists all over the world, religiously preach to women to " Slather the sunscreen on your faces! never step out of the house without it! put layers of it on your skin so that the barrier between the skin and the sun is almost MECHANICAL.’ And when Muslim women wear a veil, the whole world starts agitating over it calling it a symbol of oppression. I Have not yet known a single drawback of a veil, so if veil was to be tested by science, it would come off with flying colors :)
And finally, I being in the medical profession, have seen a number of women who wear the veil and those who do not. Its startling to see the skin differences between the two.
Those who use the veil have a STRIKINGLY fresh, glowing , moisturized, healthy and shinning skin. Not to mention, that women who have observed the veil for most of their lives have very few wrinkles after 40s and their skin ages very slow and pleasantly.​
You must know that sun rays are very damaging and extremely catalystic for pre-mature wrinkles, pre-mature skin aging, sagging of the skin and age spots.​
It’s a blessing that veiled women do NOT have to go through the expensive youth retaining magic potions, botox injections and surgical/laser skin uplifting. They remain super young for a much longer time than the frequently exposed skin cases.​
Hope you find a reason to agree somewhere :)

 
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